The Tank Thread

[Peoriabird]

15 minutes ago, AHF said:

The difference is actually quite significant when you factor in that WS is a minute dependent stat.  Looking at the per minute numbers show a very large gap.  Bagley played way more minutes.  

It is like comparing PPG or total points.  20 ppg is a lot more than 14 ppg but if one guy plays a lot more minutes total points can be very similar.

That's because Jackson was either in foul trouble or not a difference maker period

[buckyboy2]

 

24 minutes ago, AHF said:

The difference is actually quite significant when you factor in that WS is a minute dependent stat.  Looking at the per minute numbers show a very large gap.  Bagley played way more minutes.  

It is like comparing PPG or total points.  20 ppg is a lot more than 14 ppg but if one guy plays a lot more minutes total points can be very similar.

Ever wondered why  Bagley played more min than JJJ? Especially with him being such a great "rim protector"and all,  and Bagley sucking so bad on D? Was it because Duke had less talent than MSU? Nope..

Edited April 4, 2018 by buckyboy2

[Peoriabird]

Just now, buckyboy2 said:

 

Ever wondered why  Bagley played more min than JJJ? Especially with him being such a great "rim protector"and all,  and Bagley sucking so bad? Was it because Duke had less talent than MSU? Nope..

It ain't rocket science...Bagley carried Duke whereas Michigan state carried JJJ

[AHF]

12 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

That's because Jackson was either in foul trouble or not a difference maker period

Bagley and Jackson averaged about the same fouls per game (3.0 v 3.2) so Jackson was more foul prone and did indeed make more of an overall difference.  That difference was driven by his offense, though, and not his defense.  

JJJ's DWS/48 is 53% higher than Bagley's.  They aren't close to comparable in terms of the effectiveness of their D.

Bagley enjoys an OWS/48 43% higher than JJJ and edges JJJ on total WS/48 by .249 to .239.

I think the total WS number speaks to Bagley's much bigger impact on the season but it shouldn't be read to imply that his defensive minutes were anywhere close to as good as JJJ's.  Bagley led Duke with an impressive 6.9 WS number.  Carter was 2nd best at 5.9.  JJJ only had Mich State's 3rd best number.  There is no argument being made here about total impact this season - that is easily in Bagley's corner and JJJ's secondary role on Mich St is the big reason for heartburn on him (at least for me).

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

It ain't rocket science...Bagley carried Duke whereas Michigan state carried JJJ

That is overstating things (JJJ was a big contributor to Mich St and Duke looked just fine in the games that Bagley missed) but it is absolutely true that Bagley's total impact was significantly greater than JJJ's.

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Bagley and Jackson averaged about the same fouls per game (3.0 v 3.2) so Jackson was more foul prone and did indeed make more of an overall difference.  That difference was driven by his offense, though, and not his defense.  

JJJ's DWS/48 is 53% higher than Bagley's.  They aren't close to comparable in terms of the effectiveness of their D.

Bagley enjoys an OWS/48 43% higher than JJJ and edges JJJ on total WS/48 by .249 to .239.

I think the total WS number speaks to Bagley's much bigger impact on the season but it shouldn't be read to imply that his defensive minutes were anywhere close to as good as JJJ's.

If y'all want to convince yourselves that JJJ is going to be this star player, go right ahead...but for me, no thanks

[DBac]

 

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

It ain't rocket science...Bagley carried Duke whereas Michigan state carried JJJ

[AHF]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

If y'all want to convince yourselves that JJJ is going to be this start player, go right ahead...but for me, no thanks

Is this directed towards me?  I don't think I've been pumping JJJ as a star player.  I think he has a lot of potential but a long way to go as well.  He is the youngest player in the draft so I'm not shocked by the fact that he wasn't fully breakout ready this year but his supporting role worries me for sure.  

If we land at the #3 spot in the draft, I'm sending offers to trade up for Doncic.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Is this directed towards me?  I don't think I've been pumping JJJ as a star player.  I think he has a lot of potential but a long way to go as well.  He is the youngest player in the draft so I'm not shocked by the fact that he wasn't fully breakout ready this year but his supporting role worries me for sure.  

If we land at the #3 spot in the draft, I'm sending offers to trade up for Doncic.

Doncic ain't all that either!

[buckyboy2]

Later guys and guys. Almost time to head to Philips. Gotta fight this Atl traffic. Go Heat!!lol

[TheFuzz]

16 minutes ago, AHF said:

  

If we land at the #3 spot in the draft, I'm sending offers to trade up for Doncic.

I wouldn't, unless we are absolutely certain he's a transcendent star. I know what happened with Fultz was weird for a lot of reasons, but purely from a value proposition I don't think trading up from #3 to #1 is worth it.

Edit: I also think there's a shot Doncic falls to #3 anyway fwiw.

