Hawksquawk is back up, Welcome to the Bagley Zone

[JTB]

@NBASupes I honestly believe Collins and Bagley can co exist! Truly believe that even against bigger front courts if they both equip themselves with a jump shot.

Not that bagley and bamba wouldn’t be great cause it would be but I do believe the dou of Collins and Bagley would have some advantages over most if not all other pf/c dous with the speed, getting out on run, finishing above the rim ability and capable 3pt shooting from both.

Defensively i can see both being able to play in space and switch on to guards well with the assistance of our new coach Pierce.

ONLY flaw I see in a Collins and Bagley tandem is when they get posted up. But you can counter these things with weak side blocks and just being awesome on offense.

 

all in all I of course don’t believe this will happen right off the back but I think it works offensively cause bagley looks like he will have some pretty good playmaking skills at some point and there’s more than good solid determination between the two of them to get way better defensively.

[EazyRoc]

8 hours ago, capstone21 said:

The pick was basically the prize for Irving ... I don’t think that package is enough to pry that from them ... dedmon will probably opt out and it’s not a reward to take on Bazmore’s contract. Prob a potential realistic trade would be Dennis to PHX for knight and 15 ... we can then maybe package either 15 or 17 and 30 to Clipps for 12 ... that way we have 3 (bagley) ... 12 (SGA Kentucky pg) and 17 for Smith or best player available... 34 Grayson Allen

 

 

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One thing to consider is...LeBron does not want to play with rookies. If Young is gone at their pick, I don’t see anyone standing out that LeBron will OK. Cavs HAVE to keep Bron happy or he walks and they will suck again for a very long time. You’re right about Baze, but what I was trying to package in the trade is a lot of useful veterans where they need help (defense). So let’s say we do Dennis/Dedman/Mid 1st for #8 and Clarkson. They get their veteran guard and floor spacing rim protector. We get our back up PG and a chance to add Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Collin Sexton, or the better Bridges brother. I think Sexton will be a dog in the pros and is an outstanding competitor and someone who will be a leader on whatever team he plays for.

[EazyRoc]

8 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

No way Cleveland would do that.  They either want one of the PGs ( Young or Sexton ) . . or a wing defender.

Dennis/Dedmon/Mid(or Late) 1st for #8, Clarkson, and Thompson.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

47 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

Dennis/Dedmon/Mid(or Late) 1st for #8, Clarkson, and Thompson.

Flip the scenario around.  Would you do that if the Hawks had the #8 pick?   

[AHF]

3 hours ago, EazyRoc said:

Dennis/Dedmon/Mid(or Late) 1st for #8, Clarkson, and Thompson.

The real appeal of this for Cleveland if they like it is removing dead weight contracts.  Does this create any cap space for them or just rid a pair of bad deals?

[EazyRoc]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Flip the scenario around.  Would you do that if the Hawks had the #8 pick?   

You can’t. It’s a special case. While I haven’t done the research, but if that freed up enough cap space for Cleveland to make one major FA acquisition then it’s a no-brainer. You have to keep LeBron happy. You saw how LeBron made them flip Wiggins for Love. He’s not interested in adding a rookie to his team if they can’t come in Day 1 and contribute in a major way. Which is why I narrowed in on Cleveland in the first place. If we can fill in major needs for that roster AND simultaneously free up enough space to make them players in FA, then this trade is an absolute no brainer. I’m just not sure that getting rid of Thompson and Clarkson frees up enough cap space to put them back in the FA marketplace.

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, JTB said:

@NBASupes I honestly believe Collins and Bagley can co exist! Truly believe that even against bigger front courts if they both equip themselves with a jump shot.

Not that bagley and bamba wouldn’t be great cause it would be but I do believe the dou of Collins and Bagley would have some advantages over most if not all other pf/c dous with the speed, getting out on run, finishing above the rim ability and capable 3pt shooting from both.

Defensively i can see both being able to play in space and switch on to guards well with the assistance of our new coach Pierce.

ONLY flaw I see in a Collins and Bagley tandem is when they get posted up. But you can counter these things with weak side blocks and just being awesome on offense.

