The Tank Thread

[KB21]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

You realize most 1st round picks aren't starters, right?  You give me your list of 30 starters from that draft class and then let's talk.

There may only be 7 legit starters from that draft class.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

You realize most 1st round picks aren't starters, right?  You give me your list of 30 starters from that draft class and then let's talk.

He was never going to be starter quality!  Most 1st rounders are assumed to be starters some day.

[buckyboy2]

32 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Draymond green had 9 blocks total his freshman year

And NOONE projected him a a great defender on the next level.

From draft express..

"Unfortunately Greens' defensive deficiencies have become even more pronounced as a senior" He is too small to guard elite post players, and lacks the lateral quickness to defend perimeter players, even face up power forwards at the NCAA level. While his effort  and aggressiveness will never be questioned, it is difficult to project him as an adequate NBA defender at this time"...lol..

Edited April 4, 2018 by buckyboy2

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, DBac said:

WCJ not a lottery pick? He was considered a potential lottery pick before Bagley committed to Duke. wtf.. He and Duke even played better in Bagley's absence tbh.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't touch him in the lottery...Outside the lottery yes

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, buckyboy2 said:

And NOONE projected him a a great defender on the next level.

From draft express..

"Unfortunately Greens' defensive deficiencies have become even more pronounced as a senior" He is too small to guard elite post players, and lacks the lateral quickness to defend perimeter players, even face up power forwards at the NCAA level. While his effort  and aggressiveness will never be questioned, it is difficult to project him as an adequate NBA defender at this time"...lol..

Excellent!!!  Anymore question @KB21?

[buckyboy2]

17 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Then, apparently Wiggins is a 2nd round talent then, because he has a career negative VORP at this point.  Sullinger has the 11th highest VORP of his draft class.

lol. Wiggins..Your everyday punching bag...I hated Wiggins coming out..

Edited April 4, 2018 by buckyboy2

[KB21]

1 minute ago, buckyboy2 said:

And NOONE projected him a a great defender on the next level.

From draft express..

"Unfortunately Greens' defensive deficiencies have become even more pronounced as a senior" He is too small to guard elite post players, and lacks the lateral quickness to defend perimeter players, even face up power forwards at the NCAA level. While his effort  and aggressiveness will never be questioned, it is difficult to project him as an adequate NBA defender at this time"...

Green had a 7.3 DBPM as a senior at Michigan State, so yes.  I did project him to be a good defender in the NBA.  Now, I didn't anticipate that he would be one of the best defensive bigs in basketball, but I did anticipate that he would be good.  In fact, this is what I said about him before that draft in reference to where the Hawks were picking:

Quote

They will definitely like some more than others. I don’t know that they will openly talk about who they like in this way though. I would love for this to be true. Draymond Green has many of the qualities this team desperately needs relative to his basketball IQ and leadership ability. He has three strong qualities that have a very high correlation relative to transferring from college to the pros. Those qualities are his rebounding (which is third among power forwards and first among small forwards), his passing ability (very high assists rate and assists per field goal attempt for his position), and his shooting ability (34-36% on threes).

When you break down his offensive game, about 53% of his offense is on two point shots. He has an excellent mid range game. About 20% comes from three point shots, and about 20% from free throws. So, overall, his offense is really spaced out.

I’m still in the process of evaluating these prospects for myself, and I am taking more of an analytical approach than a traditional scouting approach with these players. Right now, my two favorites are Draymond Green and Jae Crowder. I’m trying to study Royce White a little more as well. I have to admit that I am intrigued with a guy who leads his team in points, assists, rebounds, steals, and blocks while having a relatively low usage rate for a leading scorer. A couple of other guys on my list are Will Barton (best rebounding guard in the draft) and Jared Cunningham (good shooter with very high free throw rate).

Posted  by KB21  on Jun 20, 2012 | 2:18 PM

 

[KB21]

 

3 minutes ago, buckyboy2 said:

lol. Wiggins..Your everyday punching bag...I hated Wiggins coming out..

Sure you did.

