The Tank Thread

[Diesel]

27 minutes ago, AHF said:

The Lakers drafted the following guys in the lottery - Magic Johnson, James Worthy, Kobe Bryant.  They don't have any rings without those guys in the last 30 years.  

Well, the NBA draft lottery didn't start until 1985. 

Magic = 1979

Worthy = 1982.

The first big gift of the Lottery was Patrick Ewing.  Whose Knicks never won a championship.

Kobe wasn't drafted by the Lakers.   The Lakers traded for him.  So none of the Lakers Success was due to the Lottery.

[AHF]

Just now, Diesel said:

Well, the NBA draft lottery didn't start until 1985. 

Magic = 1979

Worthy = 1982.

The first big gift of the Lottery was Patrick Ewing.  Whose Knicks never won a championship.

Kobe wasn't drafted by the Lakers.   The Lakers traded for him.  So none of the Lakers Success was due to the Lottery.

I don't see what difference it makes what the system is.  It is being able to get those top talents near the top of the draft.  If the lottery went away tomorrow it would only enhance the effectiveness of tanking.

The Lakers absolutely drafted Kobe.  They traded for the pick and directed Charlotte to take Kobe.  It is the exact same as them trading for the pick used to take James Worthy or Boston trading for picks from the Nets.

[JTB]

Are we all in agreement that you have to have a primary scorer to build around? Or is it just me?

i don’t think you can build a team successfully without that scorer in place . This hawks team has so many holes it’s incredible 

 

schlenk full of shit with that 2-3 year plan talk he was doing last off season 

[KB21]

13 minutes ago, JTB said:

Are we all in agreement that you have to have a primary scorer to build around? Or is it just me?

i don’t think you can build a team successfully without that scorer in place . This hawks team has so many holes it’s incredible 

 

schlenk full of shit with that 2-3 year plan talk he was doing last off season 

I believe you need some players who can create their own shot, but I don't buy into this idea that you have to have a primary scorer.  I prefer team play where the players share the basketball and look for good shots.

[AHF]

29 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I believe you need some players who can create their own shot, but I don't buy into this idea that you have to have a primary scorer.  I prefer team play where the players share the basketball and look for good shots.

Yeah - the ideal is like the GS Warriors where they don't have a "primary" scorer - they have several guys who are talented enough to be "primary" scorers in a lesser system playing in a team system that optimizes good shots.

[Lurker]

I just wish we all would come to the conclusion that Gearon's power play started the roll onto this...

[KB21]

22 minutes ago, AHF said:

Yeah - the ideal is like the GS Warriors where they don't have a "primary" scorer - they have several guys who are talented enough to be "primary" scorers in a lesser system playing in a team system that optimizes good shots.

SA Spurs as well.   This is also the style of play the Hawks achieved during the 60 win season.  It's all about being over yourself as a player and putting the team first.

[JTB]

22 minutes ago, KB21 said:

SA Spurs as well.   This is also the style of play the Hawks achieved during the 60 win season.  It's all about being over yourself as a player and putting the team first.

Y'all are missing the point! Im not saying I want a selfish guy to build around but there is clear need that we need at least that one guy that can go and get his bucket by creating his own shot when need be and won't be denied...sometimes teams just end up in rough spots and look to their star to bail them out! Perhaps the warriors of course are too talented to really see such a thing happening but Ive seen Duncan not iso but lets just say "go to work" to seal his team a win.

You can list the warriors and spurs unselfish play all day but they still hand "go-to-stars" who could get their points in Curry, Durant, Klay, Duncan...and many times Ginoboli & Parker was beast scorers too.

One of the main issues with the hawks franchise and their history is that its been a long challenge to solidify that star player who is usually a go to scorer that can create his own shot.

 

Im not trying to be stubborn but its hard to convince anyone that this team will be heading in the right direction without a scorer (or star or create your own shot guy ...whatever you want to use). Dennis is good but he can't be the main scorer and unfortunately the top scorers in this draft possibly won't be available if we get screwed in the draft lottery and pick late.

 

We need that scorer in place and after that happens the other players we get via free agency, draft, or trade will feed off of that. A perfect situation for the hawks would be keeping Dennis and drafting Ayton. 

 

Your not going to win or even come close to winning in the NBA league without having guys that can flat out just put the ball in the goal...Im not looking for the impossible and hoping for a curry and Durant...while that would be nice ALL Im asking for from the NBA-GODS is can we PLEASE get a Joe Johnson and Sap type scorers at the same damn time for once!

