WELCOME HOME TRAE!!!

[terrell]

30 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I think I've finally recovered after my initial dissapointment last night. In the light of a new day I guess it's not all a dumpster fire. Travis better be right. (I still question his negotiation skills).

When reports surfaced that the initial trade might be #3 and Bazemore for #5 and Wes Matthews to get out of Baze's contract next year (Dallas backed out from that one thank God), I was livid, I couldn't see straight......I just couldn't see beyond that, then I heard it was a 1st instead but top 5 protected, still disappointment there, the protection should have been top 2. 

Compounded by the reported #19 and Baze  for #23 rumor - I did not enjoy the draft.

These were also my issue: 

-  The guy touted as 'the next so and so' never turns out to be that guy. 
It's always some other random guy setting a standard to have everybody saying 'who's the next'.
- it just seems like Schlenk had tunnel vision in trying to recreate the Warriors that has me concerned. 

 

Anyway...Welcome to Atlanta Trae.

He wanted Trae all along. He got what he could from Dallas, and here we are. Evidently teams werent willing to give up the farm for Doncic...

[AHF]

For Trae fans, has there ever been a player in college basketball history who put up 38% of his team's turnovers?  I'm not even sure what to draw from this yet but was just wondering if there was any comparable in history.

 

I checked a few obvious candidates like Allen Iverson and  and couldn't find any.  I was looking more at that OU team and I've just never seen a team in college whose next highest people in APG and TOPG weren't >1.5.  OU had zero players average >1.5APG or >1.5TOPG.  (AI had 4 people on his last team who did one or both, for example).  Made me think about sucky teammates and their propensity to turnover the ball and then wondering what his % of the team's total turnovers looked like.  (Curry was just under 28%).  

[terrell]

I dont see it as bad negotiation skills. I see it as he took the best offer..

1 minute ago, AHF said:

For Trae fans, has there ever been a player in college basketball history who put up 38% of his team's turnovers?  I'm not even sure what to draw from this yet but was just wondering if there was any comparable in history.

 

I checked a few obvious candidates like Allen Iverson and  and couldn't find any.  I was looking more at that OU team and I've just never seen a team in college whose next highest people in APG and TOPG weren't >1.5.  OU had zero players average >1.5APG or >1.5TOPG.  (AI had 4 people on his last team who did one or both, for example).  Made me think about sucky teammates and their propensity to turnover the ball and then wondering what his % of the team's total turnovers looked like.  (Curry was just under 28%).  

His head coach knew he had to put up HUGE numbers in every game for them to have a chance..Bagley, for instance, had 4 teammates get drafted. How many did Trae have?

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, terrell said:

I dont see it as bad negotiation skills. I see it as he took the best offer..

His head coach knew he had to put up HUGE numbers in every game for them to have a chance..Bagley, for instance, had 4 teammates get drafted. How many did Trae have?

I'm asking if there has been anyone in history with that number.  There have been a lot of guys who were stars on bad teams.  No one on Duke is even in this conversation.

[terrell]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'm asking if there has been anyone in history with that number.  There have been a lot of guys who were stars on bad teams.  No one on Duke is even in this conversation.

Doubt it..

[benhillboy]

1 hour ago, GameTime said:

I think people undervalue Trae Young's ability to get to the FT line. He got to the line almost 9 times a game last year. In order to be elite offensively you have to get to the line at an above average clip. He does that with his craftiness.

Damn, didn’t know that.  Nice.  Another illustration of his IQ and situational play.

Unfortunate for him though the NBA is probably revising that horrible loophole allowing three point shooters to draw fouls by launching into defenders after a pump fake.  He could’ve pimped that.

[AHF]

Here is your all-time top 10 in turnovers and the % of their team's turnovers:

#1 Trae Young - 167 turnovers - 39.0%

#2 Kevin Galloway - 160 turnovers - 30.3%

#3 John Wall - 149 turnovers - 27.6%

#3 Grievous Vazquez - 149 turnovers - 26%

#5 Quincy McKnight - 148 turnovers - 28.6%

#6 Tony Lee - 147 turnovers - 25.8%

#7 Michael Weathers - 146 turnovers - 31.2%

#7 Al Fisher - 146 turnovers - 28.2%

#9 Marcus Keene - 145 turnovers - 40.1%

#10 Deon Jones - 144 turnovers - 24.8%

Other notables:

Kris Dunn - 138 turnovers - 33.9%

Michael Carter-Wiliams - 138 turnovers - 27.9%

Evan Turner - 136 turnovers - 32.9%

Tyreke Evans - 133 turnovers - 28.7%

Jimmer Freddette - 131 turnovers - 32.4%

Johnny Flynn - 129 turnovers - 22.1%

Elfrid Payton - 127 turnovers - 27.7%

Steph Curry - 126 turnovers - 28.7%

[AHF]

This speaks more to me of the ball domination and less of an actual concern with him being unable to handle the ball.  That ball domination was historic.

[drzachary]

Yeah, doesn't he own the usage rate record by a huge margin?

