Baze's Time...

[DrReality]

Per Bleacher

While Bazemore may still have some value to team after averaging nearly 13 points per game last season, his contract is too expensive for a team to trade for him without some kind of financial agreement or even a buyout—he's making north of $18 million this upcoming season.
If the Hawks want to deal him, a buyout could be the way to go. A team that kind of makes sense for Bazemore could be the Oklahoma City Thunder where he may even have a starting role. Dealing Bazemore and washing their hands of the overpriced contract in exchange for some capital to rebuild is the best move.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 7/1/2018 at 6:35 PM, Watchman said:

Cap space is worthless when free agents don't want to sign with you.  When the only contracts you take on in trades are garbage contracts like Plumlee, (that no one in their right mind would want,) you are stuck in a bad place.  Therefore, early first or second round exits are better than being perennial doormats. 

I totally agree.   At least you can go to pay for a game, and expect them to win more than 60% of the time.  Now, you're leaving the arena disappointed more often than not.

Indiana understands this, which is why you'll NEVER see them tank.

[marco102]

19 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I totally agree.   At least you can go to pay for a game, and expect them to win more than 60% of the time.  Now, you're leaving the arena disappointed more often than not.

Indiana understands this, which is why you'll NEVER see them win a championship!

Fixed.   I for the life of me don't see why you guys are rehashing this tanking thing.   We are hear.  Deal with it.  Let's hope this path leads to a Championship in the next decade.  

In all other sports, there's a period of excellence and then a down period where teams rebuild.  Y'all acting like tanking doesn't happen all the damn time.  Jesus just get over it.  We are rebuilding nothing you or any one can do to change it.  Just hope for the best.

[Thomas]

Bazemore just doesn't seem to irritate me so much any more sense he is a swing who could give any team some decent minutes (just not starting ones). Yeah I know...the salary, the salary. But look at the hotter topic. Dennis and the law with a couple of foolish comments about his individual future which seems to dish the team concept as well as his salary, Trae is here now and definitely needs time to develop and then IT was sent packing because of a 1.5 mil salary. PG seems much wilder than anything about Gaze right now. Think we will be getting a great draft pick again next year. PG to me is just such an incredibly important position on the floor.  

[AHF]

I never liked that resigning of Baze at that price point but I was very happy last season that we at least realized he is a SG and not someone who can regularly guards forwards.  Put him in a position to be much more successful than when we were trying to pretend he was a starting SF.

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I never liked that resigning of Baze at that price point but I was very happy last season that we at least realized he is a SG and not someone who can regularly guards forwards.  Put him in a position to be much more successful than when we were trying to pretend he was a starting SF.

Baze is interesting for sure. He is just good enough to help a contender; and good enough to push us closer towards a 10th pick instead of a 1-5 pick. Same for Dennis.

I think Dennis and Baze is a 15 to 20 rank back court when playing together; now add in Prince, Collins, and Dedmon, we will be bad again but not as bad as we were last year when everyone was missing games.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Buzzard said:

Baze is interesting for sure. He is just good enough to help a contender; and good enough to push us closer towards a 10th pick instead of a 1-5 pick. Same for Dennis.

I think Dennis and Baze is a 15 to 20 rank back court when playing together; now add in Prince, Collins, and Dedmon, we will be bad again but not as bad as we were last year when everyone was missing games.

I think Dennis is around a 15th ranked PG and Baze is around a 30th ranked SG.  Without looking at actual backcourts to rank them, I'd definitely guess we are not in the top 20.

[Buzzard]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think Dennis is around a 15th ranked PG and Baze is around a 30th ranked SG.  Without looking at actual backcourts to rank them, I'd definitely guess we are not in the top 20.

I disagree on Baze. Offensively 25 to 30 but take his defense and rebounding into account that moves his needle. Example, I would take him over JR Smith on either end of the floor all day long. Do you agree with that?

[AHF]

34 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I disagree on Baze. Offensively 25 to 30 but take his defense and rebounding into account that moves his needle. Example, I would take him over JR Smith on either end of the floor all day long. Do you agree with that?

JR Smith is not close to a top SG.  I would take him over JR overall but definitely take JR if I needed scoring.

[Buzzard]

Just now, AHF said:

JR Smith is not close to a top SG.  I would take him over JR overall but definitely take JR if I needed scoring.

