Where's the defense??

[Diesel]

There's  a lot riding on Coach to coach a good defense.   Because we have inferior defensive players.

Collins, Dennis, Trae, Huerta... our players look like the worse defensive squad ever.

But I think about Collins.   Could we be gearing to move him or to use Him to move Dennis for Value??  Coach starts talking up Spellman who in my opinion is a better defender and post player than Collins. 

A Dedmon, Spellman, Prince frontcourt is one that could be more disruptive defensively than anything else we can project.  Honestly when we put Trae out there on the wing to guard shooters, you may as well say Undefended shots going up.  Spellman looks like he can cover ground in the midrange fairly well. 

 

[AHF]

No chance we move Collins to unload Dennis.  I am not putting it past Schlenk to add something to a deal that unloads Dennis (not sure that will happen depends on if he views him like Dwight) but Collins is way too much for that unless we are getting back a comparably good young player.

[nathan2331]

We'd be fools to move Collins right now. Collins could be a near 20-10 guy if he keeps progressing. I'm not moving him unless we get a player with that production right now and considering our rebuilding situation, we don't need established players winning 35 games for us.

[Buzzard]

Spellman and Prince can be good defenders. I think Huerter can improve and be just as good as Bazemore. Then there is Dedmon also. To me our D is not as bad as it looks; we are just as young and inexperienced as we look.

[AHF]

Prince should take a big step forward as a defender this year.  There is absolutely nothing about his profile that says there is anything blocking him from being a stout defender other than what is between his ears.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

No chance we move Collins to unload Dennis.  I am not putting it past Schlenk to add something to a deal that unloads Dennis (not sure that will happen depends on if he views him like Dwight) but Collins is way too much for that unless we are getting back a comparably good young player.

I think Schlenk will do it.  Especially if Coach is not excited about his defense.   Here's the thing... what was the last thing you heard from Schlenk or the new coach about Collins?  Collins had a very good rookie campaign... did we talk about him being the leader of the new Hawks?  Has Collins been celebrated any way by the franchise?

Look at Hawks.com

Omari Spellman is plastered all over the page. 

We have all sort of welcomes and following him as he comes to Atlanta.   He was the 30th pick of the draft.  Collins is no where to be found on the website. 

 

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

I think Schlenk will do it.  Especially if Coach is not excited about his defense.   Here's the thing... what was the last thing you heard from Schlenk or the new coach about Collins?  Collins had a very good rookie campaign... did we talk about him being the leader of the new Hawks?  Has Collins been celebrated any way by the franchise?

Look at Hawks.com

Omari Spellman is plastered all over the page. 

We have all sort of welcomes and following him as he comes to Atlanta.   He was the 30th pick of the draft.  Collins is no where to be found on the website. 

 

To early for Collins trade drama. Dedmon is a one year contract. I can see Prince, Collins, Omari as a starting front court if they pan out.

[Diesel]

5 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Spellman and Prince can be good defenders. I think Huerter can improve and be just as good as Bazemore. Then there is Dedmon also. To me our D is not as bad as it looks; we are just as young and inexperienced as we look.

No.. our defensive personell is as bad as it looks.

Trae = Extremely undersized with no defensive dog in him. 

Huerter = Not a strong defender.

Collins  = Poor one on one defender. 

Dennis = Sorry defender.

 

Some of these guys will be starters. 

We have Baze and Dedmon and sometimy Prince who can defend.

As much as people talk about the mold of GS.. don't be mistaken, they have top defenders.

Klay, Green, and KD are all very good defenders.   Not to mention Iguadala, who may have the best hands in basketball. 

 

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I think Schlenk will do it.  Especially if Coach is not excited about his defense.   Here's the thing... what was the last thing you heard from Schlenk or the new coach about Collins?  Collins had a very good rookie campaign... did we talk about him being the leader of the new Hawks?  Has Collins been celebrated any way by the franchise?

Look at Hawks.com

Omari Spellman is plastered all over the page. 

We have all sort of welcomes and following him as he comes to Atlanta.   He was the 30th pick of the draft.  Collins is no where to be found on the website. 

 

@Diesel

Now that we have the bet thread, care to wager avatar choosing on that?  If Dennis gets moved in a trade with Collins that doesn't return a comparable value young player for Collins, you pick my avatar for 2 months (two consecutive months and you pick when they start).  If Dennis gets moved without Collins (or with a comparable young player to Collins returning) or Dennis stays for the year, I'll get 1 month of picking  yours (I pick when that starts).

[Diesel]

Just now, Buzzard said:

To early for Collins trade drama. Dedmon is a one year contract. I can see Prince, Collins, Omari as a starting front court if they pan out.