[DBac]

4 minutes ago, buckyboy2 said:

And NOONE projected him a a great defender on the next level.

From draft express..

"Unfortunately Greens' defensive deficiencies have become even more pronounced as a senior" He is too small to guard elite post players, and lacks the lateral quickness to defend perimeter players, even face up power forwards at the NCAA level. While his effort  and aggressiveness will never be questioned, it is difficult to project him as an adequate NBA defender at this time"...lol..

That's a miss by them aided in part by the league quickly changing to this smallball era. Green's defensive numbers were fantastic his senior year. 

[buckyboy2]

36 minutes ago, KB21 said:

You add a rim protector to play beside him, which is what I advocate with John Collins and pairing him with JJJ.

Rimprotector is so overated these days...For example. Roy Hibbert was a "rim protector" but soft Al Horford used to take his lunch. lol 

[buckyboy2]

17 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I find it hilarious that y'all bag on Collin's defense even though his defensive rating is better than Paul Millsap's rating this year.  LOL!!!!

And theyre the numbers mean everything guys...lol

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Green had a 7.3 DBPM as a senior at Michigan State, so yes.  I did project him to be a good defender in the NBA.  Now, I didn't anticipate that he would be one of the best defensive bigs in basketball, but I did anticipate that he would be good.  In fact, this is what I said about him before that draft in reference to where the Hawks were picking:

 

What about his Freshman year??? Would you have projected the same after his freshman year???  So you are saying players actually get better on defense???  Bite your tongue!!!

[KB21]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

What about his Freshman year??? Would you have projected the same after his freshman year???  So you are saying players actually get better on defense???  Bite your tongue!!!

They did not calculate DBPM for Draymond's freshman and sophomore seasons, but his defensive win shares were high in both years.  

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, buckyboy2 said:

And theyre the numbers mean everything guys...lol

Paul Millsap in only 34 games has the 8th highest defensive RPM of all the power forwards in basketball at 2.48.  John Collins is 47th at 0.34, which isn't terrible and is higher than I thought it would be.  

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

They did not calculate DBPM for Draymond's freshman and sophomore seasons, but his defensive win shares were high in both years.  

How high?  By the way Wendell Carter's DWS 2.3...What was Bagley's DWS?

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

How high?  By the way Wendell Carter's DWS 2.3...What was Bagley's DWS?

Also I looked at Jaren Jackson's DWS and thought that I was going find some awesome number...It was 2.2!  By the way. Bagley's DWS was 2.1

[buckyboy2]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

 

Sure you did.

 

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

How high?  By the way Wendell Carter's DWS 2.3...What was Bagley's DWS?

2.1

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Also I looked at Jaren Jackson's DWS and thought that I was going find some awesome number...It was 2.2!  By the way. Bagley's DWS was 2.1

Cant wait till see what "numbers" he posts next. lmao

[JSmooooove]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

I think this is where the disconnect lies.   Those teams that tank by cleaning house never get to championship contention.   Those teams that tank by cleaning house is a long term mess job.  It's fools gold and you can't bring up an example to prove your case.  But there are 100s that prove KBs case.  That's where the statement that you're doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same result... failure. 

The owners don't care... They will save money. 

The GM thinks he's right.

The fanbase is being fooled. 

Yeah I can - OKC. 

Read my other post about the history of Atlanta sports and you'll understand why most of us would rather try for something different then stay on the mediocre treadmill.

If your life revolves around Hawks basketball, I can see why you're so upset since these games can't be fun to watch. Personally, I enjoy lots of other things in life and am willing to sacrifice not making the playoffs in order to have a better chance at the championship down the road.

[AHF]

26 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

He was never going to be starter quality!  Most 1st rounders are assumed to be starters some day.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jared-sullinger

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2012/05/2012-nba-draft-trail-blazers-jared-sullinger-poll.html

Quote

The first draft prospect we'll take a look at is Ohio State power forward/center Jared Sullinger. Sullinger is an early-entry candidate, leaving the Buckeyes after an impressive two-year career.

