Supes v. KB, Nope! Just some JJJ v. Marvin Bagley talk

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Third highest BPM among freshmen all time.  He produced.  Oh, he didn't produce the flash you want, but he did produce to a similar level as Anthony Davis, Karl Anthony Towns, and Joel Embiiid, whereas Bagley produced more at the level of Jahlil Okafor.

How come he didn’t get more PT? Needed to be coddled, did he? 

[KB21]

Just now, AHF said:

You'd agree he wasn't a significant factor for MSt in the NCAA tournament, right?  I think you are looking full season while others are focusing on the tourney.

Others are looking for any reason they can to knock him because he is the player I have identified as the guy who should be the top target for the Hawks.  

[Flight]

8 minutes ago, GThawks3 said:

So JJJ equates to winning games at the NBA level yet he couldn’t even get crucial minutes in college at the most important part of their season? Makes sense.

BIG facts.

[KB21]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

How come he didn’t get more PT? Needed to be coddled, did he? 

Tom Izzo rarely gives freshman major minutes.  He still coaches, unlike Coach K who has become a harbinger for AAU habits.

[Spud2nique]

Just now, KB21 said:

Others are looking for any reason they can to knock him because he is the player I have identified as the guy who should be the top target for the Hawks.  

Why would I do that I don’t even know you? I’m just judging players by their history and their attributes...JJJ doesn’t seem to qualify for a top 7 guy to me. 

 

Also so judging by our own player history. We had a guy that was all bent from the hip, couldn’t produce for himself or anyone else and played limited minutes in college and we took him 2nd overall..we aren’t taking JJJ 3rd. Imo. We still could but that would be pretty dumb.

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Others are looking for any reason they can to knock him because he is the player I have identified as the guy who should be the top target for the Hawks.  

I don't think it is all about you, though.  You were the first one pumping Doncic on this site and he is the most popular pick among Squawkers.  When you watch a guy get benched in his team's most important games it is concerning.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

Why would I do that I don’t even know you? I’m just judging players by their history and their attributes...JJJ doesn’t seem to qualify for a top 7 guy to me. 

 

Also so judging by our own player history. We had a guy that was all bent from the hip, couldn’t produce for himself or anyone else and played limited minutes in college and we took him 2nd overall..we aren’t taking JJJ 3rd. Imo. We still could but that would be pretty dumb.

You clearly aren't watching.

[EazyRoc]

5 minutes ago, GThawks3 said:

So JJJ equates to winning games at the NBA level yet he couldn’t even get crucial minutes in college at the most important part of their season? Makes sense.

Critical thinking for the win. He has 2 other lottery-quality prospects playing with him. He wasn’t even the best BIG on his team. JJJ could be really good, but to pretend like he is a guaranteed difference maker is non sense. Whatever he will become will take more time than any top 10 prospect not named Bamba. He may not perform nearly as well against higher skilled, bigger, and more athletic opponents. He doesn’t do anything well at the pro level other than shoot. It’s a high price to pay for a bench riding stretch 4 who you HOPE can develop the discipline to use his skills to be a great defender. Bagley has shown he can put the ball in the basket. His only glaring offensive weakness is his off hand finishing ability. He is very athletic and gives maximum effort which will translate. He likely won’t be a good rim defender, but has the RAW tools to be a good perimeter defender. It’s less of stretch to believe Bagley will be a offensive superstar than to believe JJJ will be a defensive superstar.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I don't think it is all about you, though.  You were the first one pumping Doncic on this site and he is the most popular pick among Squawkers.  When you watch a guy get benched in his team's most important games it is concerning.

JJJ didn't get benched because of his play.  He got benched because Tom Izzo values experience in big game situations.  He's always been that way.  Nick Ward also got benched against Syracuse, which goes to show it that it was more questionable coaching from Izzo's standpoint than anything.  

[KB21]

1 minute ago, EazyRoc said:

Critical thinking for the win. He has 2 other lottery-quality prospects playing with him. He wasn’t even the best BIG on his team. JJJ could be really good, but to pretend like he is a guaranteed difference maker is non sense. Whatever he will become will take more time than any top 10 prospect not named Bamba. He may not perform nearly as well against higher skilled, bigger, and more athletic opponents. He doesn’t do anything well at the pro level other than shoot. It’s a high price to pay for a bench riding stretch 4 who you HOPE can develop the discipline to use his skills to be a great defender. Bagley has shown he can put the ball in the basket. His only glaring offensive weakness is his off hand finishing ability. He is very athletic and gives maximum effort which will translate. He likely won’t be a good rim defender, but has the RAW tools to be a good perimeter defender. It’s less of stretch to believe Bagley will be a offensive superstar than to believe JJJ will be a defensive superstar.