Edited April 4, 2018 by TheFuzz

[AHF]

For me Doncic is the guy on the board I want.  By a significant margin.  I think his floor is way higher than anyone else's and his ceiling is very nice too.  We've seen some MVP / All-NBA / All-Star players out of Europe and this guy is ahead of all of them at the same age.  Love his feel for the game.  Love his skills.   I don't think he is the next LeBron.  (Don't think that guy is in this draft). 

Whether a tradeup is worth it for him depends on the cost and I wouldn't be looking at our #1 next year.  But would I give up something like the T-Wolves pick or a lottery protected pick if I'm staring at Bagley, Bamba, Young, JJJ, Carter, Sexton and Bridges?  

[GABALLA]

Don't know why y'all playing yourselves. You know if we fall to 3 we are taking Michael Porter Jr. Better start praying that back heals.

[CBAreject]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Please Sullinger was not a lottery talent...Probably not even a 1st round talent

Based on what?

Arguing that Carter is not a lottery pick and that Sullinger was not a first round talent is silly.  The fact that Sullinger's career was shortened due to injuries says nothing about what level of talent he had as a prospect and where he was projected to go.  The "eye test" is also silly.  There are just a couple of guys each year who are eye-popping, but there are 14 lottery choices.  Most of them don't become NBA all-stars.  That's no knock on them, just a commentary on the rarity of NBA star talent.  Carter would be a lottery pick any year due to his size, skill, and production.  In years with thinner talent pools, he would be a top-5 pick.  Alex Len was a top-5 pick.  Absurd arguments here.  

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

That was the whole issue.  I pointed out that our opening day payroll was higher this year than last year.  Then you posted that they cheaply didn't resign THJr (which was consistent with your proposed alternative roster for this season from a couple weeks ago in this thread where you suggested they keep THJr).  When a team passes on someone who they ought not to resign and their total payroll goes up, I find it hard to process that the fact that we were not looking to be competitive this season as having driven us into a significantly reduced payroll since we were willing to pay significant dead money.  That suggests the issue to me is less about budget and more about direction of the team.

If the THJr move were an isolated incident then you would have a point but we made other nucklehead money moves for the sake of tanking after that.  A tanking team will be run on the cheap. 

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I find it hilarious that y'all bag on Collin's defense even though his defensive rating is better than Paul Millsap's rating this year.  LOL!!!!

Who's the better defender?

 

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

If the THJr move were an isolated incident then you would have a point but we made other nucklehead money moves for the sake of tanking after that.  A tanking team will be run on the cheap. 

 

We could have been run on the cheap this year.  Instead, ownership took on undesirable salary to pick up a first round pick and we ended up with a more expensive roster than when we were competing last year.

[TheFuzz]

10 minutes ago, CBAreject said:

The "eye test" is also silly.  There are just a couple of guys each year who are eye-popping, but there are 14 lottery choices.  Most of them don't become NBA all-stars.  

I agree with most of what you said, but I do think the "eye test" gets a bad rap in the modern era of advanced statistics. I believe there is some art to basketball scouting, and a trained eye test is just another way to sift through the crap shoot that is the draft. There's a blend. Lonzo Ball had insane efficiency in college, for example, and he might still turn into something but I predicted bust from the get go purely from the eye test. Not a comment on my scouting ability, which is of course infallible (kidding), more on how that observation is a part of it.

[lethalweapon3]

Final profile pic of the regular season!

It was a great run for MMA fighter Tank Abbott, But I had to dump him after catching probably the worst 80s movie on cable late last night (whether it was on Starz or Movieplex or Skinemax, I can't recall. 'Twas all a blur.)

On the surface, Tank (1984), seemed perfect because it was filmed and set right here in Georgia! I mean, back before filming here was sexy, when all we had was Deliverance to hang our hats onto. Starring the late James Garner, Shirley Jones and a clueless C. Thomas Howell, where the protagonist, an Army sergeant, got all Our Lives Matter on an overbearing small-town sheriff after jailing his innocent son. He uses his restored WWII Sherman tank as his light saber to battle the baddies, as he and the family maps out an escape to the high-minded state of... Tennessee.

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: I cannot emphasize enough how thoroughly unwatchable this film is. Worst dialogue you could even imagine. Giving it any stars would be an insult to constellations everywhere. If you see this film in a Walmart bin somewhere, grab your cart and roll away as quickly as you can.

~lw3

[TheFuzz]

54 minutes ago, AHF said:

For me Doncic is the guy on the board I want.  By a significant margin.  I think his floor is way higher than anyone else's and his ceiling is very nice too.  We've seen some MVP / All-NBA / All-Star players out of Europe and this guy is ahead of all of them at the same age.  Love his feel for the game.  Love his skills.   I don't think he is the next LeBron.  (Don't think that guy is in this draft). 

Whether a tradeup is worth it for him depends on the cost and I wouldn't be looking at our #1 next year.  But would I give up something like the T-Wolves pick or a lottery protected pick if I'm staring at Bagley, Bamba, Young, JJJ, Carter, Sexton and Bridges?  

Fair enough. I have Bagley ahead of him on my board but Doncic is #2.