 

all in all I of course don’t believe this will happen right off the back but I think it works offensively cause bagley looks like he will have some pretty good playmaking skills at some point and there’s more than good solid determination between the two of them to get way better defensively.

Offensively, I think Collins and Bagley will work extremely well. Defensively, I see a number of flaws, most notably, rim protection. 

I am not even as worried about their post defense which both are decent at. But both Bagley and Collins are trailing shot blockers, neither are defensive anchors, Rim protectors or paint protectors. Bamba just fits a lot more. They have the perfect skill-set for each other. It's like an elite talent version of Ben and Rasheed Wallace. One is extremely strong defensively with some good defensive qualities but some flaws. One is extremely strong offensively with some good offensive qualities but some flaws. 

I really see Bagley as a Michael Jordan like offensive prospect. My highest rated in over 15 years of doing this but hes not without flaws. I just think it is best to showcase the strengths of both players which both are elite.

[Buzzard]

4 hours ago, JTB said:

@NBASupes I honestly believe Collins and Bagley can co exist! Truly believe that even against bigger front courts if they both equip themselves with a jump shot.

Not that bagley and bamba wouldn’t be great cause it would be but I do believe the dou of Collins and Bagley would have some advantages over most if not all other pf/c dous with the speed, getting out on run, finishing above the rim ability and capable 3pt shooting from both.

 

 

 

 

In this small ball era of the NBA I  think Collins and Bagley could be better together than Bamba and Bagley. I want mobility, quickness, length, and the ability to be a threat on both ends of the floor. I think Prince, Bagley, Collins gives us that all day long.

Bagley is such a no brainer pick, the only thing that could screw this up is if Vlade takes him instead.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Buzzard

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

In this small ball era of the NBA I  think Collins and Bagley could be better together than Bamba and Bagley. I want mobility, quickness, length, and the ability to be a threat on both ends of the floor. I think Prince, Bagley, Collins gives that all day long.

Bagley is such a no brainer pick, the only thing that could screw this up is if Vlade takes him instead.

Bamba is a lot more mobile than you are giving off. Now hes no damn Collins but he's as mobile as any 7ft footer that's not guard like

Edited May 19, 2018 by NBASupes

[Buzzard]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Bamba is a lot more mobile than you are giving off. Now hes no damn Collins but he's as mobile as any 7ft footer that's not guard like

Who said I don't think Bamba is a mobile center?. Here is what I think: neither Bagley nor Bamba can put the ball on the floor with Collins quickness and explosiveness. 

I am ecstatic with a front line of Prince, Bagley, Collins. 

[NBASupes]

Just now, Buzzard said:

Who said I don't think Bamba is a mobile center?. Here is what I think: neither Bagley nor Bamba can put the ball on the floor with Collins quickness and explosiveness. 

I am ecstatic with a front line of Prince, Bagley, Collins. 

Bagley is far more quicker, in fact superior quickness to Collins. Explosiveness is elite with both. 

[Buzzard]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Bagley is far more quicker, in fact superior quickness to Collins. Explosiveness is elite with both. 

What ever. He explodes straight up better but from 20 feet out Collins puts the ball on the floor and gets to the rim better. And it is not even a contest for either of them against Bamba. We have a chance to put together the most athletic front court in the East. Why screw that up to get someone who is a little slower just because he is bigger?

I like Bamba as a defensive big but will take Bagley over him all day long. I do not want to mortgage our future on Bamba when we have Collins. Lets keep our assets and draft a SG, PG or Combo Guard.

You think Bamba is worth a lot more than I do. It is that simple.

 

[NBASupes]

18 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

What ever. He explodes straight up better but from 20 feet out Collins puts the ball on the floor and gets to the rim better. And it is not even a contest for either of them against Bamba. We have a chance to put together the most athletic front court in the East. Why screw that up to get someone who is a little slower just because he is bigger?

I like Bamba as a defensive big but will take Bagley over him all day long. I do not want to mortgage our future on Bamba when we have Collins. Lets keep our assets and draft a SG, PG or Combo Guard.

You think Bamba is worth a lot more than I do. It is that simple.

 

No he doesn't. Collins has poor hands and poor handles. He struggles in space tremendously and likely always will like Smoove used to do. Bagley has an elite first step and elite speed and quickness for his size. There is no comparison. 

