The Tank Thread

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, MaceCase said:

You tell me, it's apparently your logic that we are trying to get to the bottom of.  Philly can win more games but it does nothing towards establishing a "winning culture" while the Spurs can lose more games without it diminishing their "winning culture"? 

Cool, I can buy that but where does that leave the Hawks? 

That's the most important and relevant question that's being tap danced around. 

So the Hawks won games but had no "winning culture"?  So again... what exactly is the downfall if the Hawks lose games?  You can't have it both ways, you can't say there's a negative to the positive but no positive to the negative but the positive with a negative is better than the negative with no positive ERMAGERD! tanking sucks!

Is that your excuse?

My statement is simple.

Just because you win some games, it doesn't mean you have a winning culture. 

Now you can keep up with your trying to twist it into something illogical... if you wish.. but that's the statement...

Carry on.

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Wretch said:

 

This is the reason why we are perceived the way we are.  It's not for the years we were rebuilding.  If so, people would be associating us with the likes of the Sixers or the Kings.  No, people know that we are a playoff team.  We are ALWAYS a playoff team - as evidenced by our ranking behind the Lakers, Celtics, and Spurs for playoff berths.  Isn't it some kind of clue that we are not held in the same regard?

You can't change that perception by tanking.

Let's just get that out of the way.  At the same time however, you cannot change the perception by rolling out more warmup squads for the contenders year after year.  I mean, it's not like we don't have twenty-something years of case studies to prove it.  It's a forgone conclusion at this point.  What this team needs is the kind of talent that wins meaningful games and our best chance of getting it is to sift though the most potent talent pool in the draft.  With perhaps two exceptions, and asinine semantics and selective logic aside, that's how every other team has built the foundation of their contender.

There is absolutely nothing that suggests a better alternative for us.

First let me say.. Amen and I agree with a lot of what you said. 

I just want to add that there are cycles to the culture.   Look at the Celtics now.. they have managed to get back into the winning culture... They had their cycles when they were out of it.   You just have to recognize what it takes to get there.  It definitely starts with ownership and then to the GM.   Ferry showed the difference a GM can make on the culture.   AOL Time Warner showed the difference ownership can make on it.    Really, the last part of the equation is players.  Hawks fans believe that they can go out and draft a top player and he will change the culture.   They are sadly mistaken.   I think the world of Karl Anthony Townes and I think Embiid is better than Olajuwon.  but their greatness won't change the culture.  Historically...  what was so wrong with Mitch Richmond?  He was a great player... so was Pat Ewing... So was Charles Barkley.  None of them ever won a ring.. for Mitch Richmond, he never got close.   Why couldn't Mitch Richmond or Chris Mullen ever make a difference for their teams??  Doesn't their allstar status mean anything?  

We bring in a great young player without addressing the culture, we will watch him grow dissatisfied and leave.

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, DBac said:

For all intents and purposes, we have a 0 percent chance of winning a title

 

Well then, we never had a winning culture. Neither Horford nor Demarre were willing to take a paycut.

Speaking of Horford, why is it that he would go to Boston, a team in the midst of a rebuild (that we, with our established winning culture, beat)?

First give me a premise that you accept.   While you're trying to figure that out... here's what Horford said:

 

Quote

“The biggest thing was Danny Ainge,” said Horford of the Celtics president. “Right before I signed here one of the things he said to me was, ‘I want you to be who you are and the player that you are - the competitor, the winner. Don’t worry about the numbers. Just play hard and help us win.’ He was very clear from the beginning, and that really took the pressure off me. Obviously, there were all of these expectations – the big contract - but he and coach Stevens put me at peace and allowed me to play my game.’’

 

[Sothron]

21 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Greatest Sportsmovie???

You say White Men can't Jump...

What about:

Remember the Titans.

Hoosiers

Major League

Any Given Sunday

The Replacements

Field of Dreams...  Ok... maybe not this one.

Rocky?

Ali?

There are others. 

I like most of the movies you listed, they are outstanding. I would Bull Durham is the best baseball movie of all time, Field of Dreams is close though. But White Men Can't Jump is just the best sports movie ever made. I have a personal bias in that movie so adequately described me roving southern Georgia looking for the best games I could get which usually was in the roughest parts of town. I am Billy Hoyle!