He was a consensus first team All-American both seasons, leading Ohio State in scoring in rebounding and recording 35 double-doubles in 74 career games. He was second in the Big 10 in rebounding (9.2), third in scoring (17.5) and fourth in field goal percentage (51.9) in 2011-12.

Sullinger is projected as a Top 10 pick by most mock drafts, and is slated at No. 6 to the Blazers in the latest DraftExpress.com mock draft.

Jonathan Givony, DraftExpress.com: The Trail Blazers have been looking for a strong interior option to pair with LaMarcus Aldridge for quite some time, and this draft will finally give them an opportunity to do so. Going into next season with only Kurt Thomas and Aldridge under contact, Jared Sullinger certainly appears to be an attractive option here, as his skill set compliments what they already have.

David Aldridge, NBA.com: "Everybody is wondering if he can be the next Zach Randolph," a Pacific Division executive said. "Sullinger has some of those attributes. He has soft hands. He'll pass to the right guy. He's going to work down there and try to catch it. The problem is, can he get his shot off? I know he can make the college three, but I don't know if he wants to hang his hat on that to become an NBA player. But he does have that skill."

Chad Ford, ESPN.com (Insider): Will his game translate to the next level? There is a major debate going on among scouts on that question. Few scouts will go so far as to compare him to Kevin Love (another undersized big man who struggled with conditioning). Love is more skilled, plays harder, is a little bit bigger and is a little bit better as an athlete. Some look to Zach Randolph and see a comp. Others see Paul Millsap. If he's any of these players, he's worthy of a top-10, maybe top-5 pick in the upcoming draft. 

https://www.sbnation.com/nba-draft/2012/5/31/3054408/nba-mock-draft-2012-anthony-davis-hornets-wizards

Quote

7. GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS: JARED SULLINGER

Also known as "better David Lee." Sullinger would give the Warriors depth up front (a foreign concept to long-suffering Golden State fans) and would certainly make tanking the end of the season well worth it. Note: I see you, Andre Drummond. I see you and I'm not ignoring it. It's just ... you know ...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1128388-2012-nba-mock-draft-jared-sullinger-and-players-that-will-drop-in-first-round

Quote

9. Utah Jazz (via Golden State): Jared Sullinger, Ohio State

Sullinger is perhaps the most polished and NBA-ready player in the 2012 draft. This fits well with a young Utah team that is ready to start making some playoff runs and is hopefully done with the lottery after this season.

 

http://www.espn.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/8069495/2012-nba-draft-docs-medically-red-flag-jared-sullinger-sources-say

Quote

Sullinger, who is projected to be a lottery pick in the draft on June 28, underwent a series of medical tests at the draft combine a week ago. 

ESPN.com currently has Sullinger, who who missed two games for Ohio State in early December with back spasms, slated to go No. 10 in Mock Draft 7.0. 

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jared-Sullinger-5029/

Quote

Jared Sullinger surprised many by electing not to enter the 2011 NBA draft last April, despite being projected as a likely top-5 pick. Sullinger stated his desire to win a national championship as his motivation for returning to Ohio State after his team lost to Kentucky in the Sweet 16, and, to his credit, held true to his commitment. He did not rest on his laurels in the offseason, noticeably slimming down and improving his physique considerably.

 

He looks much more ready to step in and play from day one, though, which has to be deemed attractive for the worst teams in the NBA that will be picking first in the draft. Despite his limitations, players in Sullinger's mold, such as Kevin Love, Paul Millsap and Luis Scola have proven to be extremely effective in today's NBA. Add in his outstanding intangibles he has a winner's mentality, is highly intelligent and appears to be an excellent teammate and you're talking about one of the safer bets in the draft.

 

[AHF]

12 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Also I looked at Jaren Jackson's DWS and thought that I was going find some awesome number...It was 2.2!  By the way. Bagley's DWS was 2.1

The difference is actually quite significant when you factor in that WS is a minute dependent stat.  Looking at the per minute numbers show a very large gap.  Bagley played way more minutes.  

It is like comparing PPG or total points.  20 ppg is a lot more than 14 ppg but if one guy plays a lot more minutes total points can be very similar.