The Tank Thread

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Bud did his best this year. 

 

If that is his best then we need a new coach because I assumed starting Plumlee and Babbitt that many times was him being complicit.  That zone with Collins at the 3 can't be one of his genius move nor the line up with Dorsey-Cleveland-White-Cavanaugh-Plumlee.  If that is great coaching to you then we can stop talking about that.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

We won't have to throw in the towel. I don't think we be a playoff team next season.

There is a difference in not making the playoffs I.e. Detroit and tanking I.e. Hawks, Suns, Mavs, Orlando.  I'm done with the latter

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You keep quoting articles as if Bagley didn't improve his jumper during the season and as if he doesn't have all summer to improve in the off-season. He's not a duplicate Collins just based off the fact that he has a superior PF ceiling to Collins and he's an elite scoring player. Players with his quickness, speed, motor, ability and talent at his position aren't just rare, they simply haven't been seen before in the NBA. You don't pass on a star because it's unusual. Portland did that with Michael Jordan and it worked perfectly for them. 

 

Before Michael Jordan, we had no reference to Michael Jordan.

Only 1 other 20/10 player over the last decade and that was Durant

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You keep quoting articles as if Bagley didn't improve his jumper during the season and as if he doesn't have all summer to improve in the off-season. He's not a duplicate Collins just based off the fact that he has a superior PF ceiling to Collins and he's an elite scoring player. Players with his quickness, speed, motor, ability and talent at his position aren't just rare, they simply haven't been seen before in the NBA. You don't pass on a star because it's usual. Portland did that with Michael Jordan and it worked perfectly for them. 

That report was written on 3/28/18.  He does not have NBA three point range and is not in any way, shape, or form a stretch four prospect in the NBA.  He's a finisher at the rim, and his offensive role will be as a pick and roll dive man as a center, not power forward unless he is paired with a floor spacer type of center.  He also needs a strong defensive presence next to him to maximize him.  Truly elite players don't need to be in certain situations to excel.  Bagley has to be placed in a certain role and in certain situations to excel.

[KB21]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

If that is his best then we need a new coach because I assumed starting Plumlee and Babbitt that many times was him being complicit.  That zone with Collins at the 3 can't be one of his genius move nor the line up with Dorsey-Cleveland-White-Cavanaugh-Plumlee.  If that is great coaching to you then we can stop talking about that.

Tell me who his GM gave him to start instead of Plumlee when Dedmond was out.  It is also a fact that Atlanta's defense was better with Plumlee in the game.

[Peoriabird]

Just now, KB21 said:

Tell me who his GM gave him to start instead of Plumlee when Dedmond was out.  It is also a fact that Atlanta's defense was better with Plumlee in the game.

So now Plumlee should be starting or getting major minutes??  LOL!  Plumlee was starting when Dedmon was Healthy...Certainly was starting when Collins was healthy then it suddenly changed.  Look Bro, You are the only one on this board that thinks that Bud was trying to win every game.  There are so many example where Bud deliberately tried to stop the Hawks from winning.  For example in that 1st Heat game...Prince played 10 minutes...None in the 2nd half even with 8 healthy players...Does this register with you at all??

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

That report was written on 3/28/18.  He does not have NBA three point range and is not in any way, shape, or form a stretch four prospect in the NBA.  He's a finisher at the rim, and his offensive role will be as a pick and roll dive man as a center, not power forward unless he is paired with a floor spacer type of center.  He also needs a strong defensive presence next to him to maximize him.  Truly elite players don't need to be in certain situations to excel.  Bagley has to be placed in a certain role and in certain situations to excel.

It doesn't matter. The article is trash anyway. It could have been written by you. Far too often, people are focused on trying to be right instead of being accurate. If you are going to be accurate, you need to talk about his improvement with his jump shooting since Jan. His defensive abilities has shown that he could defend 5 positions even if he struggles in space at times due to only confusion. Not due to a lack of skills or ability. His high BBIQ on offense. His ability at the PnR, his ability in isolation, his ability in face up and back to basket. No big in the last 30 years of NCAA basketball has scorer in as many ways and as efficiency in that as a freshman. He's an unicorn. 

Don't be dumb. Scouts didn't know Michael Jordan position and question what he is but don't avoid the obvious and overly focus on what if. Truth is, no one this team position is safe. Collins haven't show he's a franchise piece. Nor has Dennis. Prince is the closest and he's not close. If Atlanta thinks Bagley is, Bagley needs to be the pick. f*** the bullshit! Go to what gives your franchise the best chance to win rings.