[Sothron]

Horford only left because the Celtics gave him the extra year. That's the only reason he left. Let's don't try and confuse it with some kind of "winning culture" on a Celtics team that hadn't been relevant since they split up their Big 3.

[turnermx]

Well, MPJ got hurt, time to update the wish list.

[Sothron]

21 minutes ago, turnermx said:

Well, MPJ got hurt, time to update the wish list.

I wonder if Ayton can play next to Collins. If Ayton puts on the show he's capable of doing in college this year we could have the next KAT or Embiid.

[MaceCase]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Is that your excuse?

My statement is simple.

Just because you win some games, it doesn't mean you have a winning culture. 

Now you can keep up with your trying to twist it into something illogical... if you wish.. but that's the statement...

Carry on.

 

Wow, you sure talk tough for someone who isn't savvy enough to realize that you are making other people's point for them.....or maybe you are but are just too embarrassed thus why you avoid answering the question.

I'll make it simpler for you:

If winning some games doesn't mean you have a winning culture then what do the Hawks have to lose by losing?

you can carry on with your tap dance though, it's a nice rhythm.

[Watchman]

6 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

Wow, you sure talk tough for someone who isn't savvy enough to realize that you are making other people's point for them.....or maybe you are but are just too embarrassed thus why you avoid answering the question.

I'll make it simpler for you:

If winning some games doesn't mean you have a winning culture then what do the Hawks have to lose by losing?

you can carry on with your tap dance though, it's a nice rhythm.

Kind of hard to build on draft picks when the young draft picks get tired of losing.  Even if we got someone good, these young guys will be sick of losing, and flee at their first opportunity.

 

http://www.ajc.com/sports/taurean-prince-says-tired-losing-after-homecoming-san-antonio/8MAh6QEdFzb54wrVJcRzaP/

Atlanta Hawks forward Taurean Prince was disappointed to leave his home town of San Antonio with a loss on Monday night.

Prince, a second-year player out of Baylor, recorded 18 points and eight rebounds in his homecoming, but was disappointed the Hawks didn’t get the win.

 

“I had a lot of fun but like you said I want to win so that’s most important. I’m tired of losing games,” Prince said after the game to Fox Sports.

[Watchman]

On 11/14/2017 at 9:41 PM, Packfill said:

I would take the 2017 Philly roster over the 2016 Hotlanta roster every time.  So would any rationale person.

Good.  We'll see in about 10 years how that turns out. 

[Sothron]

13 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

Wow, you sure talk tough for someone who isn't savvy enough to realize that you are making other people's point for them.....or maybe you are but are just too embarrassed thus why you avoid answering the question.

I'll make it simpler for you:

If winning some games doesn't mean you have a winning culture then what do the Hawks have to lose by losing?

you can carry on with your tap dance though, it's a nice rhythm.

Boss...that's a windmill you are tilting at.

[hazer]

35 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

Wow, you sure talk tough for someone who isn't savvy enough to realize that you are making other people's point for them.....or maybe you are but are just too embarrassed thus why you avoid answering the question.

Constantly...

[hazer]

26 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Kind of hard to build on draft picks when the young draft picks get tired of losing.  Even if we got someone good, these young guys will be sick of losing, and flee at their first opportunity.

 

http://www.ajc.com/sports/taurean-prince-says-tired-losing-after-homecoming-san-antonio/8MAh6QEdFzb54wrVJcRzaP/

Atlanta Hawks forward Taurean Prince was disappointed to leave his home town of San Antonio with a loss on Monday night.

Prince, a second-year player out of Baylor, recorded 18 points and eight rebounds in his homecoming, but was disappointed the Hawks didn’t get the win.

 

“I had a lot of fun but like you said I want to win so that’s most important. I’m tired of losing games,” Prince said after the game to Fox Sports.

What's Fresh Printz supposed to say? "Hellz yeah, lost that one for Bagley! True to ATL!!!" Come on man.....

[Diesel]

34 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

Wow, you sure talk tough for someone who isn't savvy enough to realize that you are making other people's point for them.....or maybe you are but are just too embarrassed thus why you avoid answering the question.

