NBASupes Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Ayton- Strengths: Strength Coordination Body Control Size/Length/Hands Touch Projectability Speed for size Rim running Confidence Improvement Areas: Movement on offense and defense Using his athletic ability on defense Aggressiveness when rebounding Awareness in general Aggressiveness in positioning for post feed Vision Communication Impact? Does he want to win. Scheme versatile Doncic: Strengths: Strength Coordination Body Control Court Vision Skill Crafty Movement Shot-making ability Ball handling Passing when keeping it simple Clutch Confidence Improvement Areas: Very poor Lateral quickness Closeout Speed (Equivalent to Kyle Korver) Speed Doesn't deal with full court pressure well Flashy passer but causing turnover No defensive position (not just positionless) Inconsistent shooter Projectability isn't high at all. Bagley Strengths: Elite RARE Athlete (First Step, Quickness, Agility, Speed, Lateral Quickness, Acceleration, Explosiveness, jumping) Coordination Body Control Finishing in the paint Aggressiveness Movement Natural Scorer Ball handling for position Stamina Feel for the game on offense Motor Confidence Toughness Hands Improvement Areas: Strength Defensive Awareness Situational Awareness on offense Off ball defense Paint Protection Finishing with right hand Not as comfortable attacking with right hand Lacking advanced skills for a scorer. Shot blocking aggressiveness in college Communication on defense Body? Wingspan? Overconfidence? Very coachable but does he receive information and process it quickly? We seen him handle a mass amount of responsibility but he wasn't effective at it on defense? Sign of more to come or can he improve it? Bamba Strengths: Elite RARE Length with Athleticism Agility 2nd step Finishing in the paint Paint Protection - His best trait Shot blocking Handles a great deal of responsibility without fouling and showed improvement. Intelligence and quick mental processing Open court speed is exceptional Confidence Willingness to bang regardless of size of the attacker Toughness Plays with his length and athletic ability Explosive in space Does never seen before things Standing reach and geometry radius covers a lot of ground on offense and defense, when he polished, he will be a nightmare. Shooting touch and exit look good Struggled more than most 1st rounders in the 1st half of the season but was superior in conference play. Pigeonholing him will be a mistake. Let him loose. Adjusting Lack of flaws offensively give you hope that he can become a 20 PPG scorer one day. Maybe sooner than later. Everyone has fought for him who vetted him. Well liked. Mature Improvement Areas: Stamina Feel for the game on offense and defense Inconsistent Motor First step but it's never really good for guys his height and frame Inconsistent hands Offensive and defensive polish Frame? Too thin lower body. Limits his low post defensive ceiling Shooting speed is slow and his shooting footwork is poor, seems to have cleaned it up recently Passing dribbling into traffic finishing in traffic Basketball focus before the NCAA's was not there. He was more of a studious individual. Is this person he has shown us during this process the real him? Too kind? doesn't play like it in my eyes Split personality like CP3? JJJ Strengths: Body Defensive awareness Jump/run athlete Great defending with length Uses tools well on defense Gives great effort on defense and communicates consistently Quick reaction skills Rare passion that he brings to the defensive end of the court Shows three point consistency good ball handling ability when given space Shot blocking especially weakside Projectibility Team player Coachable Improvement Areas: Coordination Body Control Core Strength Feel for the game on offense Screen setting Ability to attack in traffic Ability to finish through contact Passing NBA Readiness? Low post defending Foul prone especially when defending in space Doesn't rely on instincts to defend the post as much as he does on assignment Shooting Form (Translate?) Confidence? Toughness? Trae Young Strengths: Scoring Passing Vision Work Ethic Will to win Burst off the screen Shooting from range Shooting when open Competitiveness Did I say scoring? Ability to run the PnR/PnP Deep range passing, will expose lazy defense (talking to you, Mo Bamba) "Ryan Cameron voice" Coachable Improvement Areas: Passion about defense Lateral Quickness isn't terrible but doesn't really use it Wingspan Body? Ability to run a complex offense NBA Readiness Defensive awareness Offense is his best defense Can be selfish at times, not a player stars like playing with. Might need to put him around movement players and paint protectors. Not just rim protectors but paint protector. You need to be able to cut off the lane with him like Deke with Iverson. Finishing through contact Defensive energy Advanced PG skills Ability to run an offense that doesn't revolve around him Decision making when teams cut off his options. Next tomorrow will be Porter Jr, Carter Jr, the Bridges, and Sexton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted June 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 @benhillboy @gurpilo @AHF @lethalweapon3 @JayBirdHawk @Sothron @davis171 @KB21 @Spud2nique @thecampster @coachx @deester11 @Buzzard @capstone21 What's your personal strengths and improvement areas list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benhillboy Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 I can’t glean anything from college play. I’ll join in on the arguments soon as SL starts. My 3 most coveted attributes are high intelligence (or crazy “feel” like Tatum), good jumpshot form to work with, and the ability to defend 2 positions. Through my study these types positively effect scoring margins the most. Sign me up for whoever that is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted June 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 9 minutes ago, benhillboy said: I can’t glean anything from college play. I’ll join in on the arguments soon as SL starts. My 3 most coveted attributes are high intelligence (or crazy “feel” like Tatum), good jumpshot form to work with, and the ability to defend 2 positions. Through my study these types positively effect scoring margins the most. Sign me up for whoever that is. Understood, the hardest thing to take from college Basketball is coordination, athleticism, and mentality. It's so hard as they are so young and their personality types, where they land, and who's around them plays a critical role in their long term outlook. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benhillboy Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 47 minutes ago, NBASupes said: Understood, the hardest thing to take from college Basketball is coordination, athleticism, and mentality. It's so hard as they are so young and their personality types, where they land, and who's around them plays a critical role in their long term outlook. Yup, see Donovan Mitchell. If anyone here had him lighting sh@t up like Wade with a 3 in his first season I’ll take their word in this year’s draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benhillboy Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 I’d be interested in which Big makes the most defensive plays per foul and which one shoots FTs best? One of the 92.9 guys said Bagley could be Embiid. I was like “shhhhiiiiiii....” Possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan2331 Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Supes, I've got you on some lower rated prospects in a little bit. I'll probably do Melvin Frazier and Isaac Bonga first since those are my favorite players at #30 and #34. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deester11 Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Supes, I like this thought...I'm gonna post mine after some form of non-intoxicated thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecampster Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 2 hours ago, NBASupes said: @benhillboy @gurpilo @AHF @lethalweapon3 @JayBirdHawk @Sothron @davis171 @KB21 @Spud2nique @thecampster @coachx @deester11 @Buzzard @capstone21 What's your personal strengths and improvement areas list? Very simple. Any pick I take makes others around them better. Either they play such elite defense that it covers other's deficiencies or their offense creates not only offense for them but offense for others. This is one of the reasons I was such a huge Josh Smith fan back in the day. His rebounding, shot blocking and passing ability changed the game for all of his teammates. Horford has a similar effect on the game with his ability to play both internal and perimeter defense. Joe Johnson's isolation ability forced double teams and created offensive opportunities for others. I honestly ask all those promoting other players to see the team aspect of their proposed player's games. Players who must dominate the ball to be effective inhibit offense (as opposed to players who pass openly and freely). Players who are limited offensively inhibit the team offense. You have to be honest about your chosen players team impact, not his individual ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan2331 Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Isaac Bonga: Strengths: > 6'9" PG with a 7 foot wingspan. He's not Giannis-like really, his athleticism is kind similar to Ben Simmons if Simmons never saw a weight room. Nice burst, not a vertical leaper. > Pretty good court vision nothing crazy but he can find passers around the arc > He's around a 90% free throw shooter, so that's something that hopefully translates. The three point shooting isn't where it needs to be but there's some promise > He has legitimate PnR skills, I don't think he hits the roll man as much as you'd like to see, but he has that skill in some capacity Weaknesses: > Razor thin. He's gonna have a tough time fighting through screens. >His defense needs work if he's going to carve out a defensive role. He's got tools, but he's not locking anyone up right now > Lack of vertical will hurt him going to the rim, he's got to get craftier to be able to finish over centers in the NBA. Not a big deal, but worth pointing out >His shooting off the dribble is pretty poor, I'm not a shot doctor so I don't assess mechanics, but the free throw percentage gives him hope Summary > Really deserves the chance to be a point guard, he's not advanced in his handles but he has good court vision and some real defensive upside. > I see him as a counter to the Simmons/Giannis/Ball/Doncic/Harden's of the league who have size advantages over smaller point guards. Basically could function in a Shaun Livingston type of role. > He's also 18 so perhaps being in the NBA will raise his game past what we've seen. He's like a super-sized Schröder kind of and I think they could be good for each other. I think he should be our pick at #34, but I'd honestly be fine taking him as high as #19 if we know other teams are high on him. #34 makes him stashable though if he's not ready for the NBA. I really want him on the Hawks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFuzz Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 I like Lonnie Walker a lot. That's all I have to say. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan2331 Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 I like Lonnie Walker a lot. That's all I have to say. He's got game. He can be a star if he improves his outside shooting and improve his decision making. He's got everything else you need from a SG. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted June 17, 2018 Premium Member Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 5 hours ago, NBASupes said: @benhillboy @gurpilo @AHF @lethalweapon3 @JayBirdHawk @Sothron @davis171 @KB21 @Spud2nique @thecampster @coachx @deester11 @Buzzard @capstone21 What's your personal strengths and improvement areas list? I don't watch enough college ball for this. I just want 'THE' guy that will move us in the right direction. All these players have strengths and definitely weakness they need to work on. There are no LBJs in this draft - what we need us for who ever we pick to exceed expections and make those around him better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurpilo Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 hace 7 horas, NBASupes dijo: @benhillboy @gurpilo @AHF @lethalweapon3 @JayBirdHawk @Sothron @davis171 @KB21 @Spud2nique @thecampster @coachx @deester11 @Buzzard @capstone21 What's your personal strengths and improvement areas list? Very difficult to make such an expert judgement. However sometimes people mix on strengths realities and potential and that lead you to wrong statements. For example Marvin Bagley or Doncic offensive game is a reality today and can translate now. They will score at NBA. Strength JJJ is potentially a good defensive player but still is not a defensive presence. Has tools and could develop