[KB21]

Yeah.  Duplicating John Collins gives us the best chance to win rings, and a front court that will be terrible on defense and cannot space the floor.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Well then, be prepared to do just that.  The roster next year may very well look something like this:

Mike Muscala, C/PF (5 years experience)

Miles Plumless, C (5 years experience)

Dennis Schröder, PG (5 years experience)

Kent Bazemore, SG/SF (6 years experience)

Taurean Prince, SF (2 years experience)

DeAndre Bembry, SG/SF (2 years experience)

John Collins, PF/C (1 year experience)

Tyler Dorsey, SG (1 year experience)

Tyler Cavanaugh, PF/C (1 year experience

Isaiah Taylor, PG (1 year experience)

Damion Lee, SG (less than 1 year experience)

Jaylen Morris, SF (less than 1 year experience)

Antonious Cleveland, SF (less than 1 year experience)

Andrew White, SF (less than 1 year experience)

Josh Maggette, PG (1 year experience)

Rookie

Rookie

Rookie

Rookie

I have very little doubt that no quality veterans will be added.  If anything, they will do what they did with Jamal Crawford and take on a bad contract for a draft pick.  However, I'm not convinced they will do that because their roster is extremely cost controlled for next year.  I also feel that Dennis may be traded this off season as well.

Next year's team is going to be worse than this year's.  It will be ugly and painful to watch, without much hope of it getting much better a year from now either.  This is the pathway you guys wanted though.

 

 

That baby represents the emotions when you tank

• Elation
• Disappointment
• Despair

Edited April 5, 2018 by TheNorthCydeRises

[NBASupes]

36 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yeah.  Duplicating John Collins gives us the best chance to win rings, and a front court that will be terrible on defense and cannot space the floor.  

Terrible hot take. 

[KB21]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Terrible hot take. 

If that's a terrible hot take, give me one source that believes Marvin Bagley will be a strong defender in the NBA.  Just one.

[NBASupes]

48 minutes ago, KB21 said:

If that's a terrible hot take, give me one source that believes Marvin Bagley will be a strong defender in the NBA.  Just one.

There is a massive difference then saying he's not a good defender and saying he's John Collins and he's not that good. 

Bagley is not a good defender. I've never stated that. I've said he can defend all positions. I've never said he did it well. 

This article says the say:

"When Duke is playing man defense, the Blue Devils switch almost every screen involving the 1-4 positions because of how confident they are in Bagley’s perimeter defense. He got burned by the Boston College guards in Duke’s loss last Saturday, but he has shown the ability to lock up smaller players. Look at how easily he swallows up Florida guard Chris Chiozza on the drive"

 

My take was simple, he's a special offensive player. Nothing like him offensively. He will clearly have to develop on defense. His best defense would be something like Atlanta Al Horford, Millsap switch everything defense. 

He will struggle otherwise at this stage

Edited April 5, 2018 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

"

A two-post offense with Bagley at the 4 would be an interesting counter to the spread pick-and-roll. A 6-foot-11 player with his skill and athleticism should be able to score over the smaller wing players who have migrated to the power forward position in recent years. Some NBA talent evaluators think Bagley has a broader skill set than he has shown at Duke. It’s so easy for him to score inside that there’s no reason for him to do anything else. Karl-Anthony Towns spent most of his time in the low post at Kentucky and took only eight 3s all season before expanding his game once he got to the NBA. Bagley’s ceiling is something we have never quite seen before. He could become a big man who averages 20 and 10, scores all over the floor, and is an elite perimeter defender (rather than a rim protector). He could attack mismatches on offense without creating any on defense."

[NBASupes]

Out of all of the prospects, Bagley does what Bud likes the most. He's versatile, can switch to any position, can run the floor, run the PnR.  He can develop into a good shooter. He can attack the basket at will. He's what Bud always wanted in Al.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bud took Bagley #1 overall or moved back to #2 to get him and some extra picks.

Edited April 5, 2018 by NBASupes

[Peoriabird]

18 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Out of all of the prospects, Bagley does what Bud likes the most. He's versatile, can switch to any position, can run the floor, run the PnR.  He can develop into a good shooter. He can attack the basket at will. He's what Bud always wanted in Al.

That's what I thought!  Plus he is smart with the ball like Collins and rarely takes bad shots or makes bad passes.  Bud ain't ever been impressed with some defensive minded big man that has limited versatility.

[NBASupes]

10 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

That's what I thought!  Plus he is smart with the ball like Collins and rarely takes bad shot or makes bad passed.  Bud ain't ever been impressed with some defensive minded big man that has limited versatility.

If you can't switch and actually not be a liability, Bud doesn't gets pissed. Bud don't give a damn about shot blocking.

Edited April 5, 2018 by NBASupes

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Bud don't give a damn about shot blocking.

Eggxactly!!!!!

[buckyboy2]

21 hours ago, KB21 said:

Green had a 7.3 DBPM as a senior at Michigan State, so yes.  I did project him to be a good defender in the NBA.  Now, I didn't anticipate that he would be one of the best defensive bigs in basketball, but I did anticipate that he would be good.  In fact, this is what I said about him before that draft in reference to where the Hawks were picking:

 

You mentioned his leadership ability, his passing, and his shooting. Nothing about his defense...lol

Edited April 5, 2018 by buckyboy2

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, buckyboy2 said:

You mentioned his leadership ability, his passing, and his shooting. Nothing about his defense...lol

Because he doesn't know what he's talking about

[High5]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Because he doesn't know what he's talking about

You've called Bagley a unicorn, said Ayton's floor is DeMarcus Cousins, and said Bamba has the ability/potential to be the best player in the NBA. I'm not sure either of you are really qualified to give accurate assessments on these prospects. Just one extreme to the other.