The Tank Thread

[NBASupes]

We need some trades

[BrazilianHawk]

No need to panic. As soon as Dedmon and Ilya are gone, Hawks will be on their way to a really high pick.

[hawkman]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

We need some trades

If I was Schlenk I wouldn't even wait until the deadline to start working the phones.

[benhillboy]

9 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

...this team is starting to develop some chemistry and is now playing defense.

The offense was fine but I didn’t have any faith in the D going forward this whole season.  Held opponents to under 100 in 3 of the last 4, all wins of course.  Baze has spearheaded the surge with Ded and Plum doing their jobs.  Dennis and Delaney forming better traps, the latter giving good effort fighting over screens.  Illy been taking charges and Collins been eating glass when the D sucked.

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

The offense was fine but I didn’t have any faith in the D going forward this whole season.  Held opponents to under 100 in 3 of the last 4, all wins of course.  Baze has spearheaded the surge with Ded and Plum doing their jobs.  Dennis and Delaney forming better traps, the latter giving good effort fighting over screens.  Illy been taking charges and Collins been eating glass when the D sucked.

I'm not so sure about that...The team is definitely trying harder on defense and starting to understand Bud's defensive principles.  Plus Bud is now playing rebound friendly line ups the entire game!

[benhillboy]

10 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I'm not so sure about that...The team is definitely trying harder on defense and starting to understand Bud's defensive principles.  Plus Bud is now playing rebound friendly line ups the entire game!

Not sure about what?  I think we’re in total agreement here lol.

The residual effect of Babbitt riding pine has certainly contributed to the uptick too.

[Peoriabird]

11 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Not sure about what?  I think we’re in total agreement here lol.

The residual effect of Babbitt riding pine has certainly contributed to the uptick too.

My bad,  I though you saying that you didn't think the Defense would hold up for the rest of the season.  I've felt all along that the team's defense would improve if the proper line up where put together for example, no Babbitt or Muscala and moving Collins to power forward to play with another rebounding/defensive center.  Bud is finally starting to do this consistently which has resulted in the team's turn around 

[Buzzard]

We are 4 and 6 over our last 10. Keep this up for the season and that is on pace for 28 wins.

Two things that have become even more apparent this season and it involves those Florida teams. Pat Riley and Erik Spoelstra refuse to tank; and Orlando does not know how to build a team. I was sure the Magic would be at least a borderline lottery team again; but I did not think the Heat would be playing this well. Maybe it is because the South is so we weak; but the Heat are allergic to the lottery, Especially the part of the lottery that runs your fan base away in droves while you stink up the court.

[AHF]

11 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Finally posters are starting to realize that this team is starting to develop some chemistry and is now playing defense.  Probably won't finish with one of the 5 worst records this year but the future still looks bright for this team.

I think we need a star out of the draft for the future to look bright.  I have no doubt we could become merely competent pretty quickly for the future looking bright to me means a chance to be a contender.  You need  your homerun(s) in the draft for that.  If we finish with the 6th worst record, we could end up with the #9 pick which would be a disaster of a season unless Schlenk gets lucky with who is on the board and pulls our ###es out of the fire by making the right pick, IMO.

I don't disagree much of anything you are saying in terms of how this team will likely compete if we try to win games the rest of the way.  I just don't want to see that.

[Buzzard]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think we need a star out of the draft for the future to look bright.  I have no doubt we could become merely competent pretty quickly for the future looking bright to me means a chance to be a contender.  You need  your homerun(s) in the draft for that.  If we finish with the 6th worst record, we could end up with the #9 pick which would be a disaster of a season unless Schlenk gets lucky with who is on the board and pulls our ###es out of the fire by making the right pick, IMO.

I don't disagree much of anything you are saying in terms of how this team will likely compete if we try to win games the rest of the way.  I just don't want to see that.

I understand this draft could be top heavy from 1 through 5. It will be interesting to see if we make a trade to get worse; or keep trying to win games with Schröder, Dedmon, and Collins along with vets Ersan, Marco, and Bazemore making solid contributions.

Dedmon does make us a better team and that has shown since he came back from his injury.

Prince and Bembry have been disappointments as far as I am concerned. Maybe next season we see something better from them. I certainly hope so. 

[Peoriabird]

26 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think we need a star out of the draft for the future to look bright.  I have no doubt we could become merely competent pretty quickly for the future looking bright to me means a chance to be a contender.  You need  your homerun(s) in the draft for that.  If we finish with the 6th worst record, we could end up with the #9 pick which would be a disaster of a season unless Schlenk gets lucky with who is on the board and pulls our ###es out of the fire by making the right pick, IMO.

I don't disagree much of anything you are saying in terms of how this team will likely compete if we try to win games the rest of the way.  I just don't want to see that.

I just think that we need a star plus keep key players like Dennis, Baze, Dedmon and possibly Ilyasova.  Whether or not pick #1 is so much greater than pick #7 that we would be better off getting rid of the 4 above just to get the #1 pick is where the debate lies.  In other words is #1>#7 plus Baze, Dedmon, Illyasova.