Who said he was? I just said Baze is netter than him. I said Dennis and Baze combined where in the 15 to 20 range, That is not a top anything. It is pretty average ( 15 )  to slightly below average ( 20 ).

I will stick with that and if Dennis improves his 3pt range, it makes a 15 to 20 back court a no brainer.

[AHF]

Here are some SGs that have been better than Baze over the last couple seasons:

Harden

Butler

Oladipo

DeRozan

LouWill

Beal

McCollum

Mitchell

Harris

Klay

Redick

Fournier

Gordon

Wade

Batum

Lamb

Hood

 

Then there are a bunch I'd put him in the mix with.  The last two seasons in Estimated Wins Added among SGs he ranked tied for 21st in 2017-18 and tied for 42nd in 2016-17.

 

1 minute ago, Buzzard said:

Who said he was? I just said Baze is netter than him. I said Dennis and Baze combined where in the 15 to 20 range, That is not a top anything. It is pretty average ( 15 )  to slightly below average ( 20 ).

I will stick with that and if Dennis improves his 3pt range, it makes a 15 to 20 back court a no brainer.

That backcourt is below average.  Let me know the 15 teams they are better than.

[Diesel]

Regardless of where Baze ranks.

If we can get rid of Dennis. Baze can become the face of our struggling team AND do well. 

[Buzzard]

21 minutes ago, AHF said:

Here are some SGs that have been better than Baze over the last couple seasons:

Harden

Butler

Oladipo

DeRozan

LouWill

Beal

McCollum

Mitchell

Harris

Klay

Redick

Fournier

Gordon

Wade

Batum

Lamb

Hood

 

Then there are a bunch I'd put him in the mix with.  The last two seasons in Estimated Wins Added among SGs he ranked tied for 21st in 2017-18 and tied for 42nd in 2016-17.

 

That backcourt is below average.  Let me know the 15 teams they are better than.

That is 17 players ahead of Bazemore by your own ranking. If Dennis is around 17 also, that makes them somewhere in the range I said. 15 - 20. Is there something about 15 to 20 being average to below average I did not make clear?

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, Buzzard said:

That is 17 players ahead of Bazemore by your own ranking. If Dennis is around 17 also, that makes them somewhere in the range I said. 15 - 20. Is there something about 15 to 20 being average to below average I did not make clear?

Sure you put Dennis on the floor.  But Character adds to the ranking.   That puts him at 40. 

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

Sure you put Dennis on the floor.  But Character adds to the ranking.   That puts him at 40. 

Then there is about 100 NBA players that should have been banned from the NBA HOF, We can start with Kobe and Magic, then keep digging lol.

[AHF]

51 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

That is 17 players ahead of Bazemore by your own ranking. If Dennis is around 17 also, that makes them somewhere in the range I said. 15 - 20. Is there something about 15 to 20 being average to below average I did not make clear?

17 clearly ahead and him in the pack with 10 or so guys in the 18-28 range.  Also forgot Devin Booker so knock him down to 18 I'd clearly take over him and put him in the 19-29 range.

For backcourts I'd trade Dennis/Baze for without hesitating I give you:

Lowry / DeRozan

Irving / Hayward

Hiill / Hood

Collison / Oladipo

Dragic / Richardson

Wall / Beal

Walker / Batum

Dinwiddie / Russell 

Fultz / Redick

Dunn / LaVine

Paul / Harden

Curry / Thompson

Lillard / McCollum

Westbrook / Roberson

Rubio / Mitchell

Rondo / Holiday

Teague / Butler

Murray / Harris

Ball / KCP

Fox / Bogdanovich

Smith / Doncic

Conley / Evans

Okobo / Booker

 

 

If you include point forwards as the points or factor in people who swing between SG and SF but played primarily SF last season, I would also take this trio faster than you could say "wait a second, let me think about that offer":

Simmons / Redick (I'd trade Dennis and Baze for Fultz / Redick as well as noted above)

LeBron / anyone

Bledsoe / Middleton

 

 

For backcourts that I clearly prefer Dennis / Baze to:

Jackson / Bullock (prefer Dennis and Baze to both)

Jack / Hardaway (because of Jack - Hardaway and Baze are similarly value overpaid, subpar starting SGs)

Augustine / Fournier (because of Augustine)

Murray / Green (prefer Dennis and Baze to both)

Rivers / Johnson (prefer Dennis and Baze to both)

 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Buzzard said:

Then there is about 100 NBA players that should have been banned from the NBA HOF, We can start with Kobe and Magic, then keep digging lol.

