thecampster Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 So private talks with others have led to this post. So many posters on this board are relying on stat lines to prove their chosen player is going to be a beast at the NBA level. Forget that 3 of 10 top 10 picks solidly fit the bust profile. So I thought I'd give you all a stat line or 2 and ask you where you'd draft these players. I'll reveal the player names over the weekend. These are final year of college stats for random players Player 1 18.7 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 2.3 apg. 2.4 bpg Player 2 15.5 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 2.5 apg Player 3 19.6 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 2.1 apg Player 4 15.1 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.1 apg Player 5 15.3 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 6.6 apg Player 6 28.1 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.7 apg Player 7 22.2 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 2.9 bpg So go ahead draft experts, tell me where you would draft each player. No cheating! Player 1 - Player 2 - Player 3 - Player 4 - Player 5 - Player 6 - Player 7 - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecampster Posted June 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 Here, I'll add an eighth. Player 8 - 18.8 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 3.8 bpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 1 minute ago, thecampster said: Here, I'll add an eighth. Player 8 - 18.8 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 3.8 bpg. 3.8 blocks? Damn! 18.8 a game. Who's that, prime Alonzo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted June 15, 2018 Moderators Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 It would help a lot for context to put in measurements, conference and age. Pure counting numbers from box scores don't give you much to go on. Seeing 20.9 points, 5.2 assists, 4.2 rebounds, 1.3 steals without the context that this is 5'11'' senior Frank Mason or seeing 22.3 ppg, 5.8 apg, 5.6 rpg without knowing that this is a senior (Nate Wolters) putting these numbers up against the competition seen by South Dakota St gives you very little to chew on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecampster Posted June 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 22 minutes ago, NBASupes said: 3.8 blocks? Damn! 18.8 a game. Who's that, prime Alonzo? Some of these players turned out to be stars, some are bagging groceries, the question is who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecampster Posted June 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, AHF said: It would help a lot for context to put in measurements, conference and age. Pure counting numbers from box scores don't give you much to go on. Seeing 20.9 points, 5.2 assists, 4.2 rebounds, 1.3 steals without the context that this is 5'11'' senior Frank Mason or seeing 22.3 ppg, 5.8 apg, 5.6 rpg without knowing that this is a senior (Nate Wolters) putting these numbers up against the competition seen by South Dakota St gives you very little to chew on. That's the point of this thread. Most people (myself included to some extent) are going off eyeballing and stats. Just seeing how people would draft people if there are no names (ie...peer pressure, "expert" articles to go by). Go ahead, just guess what their draft position should be/should have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted June 15, 2018 Moderators Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 Just now, thecampster said: That's the point of this thread. Most people (myself included to some extent) are going off eyeballing and stats. Just seeing how people would draft people if there are no names (ie...peer pressure, "expert" articles to go by). Raw numbers without additional context will give you about as much to go on as alphabetizing them by third letter of their middle name. I can already tell you that without more context, I cannot tell them apart at all. So point made with me here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecampster Posted June 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 Should I spoil it with their actual names? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted June 15, 2018 Premium Member Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 To AHFs point context matters, teammates, coaches, age, position they play etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecampster Posted June 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 For example - compare player 1, 7 and 8 with Jaren Jackson Jr.'s stats 10.9 ppg, 5.3rpg, 3.0 bpg Or Ayton's 20.1 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 2.0 bpg or Mo Bamba 12.9 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 3.7 bpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted June 15, 2018 Moderators Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 I think college numbers should be part of the conversation with prospects but @thecampster is right when he says you need a more fulsome discussion of a lot more than just those numbers. The numbers don't tell you much by themselves but I would say that certain numbers can be a red flag or a positive part of a player's profile with context. Fortunately, I think most of our posters have been drawing on more than raw numbers for most of these discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 1 minute ago, thecampster said: For example - compare player 1, 7 and 8 with Jaren Jackson Jr.'s stats 10.9 ppg, 5.3rpg, 3.0 bpg Or Ayton's 20.1 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 2.0 bpg or Mo Bamba 12.9 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 3.7 bpg Or Joel Embiid's 11.1 PPG, 8.2 RPG, and 2.6 BPG. Raw stats like this don't tell the story. I'm more interested in efficiency and impact on winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFuzz Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 No point in drafting a player without some tape. And if we can't see the tape, I'll need more than box score stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecampster Posted June 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 Now we're getting it. 1 minute ago, KB21 said: Or Joel Embiid's 11.1 PPG, 8.2 RPG, and 2.6 BPG. Raw stats like this don't tell the story. I'm more interested in efficiency and impact on winning. But go ahead...give it a shot....play along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted June 15, 2018 Moderators Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 Agreed. For example, PPG without shooting %s and an understanding of team role and other elements of context is useless even if you are purely looking at the numbers. Same for %s by themselves. You need to know if someone is getting double teamed, is the team's 4th option, is spreading the floor, can sustain efficient scoring beyond a secondary or tertiary option role, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecampster Posted June 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 So for example, if I were ranking these players purely on stats and discussion on this board. 1. draft ranking around 6 2. draft ranking around 10 3. draft ranking around 15 4. draft ranking around 15 5. Draft ranking around 20 6. Draft ranking #1 7. Draft ranking #2 8. Draft ranking 1-4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecampster Posted June 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 Now...who are the players listed? Player 1 – Mike Muscala Player 2 – Kawhi Leonard Player 3 – Michael Jordan Player 4 – Charles Barkley Player 5 – Chris Paul Player 6 – Adam Morrison Player 7 – Michael OlowoKandi Player 8 – Sheldon Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBac Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 I agree that you can't go just off numbers but having their class would've helped as far as ranking them goes. A 22 ppg freshman more appealing than a 22ppg senior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillent Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 19 hours ago, thecampster said: So private talks with others have led to this post. So many posters on this board are relying on stat lines to prove their chosen player is going to be a beast at the NBA level. Forget that 3 of 10 top 10 picks solidly fit the bust profile. So I thought I'd give you all a stat line or 2 and ask you where you'd draft these players. I'll reveal the player names over the weekend. These are final year of college stats for random players Player 1 18.7 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 2.3 apg. 2.4 bpg Player 2 15.5 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 2.5 apg Player 3 19.6 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 2.1 apg Player 4 15.1 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.1 apg Player 5 15.3 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 6.6 apg Player 6 28.1 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.7 apg Player 7 22.2 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 2.9 bpg So go ahead draft experts, tell me where you would draft each player. No cheating! Player 1 - #2 Player 2 - #3 Player 3 - #7 Player 4 - #4 Player 5 - #5 Player 6 - #6 Player 7 - #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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