Having the most athletic frontcourt would mean more if both players didn't have average wingspans for their height and in Collins case, below average. They just aren't long enough. 

I would take Bagley over Bamba everyday as well. That's not the question. The question is, would I take Bamba next to Bagley over Collins next to Bagley and that's a no-brainer as well. 

 

We would still have the 19, 30, and 34. Not the mention the cap space to move up. We can still get Collin Sexton. 

 

My point is this: Collins(20/10 potential) and Prince(20-5-5) will be max contract candidates in two to three years. Why not get a guy in Bamba who is going to be more valuable than a young max contract to pair with Bagley who could be an MVP candidate at 22, have cap space to next year maybe attract a Kawhi Leonard or Jimmy Butler. It's a lot easier to get a superstar or star when you already got not just one but two potential stars/superstars. 

I literally think Bamba has more upside than Ayton. I am extremely high on Bamba but I am higher on Bagley the most. 

Edited May 19, 2018 by NBASupes

[Buzzard]

15 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

My point is this: Collins(20/10 potential) and Prince(20-5-5) will be max contract candidates in two to three years. Why not get a guy in Bamba who is going to be more valuable than a young max contract to pair with Bagley who could be an MVP candidate at 22, have cap space to next year maybe attract a Kawhi Leonard or Jimmy Butler. It's a lot easier to get a superstar or star when you already got not just one but two potential stars/superstars. 

 

 

If you want to win championships you have to pay max contracts and you need some resemblance of balance. I will take my chances with Collins and Prince to go along with Bagley. Bamba is being compared all over the place to DeAndre Jordon. I think that is a more than fair comparison. 12 and 15 would be a hell of a get at 4 or 5 in this draft.

The best player on the planet is getting worn down by Boston because the Cavs have no balance; and he is having to bust his ass for 40 minutes on both ends of the floor.  I am good with Prince, Collins, and Bagley. I hope like hell Schenk is to.

 

Edited May 19, 2018 by Buzzard

[NBASupes]

14 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

If you want to win championships you have to pay max contracts and you need some resemblance of balance. I will take my chances with Collins and Prince to go along with Bagley. Bamba is being compared all over the place to DeAndre Jordon. I think that is a more than fair comparison. 12 and 15 would be a hell of a get at 4 or 5 in this draft.

The best player on the planet is getting worn down by Boston because the Cavs have no balance; and he is having to bust his ass for 40 minutes on both ends of the floor.  I am good with Prince, Collins, and Bagley. I hope like hell Schenk is to.

 

That's fine. You are taking two potentially very good players over one potentially great player. In your opinion, maybe you think Bamba might just be potentially very good so it's terrible deal to you plus we take a crap contract which probably the worst in the NBA. But I see things differently. I really see the chance of getting the best frontcourt locked up for the next 15-20 seasons. 

We have a lot of cap space and flexibility. We can get more draft picks. We already got more than everyone else. 

Edited May 19, 2018 by NBASupes

[Buzzard]

The like button is not working for me. Something minor that needs to be fixed along with me having to refresh a page ( error page, refresh, then it displays ) every time I jump to a new portion of the board.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

The like button is not working for me. Something minor that needs to be fixed along with me having to refresh a page ( error page, refresh, then it displays ) every time I jump to a new portion of the board.

Yeah, it's not working at all. A number of the functions are currently limited. 

[TheFuzz]

The #3 pick all but guarantees one of Doncic or Bagley, and for that I am happy. Told y'all not to stress so much about the lottery lol

[DBac]

Bamba at 3 would make me root for Schlenk to be fired. That's so bad. Can at least root for Bagley since he's a dog on the court. The nicest thing anyone can say about Bamba is that he's long and talks well lol.

[Buzzard]

16 minutes ago, TheFuzz said:

The #3 pick all but guarantees one of Doncic or Bagley, and for that I am happy. Told y'all not to stress so much about the lottery lol

The conspiracy theory: No way the Cavs get another gift and rise up into the top three. The NBA tanking bad boy, Cuban, dropped out of the top three. With the conspiracy theory in play, I agree. We had absolutely nothing to worry about