Supes v. KB, Nope! Just some JJJ v. Marvin Bagley talk

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Page 103-108. You didn't respond to the video once. You just ran and started talking about BPM and you wanted to make a bet with me and then you agreed to a $100 bet that you said Bagley wouldn't have a BPM above the negatives (-). I said he will have one in the positives (-). That bet is it still on. I will gladly be taking your money via PayPal. 

Again, I addressed it.  Nothing you said was true.  This is really the mountain you want to die on.  

[NBASupes]

Just now, KB21 said:

Again, I addressed it.  Nothing you said was true.  This is really the mountain you want to die on.  

You didn't address it. You didn't even watch none of the videos. We see your posts. If you would have at least responded. I would have said, you responded, I didn't agree and that was that. 

[DBac]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

You are not trying to reply seriously. You just (THRILL! ~lw3) posters. You didn't respond. You just take a part of what I say, twisted it up and then do it again. How can anyone have a conversation with you when that's your method of communication. Unless you want to really communicate like an adult and stop (THRILLING! ~lw3), then I have nothing further to say to you. At least the old you would just be dead wrong and continue. This new you post surgery sucks. You are mean and resort to (BEING TRILL! ~lw3). I rather not talk to you if that's how you want to handle yourself. 

 The edits are top notch here. I'm LOLing.

[NBASupes]

Post real time game footage numerous times...

KB responds by posting cut clips from YouTubers of Bagley. 

Then does it again for JJJ. 

That is not an honest retort KB. 

[Spud2nique]

40 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Supes and kb21..lol

 

 

@kg01 r u watching this lol

[NBASupes]

Honestly, I've said this better. It's not a honest discussion as Bagley is just a superior prospect. For JJJ, it's more fair for it to be him v. Bamba. 

It's more fair. Both are around the same level. Bamba with more talent, tools and size while JJJ has more advanced skills, better defensive versatility and better body. There is really an argument with these two. I seems like KB avoids it because the issue is, he can't overly use the fit thing v. Bamba and the biggest issue is Bamba could potentially be better in the metrics and that bothers KB more than anything. It makes him feel good that even if he's dead wrong on Bagley, he can push that JJJ is next in line. I want to change the topic. I want Bamba v. JJJ. I like Bamba much more and feel had has the potential to be a superior player. I don't want this JJJ v. Bagley narrative anymore because it's not comp to me. Bagley is superior, end of story. But if the Kings draft him. KB Jackson Jr will prop up JJJ. I can't have that. From now on, I am no longer addressing Bagley/JJJ. Just Bagley alone or if someone other than KB asks. My focus is on Bamba v. JJJ. 

 

This is the last time I am addressing KB ever on the Bagley/JJJ topic. The end. 

[Spud2nique]

JJJ is the new Eddie Griffin..same game..Eddie Griffin was 7 points 5.8 rebounds 1.7 blocks. 

 

 

[NBASupes]

54 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

JJJ is the new Eddie Griffin..same game..Eddie Griffin was 7 points 5.8 rebounds 1.7 blocks. 

 

 

I see some similarities. I am pretty sure if JJJ played the same amount of minutes, his stats would be similar
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/eddie-griffin-1.html

[NBASupes]

While I think Ibaka is a bit of a reach as Ibaka post defense was much much better and his core strength and coordination was much much better, I do see a lot of OKC Ibaka, especially young Ibaka in JJJ as DX has stated: 

 

 

[NBASupes]

I like Robert Williams a lot. A LOT. Not for the Hawks of course but just in general

 

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

I like Robert Williams a lot. A LOT. Not for the Hawks of course but just in general

 

I agree if we end up with that Nuggets pick at 14, he slides right into Lloyd’s suffocating defense very smoothly. Agile big that can move and is an incredible athlete. He won’t last till 19th pick no way.

[NBASupes]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

I agree if we end up with that Nuggets pick at 14, he slides right into Lloyd’s suffocating defense very smoothly. Agile big that can move and is an incredible athlete. He won’t last till 19th pick no way.

I am worried about him without offensive players on offense. He isn't a legit offensive threat. He's the guy I want if we get Trae with the #3 pick although ideally, I prefer Bamba if Bagley is gone

 

 

[NBASupes]

This is a good video highlighting some of JJJ best traits defensively. His versatility, his rim protection and his great use of length defending the perimeter. 

 

On the other end of Bagley

 

 

For Bagley's offensive skills, touch, and his great ability creating for himself using his excellent feel for the game on offense. 

[NBASupes]

@Spud2nique

Look at this article: https://www.thestepien.com/2018/01/04/coles-draft-reflections/

It's the best one thestepien wrote, it's their explanation that is basically yeah, they screwed up their board last year and why we did. It's reasonable. Then you get to the end, see their board this year and look at them like, you idiots, you are making the same mistakes you made last year, AGAIN! 

 

"

Of all the areas of regret in the 2017 draft, my greatest is unequivocally Donovan Mitchell. That regret isn’t based on the inability to predict this iteration of Mitchell, but rather, the inability to capture within his range of outcomes this result and the inconsistent application of his projection into NBA space.

Mitchell personifies several components of what makes the draft almost impossible to ever nail down completely: mostly the inability to predict rate of development. Mitchell is not the same archetype of player now that he was at Louisville. In college, he profiled more as a straight secondary ball-handler, lacking plus passing vision on the move especially on drive-and-kicks, a dynamic handle, explosion off one foot as a finisher and high-level, efficient shot-making that you desire from modern lead guards or primary scorers. His shot mechanics were an obvious plus, but given his modest usage and statistical profile in conjunction with his eye-test weaknesses as a primary, projecting initiator status was murky.