[benhillboy]

22 minutes ago, AHF said:

For Trae fans, has there ever been a player in college basketball history who put up 38% of his team's turnovers?  I'm not even sure what to draw from this yet but was just wondering if there was any comparable in history.

 

I checked a few obvious candidates like Allen Iverson and  and couldn't find any.  I was looking more at that OU team and I've just never seen a team in college whose next highest people in APG and TOPG weren't >1.5.  OU had zero players average >1.5APG or >1.5TOPG.  (AI had 4 people on his last team who did one or both, for example).  Made me think about sucky teammates and their propensity to turnover the ball and then wondering what his % of the team's total turnovers looked like.  (Curry was just under 28%).  

To be clear, were his 5.2 TOs per game an All Time high?

[AHF]

Just now, benhillboy said:

To be clear, were his 5.2 TOs per game an All Time high?

Yes.  As far as I can tell, he is all-time leader in both total turnovers and turnovers per game.  Only #2 all-time in % of team turnovers but it is the last number that concerns me the most as far as how his numbers will translate because that speaks to a severe distortion in norm

[benhillboy]

Just now, AHF said:

Yes.  He is all-time leader in both total turnovers and turnovers per game.  Only #2 all-time in % of team turnovers.

Preciate it.  I’d gues Jimmer and Wall come closest to his historic mark of leading the country in scoring and assists as a freshman.  But probably not very close.  At his size even his biggest critic has to tip their hat at that raw production.

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, drzachary said:

Yeah, doesn't he own the usage rate record by a huge margin?

Nope.  He has a 37.1% usage rate but that only places him 8th all-time (right above his fellow to% leader in Marcus Keene).  Jordan Washington is your leader and Jimmer Fredette is the only other guy most people have heard of on this list.

[benhillboy]

Kris Dunn posted a cool 2:1 assist to turnover last year.  Harden is gonna win MVP at that exact ratio.  I believe Young can clean it up.  Hell, he has to.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, benhillboy said:

Preciate it.  I’d gues Jimmer and Wall come closest to his historic mark of leading the country in scoring and assists as a freshman.  But probably not very close.  At his size even his biggest critic has to tip their hat at that raw production.

His college production and ball domination was historic.  His efficiency (TS%, A/TO) doesn't stand out in the same way.  I wanted to see how much actual responsibility (using their ability to generate assists and turnovers as a proxy) the other guys on the team had.  It has scared me for months and doing a deeper dive into the numbers doesn't seem to give me much relief.

[Bonkers]

Trae Young was a FRESHMAN!!!

 

He will get more experienced. People in here talking about him like he was a Senior lmao

[thecampster]

15 minutes ago, AHF said:

Here is your all-time top 10 in turnovers and the % of their team's turnovers:

#1 Trae Young - 167 turnovers - 39.0%

#2 Kevin Galloway - 160 turnovers - 30.3%

#3 John Wall - 149 turnovers - 27.6%

#3 Grievous Vazquez - 149 turnovers - 26%

#5 Quincy McKnight - 148 turnovers - 28.6%

#6 Tony Lee - 147 turnovers - 25.8%

#7 Michael Weathers - 146 turnovers - 31.2%

#7 Al Fisher - 146 turnovers - 28.2%

#9 Marcus Keene - 145 turnovers - 40.1%

#10 Deon Jones - 144 turnovers - 24.8%

Other notables:

Kris Dunn - 138 turnovers - 33.9%

Michael Carter-Wiliams - 138 turnovers - 27.9%

Evan Turner - 136 turnovers - 32.9%

Tyreke Evans - 133 turnovers - 28.7%

Jimmer Freddette - 131 turnovers - 32.4%

Johnny Flynn - 129 turnovers - 22.1%

Elfrid Payton - 127 turnovers - 27.7%

Steph Curry - 126 turnovers - 28.7%

@KB21.....You better man up buddy and get angry. I think @AHF is gunning for your negative Nancy title.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Bonkers said:

Trae Young was a FRESHMAN!!!

 

He will get more experienced. People in here talking about him like he was a Senior lmao

I have zero doubt he will get more experienced.  Sometimes time has a way of improving guys profiles and sometimes it does the opposite.  I am really hoping his November / December numbers were more real (47.5% fg%, 41% 3pt%) than the February/March numbers (39.1% fg%, 25.9% 3pt%).

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, Bonkers said:

Trae Young was a FRESHMAN!!!

 

He will get more experienced. People in here talking about him like he was a Senior lmao

You know how it is here...No one gets better after the age of 19

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, thecampster said:

@KB21.....You better man up buddy and get angry. I think @AHF is gunning for your negative Nancy title.

I've been accused of making of new never before articulated BS about concerns for how the OU offense revolved around Trae and that distorting his counting stats.  Trying to flesh that out.  

I absolutely don't think the kid is doomed and am rooting for him.  But I will be honest and say I think he has some real challenges in front of him translating his volume game into a team system in an NBA environment.  The upside if he can do that successfully is real.