The Tank Thread

[KB21]

25 minutes ago, Dragitoff said:

You say that, but you have zero clue other than your personal bias that's "the plan".  I HATED the rebuild.  I HATED the tank last year.  I'm glad last season is over because that puts us 1 season closer to being back to relevance but hopefully it puts us closer to winning a championship.  

I grew up a Braves fan.  They were HORRIBLE for years, but they started building depth and accumulating quality talent from within their system. Once they had those players on the cusp of being really good, they signed veteran players to mentor and contribute. They turned the franchise around for a decade.  They finally hit a point where they had to start over again and I believe this is the first year of another long run of really good Braves teams.  

I hope the Hawks can win more championships than my beloved Braves did during the 90's; however, continuing to trust that you'd luck up hitting striking gold on bargain FA contracts and turning careers around, is just as risky as the draft development.  We had a year where everything hit pretty darn near perfect and the Hawks won 60 games, but realized what the rest of the NBA knows.  You don't win it all in today's NBA without superstar talent.  Atlanta isn't drawing superstars even when we won 60 games.  They certainly aren't doing it now.  Prior to burner gate, there was a lot of talk of top FA's wanting to go to Philly.  You're so against the "losing culture" they built there, but look how passionate their fanbase is.  Look how excited those young players are!  

They lacked the experience this year on the big stage, but they earned a lot of experience failing.  I see them being stronger for it next year.  

I can't help it if Philly's fanbase is stupid.

[Dragitoff]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

I can't help it if Philly's fanbase is stupid.

Arrogance is not only a sign of insecurity, it's a sign of immaturity. Mature and fully-realized persons can get their points across, even emphatically without demeaning or intimidating others.

[deester11]

21 minutes ago, Dragitoff said:

KB, I love you bro, but why don't you go become a Warriors fan or something?  A true fan supports their team even when they disagree with the decisions.  They aren't combative with every decision made and constantly berating of management and ownership.  

Dude lives to whine about the "tank.". He's already been asked this question on every page in the "tank" thread.  It's easier to beat that horse I guess...

On topic. It's almost here and I'm hoping for Doncic as I think Bagley is a goner.  Doncic was my original pick before I switched it 100 times.  The only picks I'm not ready to hear are JJJ and Young at 3.   Like Supes info though...

[Dragitoff]

Just now, deester11 said:

Dude lives to whine about the "tank.". He's already been asked this question on every page in the "tank" thread.  It's easier to beat that horse I guess...

On topic. It's almost here and I'm hoping for Doncic as I think Bagley is a goner.  Doncic was my original pick before I switched it 100 times.  The only picks I'm not ready to hear are JJJ and Young at 3.   Like Supes info though...

I question the validity of it, but I'm down for it if it's true.  

[warcore]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

I don’t care about long term goals.  I only care about doing everything I can to win now.  

That's what I thought... Just making sure. 

[KB21]

31 minutes ago, Dragitoff said:

KB, I love you bro, but why don't you go become a Warriors fan or something?  A true fan supports their team even when they disagree with the decisions.  They aren't combative with every decision made and constantly berating of management and ownership.  

So, you can't disagree with the direction the idiot GM decided to take the organization in and stay a fan of that organization?

I don't know how it can be said any differently.  Tanking only guarantees losing.  That is it.  I don't want to lose.  I hate losing.  We are looking at a sub 20 win season coming up because we decided to tank, and there is no hope of it getting better anytime soon.  After a tanking season, we are getting bailed out by the Sacramento Kings from making a grave mistake in this draft by drafting Marvin Bagley III.  Thank goodness they are a poorly run organization, or else our poorly run organization would have made a decision based on ticket sales rather than basketball.

[Dragitoff]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

So, you can't disagree with the direction the idiot GM decided to take the organization in and stay a fan of that organization?

I don't know how it can be said any differently.  Tanking only guarantees losing.  That is it.  I don't want to lose.  I hate losing.  We are looking at a sub 20 win season coming up because we decided to tank, and there is no hope of it getting better anytime soon.  After a tanking season, we are getting bailed out by the Sacramento Kings from making a grave mistake in this draft by drafting Marvin Bagley III.  Thank goodness they are a poorly run organization, or else our poorly run organization would have made a decision based on ticket sales rather than basketball.

Why are you even a fan?  You obviously dislike our organization's direction and leadership to the point of what appears to be extreme hatred for Schlenk.  You make disparaging remarks about everything within the organization.  So I ask again, why are you even a fan?  Other than trolling, I can't see why you'd still call yourself a fan if you disagree with everything the Hawks are doing, who they hire, draft, etc...  You dislike and disagree with other fans who disagree with you and continuously assert your "superior mind" so again, why are you even a fan?  