I'll make it simpler for you:

If winning some games doesn't mean you have a winning culture then what do the Hawks have to lose by losing?

you can carry on with your tap dance though, it's a nice rhythm.

It's easier to see....

For the free agent, it's easier to see that you're trying to establish a winning culture when you're making your way towards the goal... than when you thrown in the towel and started over.   

Here's the questions...

How many good free agents sign on to be with rebuilding teams?

Name one team that one a championship right after a firesale??  2 years after a firesale?  5 years after a firesale?

You ask what do the Hawks have to lose by losing??

1. Fanbase.
2. Dignity.
3. Player Respect.
4. TV time
5. Head Coaches that care.

 

That's my top 5 things... those are things that speak to the culture around here.   We've developed a culture of losing by having a firesale and saying that we want to build from the draft.   If there was a dollar for every team that said..we're going to build from the draft... then there would be 100s of dollars somewhere.   A lot of teams say that... how many get to championship calibre??  very very few... 

Tell Orlando to move over... we're getting on the losing treadmill. 

 

[Diesel]

33 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Kind of hard to build on draft picks when the young draft picks get tired of losing.  Even if we got someone good, these young guys will be sick of losing, and flee at their first opportunity.

 

http://www.ajc.com/sports/taurean-prince-says-tired-losing-after-homecoming-san-antonio/8MAh6QEdFzb54wrVJcRzaP/

Atlanta Hawks forward Taurean Prince was disappointed to leave his home town of San Antonio with a loss on Monday night.

Prince, a second-year player out of Baylor, recorded 18 points and eight rebounds in his homecoming, but was disappointed the Hawks didn’t get the win.

 

“I had a lot of fun but like you said I want to win so that’s most important. I’m tired of losing games,” Prince said after the game to Fox Sports.

Wow...

How long do you think guys like Him and John will stick around while we lose...MACE?

[Watchman]

4 minutes ago, hazer said:

What's Fresh Printz supposed to say? "Hellz yeah, lost that one for Bagley! True to ATL!!!" Come on man.....

So your thinking is he really doesn't mind losing, I guess.  Years and years of losing wears on young players.  I wouldn't blame them for leaving as soon as they possibly can.

[hazer]

5 minutes ago, Watchman said:

So your thinking is he really doesn't mind losing, I guess.  Years and years of losing wears on young players.  I wouldn't blame them for leaving as soon as they possibly can.

Didn't say that. But Printz knows what's up this year. Years and years of losing, yes. But I don't think that's going to happen, back to playoffs in 2019-2020. If years and years of losing didn't wear on a player, I wouldn't want that player on my roster.

Edited November 21, 2017 by hazer

[Thomas]

1 hour ago, turnermx said:

Well, MPJ got hurt, time to update the wish list.

Ugh, big men and back issues. Its starting way early for Porter Jr. Wishing him to get well soon and to hopefully stay that way. 

[turnermx]

I wonder if Ayton can play next to Collins. If Ayton puts on the show he's capable of doing in college this year we could have the next KAT or Embiid.

 

Not sure I will have to watch some AZ Wildcats games. Had a double double in his first game 19 and 12. It sure would be exciting to have a front court PF/C combo capable of double doubles and 20 10 any given game.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[MaceCase]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

It's easier to see....

For the free agent, it's easier to see that you're trying to establish a winning culture when you're making your way towards the goal... than when you thrown in the towel and started over.   

Here's the questions...

How many good free agents sign on to be with rebuilding teams?

Name one team that one a championship right after a firesale??  2 years after a firesale?  5 years after a firesale?

You ask what do the Hawks have to lose by losing??

1. Fanbase.
2. Dignity.
3. Player Respect.
4. TV time
5. Head Coaches that care.

 

 

 

Diesel, bubeleh, bubbe... How can the Hawks lose what they never had? 

4th most playoff appearance since 68', bottom of the barrel attendance, less than a M80 firecracker damaged handful of notable free agent signings, bare minimum national TV games with even playoff games banished to a cable channel that most people don't have...be a mensch and stop tap dancing.