but is still not there. Potential Strength. People talk about what a player can become and value as much as what a player is today, this make no sense and that is how you fail on draft. Hawks need a star, a go to player, that is Doncic or Bagley., 75% you get a good player there. Chances at JJJ, Bamba or Porter are much much lower. They have tools, of course they have but they are still not there. Anyway I would take Bamba and a healthy Porter over JJJ any day. JJJ is a role player at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted June 17, 2018 Moderators Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, gurpilo said: People talk about what a player can become and value as much as what a player is today, this make no sense and that is how you fail on draft. JJJ is a role player at best. You have to balance between what someone is today and what they can be. Neither what they are today nor what they can become are good or bad inherently — just need to be balanced. Some of the biggest wins in draft history have been guys who weren’t close to stars when drafted but had the tools to become one. Dirk, Kawhi, Giannis, etc. all were total non impact players when drafted but what they could become was so good that they ended up under drafted. Conversely, a guy like MCW or Laettner is very solid coming out of the gate but never gets much better because they didn’t have a lot of growth in front of them. You have to evaluate both what someone is today and what they can be. For JJJ, the idea that what he can be is a role player in his best case scenario is crazy to me. His best case development is much, much more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted June 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 3 hours ago, AHF said: You have to balance between what someone is today and what they can be. Neither what they are today nor what they can become are good or bad inherently — just need to be balanced. Some of the biggest wins in draft history have been guys who weren’t close to stars when drafted but had the tools to become one. Dirk, Kawhi, Giannis, etc. all were total non impact players when drafted but what they could become was so good that they ended up under drafted. Conversely, a guy like MCW or Laettner is very solid coming out of the gate but never gets much better because they didn’t have a lot of growth in front of them. You have to evaluate both what someone is today and what they can be. For JJJ, the idea that what he can be is a role player in his best case scenario is crazy to me. His best case development is much, much more than that. It all depends. If you feel strongly that he can overcome his flaws, maybe you consider taking him. That goes for all of these prospects. For Bamba, if you feel like he develop into a shooter, that he's lack of low body bulk and frame will hinder him, or that you feel like his motor will be consistent at the next level, you take him as he can be a star otherwise. For JJJ, if you feel he can overcome his coordination, body control and core strength issues, you consider taking him as maybe the sky could be the limit. For Bagley, if you feel you can improve his defensive awareness, develop his shooting and polish his skills, maybe you have an once in a generation player. For Ayton, if you feel you can improve his defensive motor, his off ball ability, and develop him to use his athletic ability on defense, maybe he can be that Next Shaq O'Neal. For Doncic, if you feel you can overcome his poor lateral quickness, his poor closeout out length, and his lack of defensive position, maybe he can be that PG for the future for you. For Young, if you feel he can develop his defensive nature to fight at the very least, can become a more consistent shooter who makes better decisions and develop his off the ball game, maybe he can be something we never seen before at PG. It's all about what you think they can and can't overcome. That's really how you should judge this draft class. All of these guys like every class got flaws. I hear we have no AD in this class but AD had similar questions for him. He has weight issues, offensive polish issues, and ability to shoot with range wasn't in his game at that time. All of these guys are well, prospects and 19-20 year olds are usually unpolished and they have a lot to learn about the professional game on every level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted June 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 For Bamba's section: That goes for all of these prospects. For Bamba, if you feel like he develop into a shooter, that his lack of lower body bulk and frame won't hinder him as much due to his athletic profile, or that you feel like his motor will be more consistent at the next level, you take him as he can be a star otherwise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 41 minutes ago, NBASupes said: For Bamba's section: That goes for all of these prospects. For Bamba, if you feel like he develop into a shooter, that his lack of lower body bulk and frame won't hinder him as much due to his athletic profile, or that you feel like his motor will be more consistent at the next level, you take him as he can be a star otherwise... Bagley broh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted June 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, Spud2nique said: Bagley broh! Every Basketball player to have ever played the game has flaws. That includes MJ, LeBron, Bird, Magic, Wilt, Hakeem, Marvin Williams, O.J. Mayo, Mike Muscala, Chris Crawford, Cal Browdler, Steve Smith and Dominique Wilkins. But what can they overcome and what can't they overcome is the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 31 minutes ago, NBASupes said: Every Basketball player to have ever played the game has flaws. That includes MJ, LeBron, Bird, Magic, Wilt, Hakeem, Marvin Williams, O.J. Mayo, Mike Muscala, Chris Crawford, Cal Browdler, Steve Smith and Dominique Wilkins. But what can they overcome and what can't they overcome is the question. And with Bagley, he was literally born to be a star...I truly believe this. I usually tell my gf who has a “hall of fame” face and we usually track my predictions. I remember saying Chris Paul had one and a few other guys back in the day like Alonzo Mourning and others. Bagley has that face. He is a can’t miss prospect in my mind. I’m just hoping the Kings don’t steal him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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