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, Dragitoff said:

Why are you even a fan?  You obviously dislike our organization's direction and leadership to the point of what appears to be extreme hatred for Schlenk.  You make disparaging remarks about everything within the organization.  So I ask again, why are you even a fan?  Other than trolling, I can't see why you'd still call yourself a fan if you disagree with everything the Hawks are doing, who they hire, draft, etc...  You dislike and disagree with other fans who disagree with you and continuously assert your "superior mind" so again, why are you even a fan?  

Probably because there is a small percentage of me that actually believes they will accidentally do something right after making the atrocious mistake of tanking......like signing a Derrick Favors instead of using cap space to absorb a bad contract or taking and keeping Luka Doncic or Jaren Jackson Jr, the two best players in this draft.  Unfortunately, neither one of those players is going to shorten this losing curve the Hawks are on without adding veteran talent to the team.

[Dragitoff]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Probably because there is a small percentage of me that actually believes they will accidentally do something right after making the atrocious mistake of tanking......like signing a Derrick Favors instead of using cap space to absorb a bad contract or taking and keeping Luka Doncic or Jaren Jackson Jr, the two best players in this draft.  Unfortunately, neither one of those players is going to shorten this losing curve the Hawks are on without adding veteran talent to the team.

 

 

Dude, you lose any credibility with me pining for Derrick Favors as the savior of the franchise.  

Have fun in your misery bro.  I ain't mad atcha.  

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, Dragitoff said:

Dude, you lose any credibility with me pining for Derrick Favors as the savior of the franchise.  

Have fun in your misery bro.  I ain't mad atcha.  

I never said Favors was a franchise savior.  He is clearly a player that can help a team win though, and that's what I'm interested in.  Chandler Parsons isn't helping this team win.  He's just dead money.  Kenneth Faried isn't helping this team win.  Joakim Noah isn't helping this team win.

[KB21]

Quote

 

Great teams who get there, not by way of the draft, but by being so smart to sign all star players:

1st requirement - - Their city MUST be a desireable destination.  Atlanta just doesn't qualify.  We all know this.  Therefore we strike out on this point.

If a team has great all star players, other great players will want to go there so they can play with them.  Our example here would be King James.  We know that players are willing to sign for less to play with him because he can lead them to the playoffs.  Hawks strike out here.  No great all star.

Two down and one to go if we are to score in this inning.  The draft is up.  Our tank has brought us to this position and we hope that this is our golden opportunity to grab that great player that others will want to play with because of who he is.  We have four opportunities this year to get this right.  Four draft picks.  We have extra cap space to relieve the pressure on those opponents hurting.  We hope to gain something here.

A newly rebuilt stadium, a completely re built team with a new head coach and his new assistants. 

 

Nothing good comes from losing.  Absolutely nothing, and no one will convince me otherwise.  I also consider it a myth that Atlanta is not considered to be a destination.  They definitely aren't now, because free agents do not sign with teams who like to intentionally lose games with no pathway for it to improve anytime soon.

I've got to go over how this is going to work out as a reminder:

Team tanks and intentionally loses games.  

Team gets a high draft pick and uses it on a young player.

Because he was a high draft pick, young player plays more than he should.

The result is more losing and another high draft pick.

Team uses high draft pick on young player.

Because he was a high draft pick, young player plays more than he should.

The result is more losing and another high draft pick.

Rinse and repeat.  

[KB21]

Quote

I'm sorry but this is categorically not true.  The best teams in the NBA, year in and year out win through scouting...buying low, selling high.  You get those higher picks with shrewd deals when trading while keeping your better, younger talent. Knowing when to say goodbye.

This is correct.  You win by buying undervalued assets and maintaining your competitiveness.  This is what Danny Ferry did.  Paul Millsap was an undervalued asset.  DeMarre Carroll was an undervalued asset.  At the time he was signed, Kent Bazemore was an undervalued asset.  As a result, Danny Ferry's Hawks never bottomed the roster out from a talent standpoint, and because of that, they got to 60 wins a lot faster than the Hawks will with the path they have chosen under the idiot Schlenk.  

[thecampster]

13 hours ago, Dragitoff said:

Arrogance is not only a sign of insecurity, it's a sign of immaturity.

 

Mature and fully-realized persons can get their points across, even emphatically without demeaning or intimidating others.

You take the fun out of everything. Next you're going to tell me I have say please and thank you....grumble, grumble, whine, moan 

[thecampster]

29 minutes ago, KB21 said:

This is correct.  You win by buying undervalued assets and maintaining your competitiveness.  This is what Danny Ferry did.  Paul Millsap was an undervalued asset.  DeMarre Carroll was an undervalued asset.  At the time he was signed, Kent Bazemore was an undervalued asset.  As a result, Danny Ferry's Hawks never bottomed the roster out from a talent standpoint, and because of that, they got to 60 wins a lot faster than the Hawks will with the path they have chosen under the idiot Schlenk.  

buy low, sell high, scout, scout, scout....San Antonio formula since before man discovered fire.