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I understand this draft could be top heavy from 1 through 5. It will be interesting to see if we make a trade to get worse; or keep trying to win games with Schröder, Dedmon, and Collins along with vets Ersan, Marco, and Bazemore making solid contributions.

 

Who are you trading to make the team worse?

[Buzzard]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Who are you trading to make the team worse?

Ersan and Marco for starters. I am not sure Bazemore can be moved. I like Dedmon a lot.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Buzzard

[Peoriabird]

Just now, Buzzard said:

Ersan and Marco for starters. I am not sure Bazemore can be moved. I like Dedmon a lot.

Marco doesn't move the needle as far as I am concerned.  He doesn't really determine win or losses. Ilyasova is a different story.  If Ilyasova was on a longer team contract then I would say no unless we receive a great offer like a top 10 protected 1st rounder in this or next year's draft. His 1 year deal complicates things though. Unless he definitely wants to return on a longer team deal at the end of the season, he should be considered a trade target to get something for in return.

[Buzzard]

14 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Marco doesn't move the needle as far as I am concerned.  He doesn't really determine win or losses. Ilyasova is a different story.  If Ilyasova was on a longer team contract then I would say no unless we receive a great offer like a top 10 protected 1st rounder in this or next year's draft. His 1 year deal complicates things though. Unless he definitely wants to return on a longer team deal at the end of the season, he should be considered a trade target to get something for in return.

If the goal is to lose games, Ersan and Dedmon are our best pieces to move without trading away young players. Marco is erratic but he can come off the bench and light it up from time to time. It really depends on Travis and Bud. Do they want to do a full out tank; or do they want to win 25 to 28 games?

The other option to tank is to shut down someone with a minor injury; or give Collins most of the PF minutes for development and shut down Irsan by keeping him on the bench. Shutting down Ersan is a tough one since you will probably sour him on staying since he is playing for a contract.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Buzzard

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Buzzard said:

If the goal is to lose games, Irsan and Dedmon are our best pieces to move without trading away young players. Marco is erratic but he can come off the bench and light it up from time to time. It really depends on Travis and Bud. Do they want to do a full out tank; or do they want to win 25 to 28 games?

The other option to tank is to shut down someone with a minor injury; or give Collins most of the PF minutes for development and shut down Irsan by keeping him on the bench. Shutting down Irsan is a tough one since you will probably sour him on staying since he is playing for a contract.

The Goal is not to lose games just to lose games...The goal is to get better!  The question is how to do that?  Do you get rid of players think that it would lead to the #1 pick in the draft or do you let it play out to see what you have on your team already.  If you think the #1 player is so much better than everyone else in the draft then logic states that you lose game to get an opportunity to draft that player.  I'm just not sure that player exist in this upcoming draft

[nathan2331]

The Goal is not to lose games just to lose games...The goal is to get better!  The question is how to do that?  Do you get rid of players think that it would lead to the #1 pick in the draft or do you let it play out to see what you have on your team already.  If you think the #1 player is so much better than everyone else in the draft then logic states that you lose game to get an opportunity to draft that player.  I'm just not sure that player exist in this upcoming draft

There are a several potential star players in the draft worth going for. It's the only reason I'm optimistic about our chances of turning things around. Our best course of action would be trading Ilyasova and maybe even Dedmon as much as I hate to say it. I'd re-sign them in a heartbeat, but they are helping us win too many games. We need less efficient players, or at least guys that don't play good defense.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, nathan2331 said:

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

The Goal is not to lose games just to lose games...The goal is to get better!  The question is how to do that?  Do you get rid of players think that it would lead to the #1 pick in the draft or do you let it play out to see what you have on your team already.  If you think the #1 player is so much better than everyone else in the draft then logic states that you lose game to get an opportunity to draft that player.  I'm just not sure that player exist in this upcoming draft

 

There are a several potential star players in the draft worth going for. It's the only reason I'm optimistic about our chances of turning things around. Our best course of action would be trading Ilyasova and maybe even Dedmon as much as I hate to say it. I'd re-sign them in a heartbeat, but they are helping us win too many games. We need less efficient players, or at least guys that don't play good defense.

Scouts and fans always think there are stars at the top of the draft.  They always think that guys at the top of draft are can't miss.  There are no Lebrons or Durants in this years draft so are the Horfords of the world worth getting rid of very useful player for?  We'll see

[Buzzard]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

The Goal is not to lose games just to lose games...The goal is to get better!  The question is how to do that?  Do you get rid of players think that it would lead to the #1 pick in the draft or do you let it play out to see what you have on your team already.  If you think the #1 player is so much better than everyone else in the draft then logic states that you lose game to get an opportunity to draft that player.  I'm just not sure that player exist in this upcoming draft

Tanking involves the long term goal from most perspectives. If we want one of the top three picks, we probably need to dump some talent. If we stay pat, I don't think we are chasing the #1 pick.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Tanking involves the long term goal from most perspectives. If we want one of the top three picks, we probably need to dump some talent. If we stay pat, I don't think we are chasing the #1 pick.

Did you read what I said?..My question is in this draft, are the top 3 in this draft clearly that much better than picks 4-8?