Was Billy Knight ahead of his time?

[Wurider05]

Positionless basketball has become a reality. You can argue that he picked the wrong guys to execute his vision with but the idea was there.

[NBASupes]

He choose the wrong players outside of Horford and Joe.

[Dejay]

Not if he believed that Marvin Williams, Shelden Williams, and Josh Childress warranted top-10 lottery picks. Not if he honestly believed that Craig Claxton would play a full season.

I can do this all day...

[JayBirdHawk]

Seems like we had this discussion before. My answer still the same...No.

[sturt]

Building on @Wurider05's thought and/or getting at the essence of his question in a different way...

What do you imagine this this starting group would have accomplished had they gotten to play together for a few years?

Chris Paul

Joe Johnson

Luol Deng

Josh Smith

Al Horford

[nathan2331]

The idea was ahead of it's time, but he was a terrible assessor of talent.

[Diesel]

I would say that BK was ahead of his time he just didn't have the right personality to curry enough favor to see the idea through it's broken period.    The idea requires that you have each element from a classical lineup still present in guys that range from 6'5 - 6'10.. long, athletic, and uptempo.   Somebody was correct in pointing out that the loss of Claxton was a big problem because he was necessary.  We had to pick up Bibby who didn't play the defense.   Then Marvin and Shelden were missteps.    Chillz could have worked in the system.   We could have had Iguodala but at the time, I think Chillz possessed more in Ball handling skills.. but his shot was ugly.   The biggest problem was Smoove.   Smoove was before his time with not enough essential skills.   Smoove wanted to be a stretch 4.  unheard of until after him.   However, He didn't possess the shooting ability to be that.   Had he had a good outside Shot, BK would still be celebrated. 

 

[HawkItus]

His missed steps were D Williams and Iggy

DWILL

JJ

Iggy

MW

AL

 

sixth man J Smith.   

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

His missed steps were D Williams and Iggy

DWILL

JJ

Iggy

MW

AL

 

sixth man J Smith.   

You can't have Marvin Williams and Dwill.   While I do agree that Marvin should have been picked in the late first...  Dwill would have had to come in the place where we did get Marvin. 

Iggy is a toss up for me.   I know he has had longevity and I know he started well, but his ball handling and his unselfishness was not something that he had coming in. 

[sturt]

Okay, I guess I'll answer my own question.

That team would have almost certainly competed for an NBA championship with just an average bench.

The question was a matter of philosophy/talent acquisition principles... not execution.

Give the man his due.

[HawkItus]

17 hours ago, Diesel said:

You can't have Marvin Williams and Dwill.   While I do agree that Marvin should have been picked in the late first...  Dwill would have had to come in the place where we did get Marvin. 

Iggy is a toss up for me.   I know he has had longevity and I know he started well, but his ball handling and his unselfishness was not something that he had coming in. 

Right I forgot Marvin being in the same draft.   Either way his size would have been more in line with BK's thinking than Paul.

[High5]

21 hours ago, sturt said:

Building on @Wurider05's thought and/or getting at the essence of his question in a different way...

What do you imagine this this starting group would have accomplished had they gotten to play together for a few years?

Chris Paul

Joe Johnson

Luol Deng

Josh Smith

Al Horford

We couldn't have drafted Horford with Paul. 

[High5]

18 hours ago, Diesel said:

Smoove wanted to be a stretch 4.  unheard of until after him.

We literally traded an All Star stretch 4 for the draft pick we used on Josh. 

[Dejay]

Okay, I'll bite (again)...

First off, had he simply gotten the Jefferson (my preference back then) and Paul picks right, the team would've very likely not been in a position to draft Shelden much less Horford because those guys were far better players than who BK picked up. Now assuming that Woodson has the sense to play these guys instead of the veteran jabrones riding the pines, let's say for cracks and giggles that they won 35 games in the '05-06 season instead of 26. Shelden would've still been available because, well, he's pathetic but let's say that they got Brandon Roy or Rudy Gay instead.

So now instead of trying to sell us this the following season...

Claxton/JJ/Williams/Smith/Pachulia

They have this instead...

Paul/JJ/Gay/Smith/Jefferson

You have a HOF point guard, a perennial All-Star at the 2, a career 18/6 small forward in Gay, Osh not having to take 24-foot jumpers at power forward, and Jefferson at the pivot who was a 19/10 guy in his prime years starting for the squad instead of the (insert expletive here) lineup we were subjected to. No one can say with a straight face that this bunch would've also gone 30-52 as the team above did to draft Horford. That group likely makes the playoffs and by not having to sell the farm to get Claxton, trade for Bibby, then resign Bibby, there is much more left in the kitty to replenish the bench with. Also, JJ doesn't have the leverage to demand a max deal from having to carry the team with the dearth of talent riding shotgun alongside him, thus saving even more $$$ to keep the team together for an extended run that would've likely been deeper than a few second-round knockouts.

Had BK brought this to the table as being part of his grand plan, I would've been one of the first ones here singing his praises about his foresight and vision. The team would've had no problems with free agency as REAL players would've been chomping at the bit to play with JJ and Paul instead of constantly diving into the recycle bin for bench guys every summer. And on top of that, we would no longer be having annual debates about the empty seats during home games; not with that lineup, we're not.

But alas, that didn't happen. So no, he doesn't get the credit...

[FL_BRYANT]

Having graduated from the University of Pittsburgh this is an opinion I have always held.  People love to beat up on Knight with out giving credit to his vision of how basketball should and would be played. Hind site on the draft picks shows he missed on some picks . Not sure but off the top of my head didn't he draft Pau Gasol and Boris Diaw? Plus Marvin is still in the league. If anyone  set this franchise behind it was Pete Babcock.  Knight's teams went on a long playoff run. 

Plus Billy was a Hell of a ballplayer.

 

 

[sturt]

4 hours ago, High5 said:

We couldn't have drafted Horford with Paul. 

1. The larger point is about the player acquisition philosophy, so even if we assume that, we can't assume that there wouldn't have been a similar C to Horford acquired via FA or trade.

2. We can't actually assume that. Paul had not yet played in his first ASG when Horford was drafted, and moreover, he missed almost 20 games that previous season. Hard to say with great certainty how his presence in 64 games would have affected the final results of the season.

 

[bird_dirt]

Here we go again.

[jhay610]

1 hour ago, bird_dirt said:

Here we go again.

Word. All these years later -- this is so sad. The plight of the Hawks fan, I guess. 

[JayBirdHawk]

4 hours ago, FL_BRYANT said:

Having graduated from the University of Pittsburgh this is an opinion I have always held.  People love to beat up on Knight with out giving credit to his vision of how basketball should and would be played. Hind site on the draft picks shows he missed on some picks . Not sure but off the top of my head didn't he draft Pau Gasol and Boris Diaw? Plus Marvin is still in the league. If anyone  set this franchise behind it was Pete Babcock.  Knight's teams went on a long playoff run. 

Plus Billy was a Hell of a ballplayer.

 

 

Yes he drafted Pau but traded Pau for Abdur-Raheem. So it could be that Memphis told the Hawks who to take on their behalf.

Diaw didn't fit the style of play that the coach wanted.

Chris Paul is still in the league too.

[FL_BRYANT]

We can't talk about championships!

Diaw is a perfect ballplayer for this era of play.  He was drafted as a pg and end up playing 3,4,and 5. No one in Atlanta saw that. My hope is one day we can talk about championships. 

Come on Hawks get it done.