[h4wkfan]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

buy low, sell high, scout, scout, scout....San Antonio formula since before man discovered fire.

Mixed in with a couple of HOF lottery picks, yeah it works. 

[KB21]

Just now, h4wkfan said:

Mixed in with a couple of HOF lottery picks, yeah it works. 

Those lottery picks came in an era of drafting where you took seasoned talent that could come in and help you win immediately..  They didn't take some raw 19 year old, fluffed up AAU product who has no clue how to play the game.  

[thecampster]

3 minutes ago, h4wkfan said:

Mixed in with a couple of HOF lottery picks, yeah it works. 

that would be the scout, scout, scout part.

Manu Ginobilli - 57th pick

Tony Parker - 28th pick

Luis Scola - 55th pick

Leandro Barbosa - 28th pick

Tiago Splitter - 28th pick

Goran Dragic 45th pick

George Hill 26th pick

 

Lottery picks since 1998 - 0

1997 - they drafted Tim Duncan #1 overall...because David Robinson missed 76 games due to injuries, Chuck Person missed the entire year with back issues and the team lost over 300 player games total to injury.

You have to go back to 1987, 1988, 1989 to see them in the lottery. Their lowest pick during this time other than their 4 total lottery appearances in 30 years...18.  Yes, this team managed to draft lower than 18 only 4 times in 30 years but have been perennial contenders.  Scout, scout, scout. buy low, sell high.

[nathan2331]

I'm sorry but this is categorically not true.  The best teams in the NBA, year in and year out win through scouting...buying low, selling high.  You get those higher picks with shrewd deals when trading while keeping your better, younger talent. Knowing when to say goodbye.

This is correct.  You win by buying undervalued assets and maintaining your competitiveness.  This is what Danny Ferry did.  Paul Millsap was an undervalued asset.  DeMarre Carroll was an undervalued asset.  At the time he was signed, Kent Bazemore was an undervalued asset.  As a result, Danny Ferry's Hawks never bottomed the roster out from a talent standpoint, and because of that, they got to 60 wins a lot faster than the Hawks will with the path they have chosen under the idiot Schlenk.  

We got 60 wins and got swept in the ECF. Tried again next year, after failing to improve the team because we didn't have assets to trade for anyone and proceeded to get swept again. That team hit it's peak, it wasn't worth keeping because we'd never been able to beat LeBron. Maybe if Ferry wasn't fired, we could've tried something else, but that didn't happen. Most of the best players in the league go in the lottery, that is a fact of the NBA. As a franchise that's struggled to attract top free agents, it's time to go back to rebuilding after being in the playoffs for 10 years. We've been pretenders the whole time, we never had a chance to win a championship.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

This is correct.  You win by buying undervalued assets and maintaining your competitiveness.  This is what Danny Ferry did.  Paul Millsap was an undervalued asset.  DeMarre Carroll was an undervalued asset.  At the time he was signed, Kent Bazemore was an undervalued asset.  As a result, Danny Ferry's Hawks never bottomed the roster out from a talent standpoint, and because of that, they got to 60 wins a lot faster than the Hawks will with the path they have chosen under the idiot Schlenk.  

We got 60 wins and got swept in the ECF. Tried again next year, after failing to improve the team because we didn't have assets to trade for anyone and proceeded to get swept again. That team hit it's peak, it wasn't worth keeping because we'd never been able to beat LeBron. Maybe if Ferry wasn't fired, we could've tried something else, but that didn't happen. Most of the best players in the league go in the lottery, that is a fact of the NBA. As a franchise that's struggled to attract top free agents, it's time to go back to rebuilding after being in the playoffs for 10 years. We've been pretenders the whole time, we never had a chance to win a championship.

....and now we definitely will not have a chance to win a championship, because this team is so far away from the playoffs that you can just imagine that they will never get back to that level again.  At some point, regression to the mean will happen like it did in Philadelphia this year, but it isn't going to be because the Hawks decided to intentionally lose games, which is just the most atrocious thing I can think of when it comes to sports and competition.  I put tanking at the same level as abortion with just how vile and inhumane it is as a strategy.  

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

....and now we definitely will not have a chance to win a championship, because this team is so far away from the playoffs that you can just imagine that they will never get back to that level again.  At some point, regression to the mean will happen like it did in Philadelphia this year, but it isn't going to be because the Hawks decided to intentionally lose games, which is just the most atrocious thing I can think of when it comes to sports and competition.  I put tanking at the same level as abortion with just how vile and inhumane it is as a strategy.  

There is always the luck factor.  Like the San Antonio falling into Tim Duncan or Chicago doing their due diligence with Pippin and Grant.