Edited March 8, 2018 by JTB

[davis171]

So the hawks are going to have 20-30 million in cap space this offseason it looks like barring trades (I would be surprised if trades don't come but we will see this offseason). Who are some of the guys you all want the Hawks to target? I'm thinking guys like Seth Curry, Mario Hezonja, Jerami Grant, etc that maybe a fresh start may show they have another gear with a chip on their shoulder.

[davis171]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

I believe you need some players who can create their own shot, but I don't buy into this idea that you have to have a primary scorer.  I prefer team play where the players share the basketball and look for good shots.

Funny coming from a guy that is super high on Young that has one of (he maybe #1) usages rates of all time in college basketball.

[KB21]

1 hour ago, davis171 said:

Funny coming from a guy that is super high on Young that has one of (he maybe #1) usages rates of all time in college basketball.

He also has one of the highest assists rates of all time in college basketball.

[davis171]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

He also has one of the highest assists rates of all time in college basketball.

Assists are inflated due to the usage rate lol.

[davis171]

I'm not knocking Trae Young just the offense is running through him wherever he goes and he will dominate the ball there. It is just the type of player he is and tbh that is what you are drafting if you select him.

[cam1218]

Even with the tank going on I still don’t watch much college basketball. As a GT and KSU (Kennesaw) fan, my interest is usually gone pretty quickly. I’m excited for this tournament and the ongoing conference tournaments though. I think you learn a lot about how good these guys are when they are playing one game playoffs. I’m watching Oklahoma now and Young seems to be getting a few assists, but he took a horrendous three and threw an ill-advised lob.  

[davis171]

21 minutes ago, cam1218 said:

Even with the tank going on I still don’t watch much college basketball. As a GT and KSU (Kennesaw) fan, my interest is usually gone pretty quickly. I’m excited for this tournament and the ongoing conference tournaments though. I think you learn a lot about how good these guys are when they are playing one game playoffs. I’m watching Oklahoma now and Young seems to be getting a few assists, but he took a horrendous three and threw an ill-advised lob.  

Young definitely has a green light as soon as he crosses half court. I could see him infuriating Bud at times (Which maybe really funny to watch). I don't think Bud would like the pick if we took him especially in the top 5. He just is way to ball dominant for Bud's system imo but I've been wrong about prospects before. It isn't even the player either I really like him, but something about a guard who has to have the ball in his hands all the time to be effective doesn't rub me well and idk how well it produces championships. It will come down to him on the offensive side of the ball because the athleticism and frame aren't there to ever be more than an average defender.

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

I don't see what difference it makes what the system is.  It is being able to get those top talents near the top of the draft.  If the lottery went away tomorrow it would only enhance the effectiveness of tanking.

The Lakers absolutely drafted Kobe.  They traded for the pick and directed Charlotte to take Kobe.  It is the exact same as them trading for the pick used to take James Worthy or Boston trading for picks from the Nets.

Well the draft came about because the old system was unfair to teams and teams like the Lakers always ended up with top picks.  The "Coin Flip" system guarantee a bad team in a conference a first or 2nd pick no matter how much better it was that the 2nd and 3rd worse teams in the other conference.  Moreover, there was more rounds to sift through so it was hard for teams not to get enough talent to create a mediocre team. 

For the tankers...  Answer me this:

 

Who is the transcendant talent that we are tanking for in this draft?  What is the  Iverson, Shaq, Kobe that we're getting?

[KB21]

Young is a high usage player for Oklahoma because he has to be.  When he played in the EYBL this past summer on the same team as Michael Porter Jr, Trae wasn't this ball dominant, high usage player.  

[LucastheThird]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Who is the transcendant talent that we are tanking for in this draft?  What is the  Iverson, Shaq, Kobe that we're getting?

Marvin Bagley III

[davis171]

45 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

Marvin Bagley III

lol hate to break it to you he is plummeting down draft boards. He doesn't fit the hawks (or the nba game for that matter) at all either he isn't a center and can't protect the rim and neither can Collins so good luck playing them together. I think Collins can be a future all star I like Bagley as a prospect please not ATL I'd rather have Ayton, Doncic, JJJ, Bamba, Porter, Young over him. If somehow we are picking 7th (it is scary possible) I'd be cool with Bagley.

Edited March 8, 2018 by davis171

[KB21]

I could make a very strong argument to take Wendell Carter Jr over Marvin Bagley III.  He'd be a much better fit alongside John Collins and has the length to play center.