Some of them played when Character didn't matter as much.   Dennis has court trials, he has had fights on and off the floor...  He has refused to play with certain players and pass them the ball because of Character.... Just like Cousins didn't get 1 call mostly because of his character, Dennis can't be easily traded because of his. 

[Diesel]

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

17 clearly ahead and him in the pack with 10 or so guys in the 18-28 range.  Also forgot Devin Booker so knock him down to 18 I'd clearly take over him and put him in the 19-29 range.

For backcourts I'd trade Dennis/Baze for without hesitating I give you:

Lowry / DeRozan

Irving / Hayward

Hiill / Hood

Collison / Oladipo

Dragic / Richardson

Wall / Beal

Walker / Batum

Dinwiddie / Russell 

Fultz / Redick

Dunn / LaVine

Paul / Harden

Curry / Thompson

Lillard / McCollum

Westbrook / Roberson

Rubio / Mitchell

Rondo / Holiday

Teague / Butler

Murray / Harris

Ball / KCP

Fox / Bogdanovich

Smith / Doncic

Conley / Evans

Okobo / Booker

 

 

If you include point forwards as the points or factor in people who swing between SG and SF but played primarily SF last season, I would also take this trio faster than you could say "wait a second, let me think about that offer":

Simmons / Redick (I'd trade Dennis and Baze for Fultz / Redick as well as noted above)

LeBron / anyone

Bledsoe / Middleton

 

 

For backcourts that I clearly prefer Dennis / Baze to:

Jackson / Bullock (prefer Dennis and Baze to both)

Jack / Hardaway (because of Jack - Hardaway and Baze are similarly value overpaid, subpar starting SGs)

Augustine / Fournier (because of Augustine)

Murray / Green (prefer Dennis and Baze to both)

Rivers / Johnson (prefer Dennis and Baze to both)

 

 

Fultz Ridick?

[Buzzard]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

17 clearly ahead and him in the pack with 10 or so guys in the 18-28 range.  Also forgot Devin Booker so knock him down to 18 I'd clearly take over him and put him in the 19-29 range.

For backcourts I'd trade Dennis/Baze for without hesitating I give you:

Lowry / DeRozan

Irving / Hayward

Hiill / Hood

Collison / Oladipo

Dragic / Richardson

Wall / Beal

Walker / Batum

Dinwiddie / Russell 

Fultz / Redick

Dunn / LaVine

Paul / Harden

Curry / Thompson

Lillard / McCollum

Westbrook / Roberson

Rubio / Mitchell

Rondo / Holiday

Teague / Butler

Murray / Harris

Ball / KCP

Fox / Bogdanovich

Smith / Doncic

Conley / Evans

Okobo / Booker

 

 

If you include point forwards as the points or factor in people who swing between SG and SF but played primarily SF last season, I would also take this trio faster than you could say "wait a second, let me think about that offer":

Simmons / Redick (I'd trade Dennis and Baze for Fultz / Redick as well as noted above)

LeBron / anyone

Bledsoe / Middleton

 

 

For backcourts that I clearly prefer Dennis / Baze to:

Jackson / Bullock (prefer Dennis and Baze to both)

Jack / Hardaway (because of Jack - Hardaway and Baze are similarly value overpaid, subpar starting SGs)

Augustine / Fournier (because of Augustine)

Murray / Green (prefer Dennis and Baze to both)

Rivers / Johnson (prefer Dennis and Baze to both)

 

 

You and Diesel can be just as agitating with skewing the Convo. I said 15 to 20 back courts and somehow that equates in your brain to Bron needing to get a mention God you two are a hoot. The ones I put in bold text I question 100% and you may want to check where Rondo is playing

If Baze and Dennis play together a full season they will be cause for us to not be in the 1 - 5 as the worse teams in the NBA, I think you and quite a few will be severely pissed as we win 30 - 35 games. They are a 15 through 20 backcourt and could be even better if Dennis improves his 3pt shot.

[High5]

I agree that top 20 is fair for Dennis/Baze. Several of those listed backcourts may project to be better down the road, but they aren't better today.