Fast forward to modern day version of Mitchell who is creating off the dribble at will, finishing with craft at the rim and throwing precision skip pass lasers out of pick-and-roll, and his improvement is incredible. Mitchell is improving at a ridiculous rate in these capacities, a testament to his green flag work ethic, and that again channels the most difficult element of this overall process in trying to predict player development. But that’s not the point I’m trying to make.

I woefully undershot Mitchell’s ceiling outcome, seeing him as an iteration of Avery Bradley on a good team (I thought there was more playmaking there but that was his optimal role). He’s already surpassed that projection skill wise, and despite the unlikelihood of him being this good this fast, it wasn’t entirely unforeseeable.

Mitchell did show plus burst, pick-and-roll ball-handling capability, capable vision and had the eye-test pull-up jumper to command the threat of his shot in college. His athleticism is so much more dynamic in NBA space, and that’s ultimately takeaway #1 here: players with legitimate skill baselines and high-level athleticism are going to thrive more on-ball in NBA space, even if there are deficiencies (finishing, ball-handling etc.).

This is not groundbreaking information, but what makes this all even worse is that I accounted for this when projecting Malik Monk, who I thought given the dynamic threat of his pull-up, capable ball-handling and flashes of vision in pick-and-roll in conjunction with his ability to create separation with his speed/first step, had more creation equity than pigeonholing him into a sixth man Lou Williams role that popular narrative suggested. Not affording Mitchell this same kind of more creative ceiling equity, with the rationale being he lacked the same level of dynamism as a potential elite shooter to open up the rest of his game, was inconsistent application. Again, it’s easy in retrospect to see a lot of this, but the signs of Mitchell having this level of ceiling were present.

If you redrafted last year’s draft based on the sample we have thus far and project that forward, Mitchell is a surefire top five pick, and depending on how Markelle looks upon return, you can easily argue for Mitchell being the top prospect from this class. It’s not really the way this works to say if you didn’t have Mitchell as a top five guy entering the draft you missed on him, but at the same time I kind of feel that way. I thought I was one of the most consistently high guys on Mitchell all last year seeing him as one of the eleven can’t miss prospects in the class and having him in the 4-9 range after the draft (8-11 pre-draft), and I sure as hell feel like I missed on him.

Yes, I don’t even think Utah knew what they were getting in Mitchell, let alone other teams at the top of the draft (buttressed by him going 13^th). But the takeaway is that there were signs that Mitchell could be this caliber of player, and tenants we can learn from. Mainly that players with foundational skill level and high level athleticism will fair better in NBA space, and when those kinds of players combine high “want to” and green flag character, the ceiling outcome is likely higher than most project based on already established skill in college.

Kuzma and Mitchell were the two “eye-test risers” of this class that showed more ability on the floor than their stats suggested and paired that talent with legitimate positive character traits. Both are probably more the exception than the rule historically, but there are still takeaways to be gleaned here rather than just chalking up the results as random. If anything both serve as just more motivation to provide better analysis in the future."

[NBASupes]

9 hours ago, AHF said:

That is overstating it for his freshman year but for projection purposes this is where you wonder how he will compare at age 21 versus today.  It's an unknown for me but he has plenty of room to put on some weight and muscle and improve in that regard.

I don't think it's a weight issue. A lot of his issues aren't really weight issues. It's usually core, coordination, and body balance. That's extremely hard to change. That's like making Calderon fast or lateral quick. Some of these things are things you have since birth. As an uncoordinated hooper, I had that issue as well. I sadly, even as I gained weight and got stronger, I still looked uncoordinated. I trained like crazy and it didn't change. 

 

 

 

[kerrypack]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I like Robert Williams a lot. A LOT. Not for the Hawks of course but just in general

 

robert williams destroyed unc.

[KB21]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Honestly, I've said this better. It's not a honest discussion as Bagley is just a superior prospect. For JJJ, it's more fair for it to be him v. Bamba. 

It's more fair. Both are around the same level. Bamba with more talent, tools and size while JJJ has more advanced skills, better defensive versatility and better body. There is really an argument with these two. I seems like KB avoids it because the issue is, he can't overly use the fit thing v. Bamba and the biggest issue is Bamba could potentially be better in the metrics and that bothers KB more than anything. It makes him feel good that even if he's dead wrong on Bagley, he can push that JJJ is next in line. I want to change the topic. I want Bamba v. JJJ. I like Bamba much more and feel had has the potential to be a superior player. I don't want this JJJ v. Bagley narrative anymore because it's not comp to me. Bagley is superior, end of story. But if the Kings draft him. KB Jackson Jr will prop up JJJ. I can't have that. From now on, I am no longer addressing Bagley/JJJ. Just Bagley alone or if someone other than KB asks. My focus is on Bamba v. JJJ. 

 

This is the last time I am addressing KB ever on the Bagley/JJJ topic. The end. 

I win.

I will also win the Bamba vs JJJ argument.  JJJ can shoot.  Bamba can't.  There.  I win again.

[kg01]

8 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

@kg01 r u watching this lol

Nah mayne, stand back here with the rest of us, spud.  Let them foos back into a ban by themselves, bro.

Shiiii, they halfway there already.  They got AH to sober up and post a really stern warning (of sorts).  And you know AH don't sober up for much.

Aye, whatchu think of my Bagley=Beasley comp?

#KingOEmptyStats

[NBASupes]

12 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I win.

I will also win the Bamba vs JJJ argument.  JJJ can shoot.  Bamba can't.  There.  I win again.

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/01/04/coles-draft-reflections/

 

[thecampster]

So much talk considering we probably won't end up with either player.