Actually, it's more of a stretch to expect Bagley to become an offensive superstar when he can't go to his right, is a below average ball handler therefore limiting his creation ability, and is a complete non shooter.  Bagley is the guy that wasn't the best big on his team.  That was Wendell Carter Jr (and DeLaurier is a better defender).  JJJ was clearly the best big on Michigan State's team and also the best defender in that conference, the best freshman in that conference, and the best freshman nationally.   

[Threezus]

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Tom Izzo rarely gives freshman major minutes.  He still coaches, unlike Coach K who has become a harbinger for AAU habits.

Well i was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on most things up until this post right here.  When you knock on Coach K you have no credibility any more imo.

[KB21]

Just now, falconfan13 said:

Well i was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on most things up until this post right here.  When you knock on Coach K you have no credibility any more imo.

Coach K stopped coaching about 5 years ago.

[AHF]

JJJ can definitely block shots at a pro level.  With his length, timing and athleticism, that will translate very well.

 

[Spud2nique]

12 minutes ago, KB21 said:

You clearly aren't watching.

Oh I tried...but JJJ didn’t get any PT so I gave up trying to watch. Then I turned on the Duke game and Bagley was ballin! Went to the Oklahoma game and Trae was killin it! Came back to Mich St. and didn’t see JJJ again.

 

It wasn’t my fault you see I tried. Fool just can’t crack a college rotation and you think he’s a top 3 pick. 

Yes, clearly I haven’t been watching..

[Flight]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

JJJ can definitely block shots at a pro level.  With his length, timing and athleticism, that will translate very well.

 

That and his wide open jumpers are pretty much the only thing I can see translating for sure right now.

He’s just not a pick that’s really exciting honestly. He didn’t even average 20 points (around 15 unfortunately) in high school. It’d be disheartening to build with complimentary players before having anyone with potential to be a star.

[terrell]

15 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Tom Izzo rarely gives freshman major minutes.  He still coaches, unlike Coach K who has become a harbinger for AAU habits.

Miles Bridges averaged 32 min as a Freshman..

[GThawks3]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Actually, it's more of a stretch to expect Bagley to become an offensive superstar when he can't go to his right, is a below average ball handler therefore limiting his creation ability, and is a complete non shooter.  Bagley is the guy that wasn't the best big on his team.  That was Wendell Carter Jr (and DeLaurier is a better defender).  JJJ was clearly the best big on Michigan State's team and also the best defender in that conference, the best freshman in that conference, and the best freshman nationally.   

Bagley is actually a very good ball handler for his size. Not many 6’11 guys can handle the ball like him. And I watched many Duke games as well as Wendell Carter at Pace a few times and he’s a tier below Bagley. 

[terrell]

16 minutes ago, KB21 said:

JJJ didn't get benched because of his play.  He got benched because Tom Izzo values experience in big game situations.  He's always been that way.  Nick Ward also got benched against Syracuse, which goes to show it that it was more questionable coaching from Izzo's standpoint than anything.  

Nope. Its because he was getting schooled by Moritz Wagner..JJJ was a -18 that game.And he was 5-13 from the floor..

[terrell]

And two of JJJ makes came in garbage time, when the game was over.....So yeah, Id say he was benched because of his play..

[EazyRoc]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Actually, it's more of a stretch to expect Bagley to become an offensive superstar when he can't go to his right, is a below average ball handler therefore limiting his creation ability, and is a complete non shooter.  Bagley is the guy that wasn't the best big on his team.  That was Wendell Carter Jr (and DeLaurier is a better defender).  JJJ was clearly the best big on Michigan State's team and also the best defender in that conference, the best freshman in that conference, and the best freshman nationally.   

Bagley can and does go to his right. Stop getting secondhand information and watch tape. What he can’t do is FINISH with his right. He is an above average ball handler for a big. He produced as the lead dog not as the 3rd or 4th option. His shooting ability in college for a big was average. You haven’t been able to argue your points without pure hyperbole and complete abandonment of facts. All you can bring to the table is cherry picked analysis (opinion). 

You are also, once again, being extremely hypocritical putting weight on JJJs accolades (popularity contest remember ?), but let me guess...Bagleys Player of the Year AND Freshman of the Year don’t matter. Not only that, Duke chose Bagley (not Carter) as their MVP. 

The best freshman nationally was Trae Young.