I like Collins too.  But I think Schlenk cares more about the makeup of his team than he does about how good a player is.   

For instance... I wouldn't be surprised to see Schlenk pull a  Dennis/Collins for Bamba/Biyombo trade. 

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

@Diesel

Now that we have the bet thread, care to wager avatar choosing on that?  If Dennis gets moved in a trade with Collins that doesn't return a comparable value young player for Collins, you pick my avatar for 2 months (two consecutive months and you pick when they start).  If Dennis gets moved without Collins (or with a comparable young player to Collins returning) or Dennis stays for the year, I'll get 1 month of picking  yours (I pick when that starts).

I'm not saying that we won't get back a young player.   I believe that we may get back somebody like Bamba.

When asked about Bamba, Schlenk said we really liked Bamba but wanted a creator like Doncic or Trae...

Given a chance, I think he may trade for Bamba.  He also said that Huerter was somebody that they wanted to move up to take... So.. I don't think he cares much about skills more than he do about player blueprints.

 

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

No.. our defensive personell is as bad as it looks.

Trae = Extremely undersized with no defensive dog in him. 

Huerter = Not a strong defender.

Collins  = Poor one on one defender. 

Dennis = Sorry defender.

 

Some of these guys will be starters. 

We have Baze and Dedmon and sometimy Prince who can defend.

As much as people talk about the mold of GS.. don't be mistaken, they have top defenders.

Klay, Green, and KD are all very good defenders.   Not to mention Iguadala, who may have the best hands in basketball. 

 

Our weakest defender is Trae. Then Collins. Huerter is a lot more athletic than you give him credit for and Bazemore is solid on D as well, Spellman will be solid. I get that us old Squawkers want a front line composed of all defense type players; but that has never really ever happened.

Two or three solid defenders and lets score some points. Spellman, Huerter, and Prince are our young three capable of good defense. Dedmon and Bazemore are our vets capable of good defense. Maybe a lock down point guard similar to Livingston or Hill to be added in the future.

And before you go trading our young talent away; try and remember we could have as many as three 1st round picks again next year. In other words, we are not a finished product yet. Lets get closer to that and then figure out what holes need to be traded away or filled in.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, Buzzard said:

Our weakest defender is Trae. Then Collins. Huerter is a lot more athletic than you give him credit for and Bazemore is solid on D as well, Spellman will be solid. I get that us old Squawkers want a front line composed of all defense type players; but that has never really ever happened.

Two or three solid defenders and lets score some points. Spellman, Huerter, and Prince are our young three capable of good defense. Dedmon and Bazemore are our vets capable of good defense. Maybe a lock down point guard similar to Livingston or Hill to be added in the future.

And before you go trading our young talent away; try and remember we could have as many as three 1st round picks again next year. In other words, we are not a finished product yet. Lets get closer to that and then figure out what holes need to be traded away or filled in.

When we picked trae, we put the leage on notice that Dennis is no longer the guy.   We picked a guy who had been suggested to go 12th... behind 2 other PGs.. third.  That means that Trae is indeed the future.   Teams saw the move and they realize that regardless of how we try to spin it... Dennis is deadman walking in ATL.   So.. nobody at no time is going to give us a good deal for him.

For that reason, I think some young player with value.. either prince or Collins will be used to move Dennis.  At this point, I'm guessing it's Collins if we plan to get something of worth back.

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I'm not saying that we won't get back a young player.   I believe that we may get back somebody like Bamba.

When asked about Bamba, Schlenk said we really liked Bamba but wanted a creator like Doncic or Trae...

Given a chance, I think he may trade for Bamba.  He also said that Huerter was somebody that they wanted to move up to take... So.. I don't think he cares much about skills more than he do about player blueprints.

 

A trade for Bamba is something that might be done with or without Dennis.

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

When we picked trae, we put the leage on notice that Dennis is no longer the guy.   We picked a guy who had been suggested to go 12th... behind 2 other PGs.. third.  That means that Trae is indeed the future.   Teams saw the move and they realize that regardless of how we try to spin it... Dennis is deadman walking in ATL.   So.. nobody at no time is going to give us a good deal for him.

For that reason, I think some young player with value.. either prince or Collins will be used to move Dennis.  At this point, I'm guessing it's Collins if we plan to get something of worth back.

My proposal was on a trade based around this idea - that we would give up Collins (and I'm fine including Prince as well) to move Dennis.  A deal for a high lottery pick or young guy like Bamba for Collins or Prince isn't using them to move Dennis - it is moving similarly valued players for one another.

[mcleitsy]

Collins was the only untouchable asset at the trade deadline. If we're still talking about defensive woes next offseason he might be moved. He's just not getting the hype right now because he isn't a new pick. And a 30th overall pick isn't going to be ready to start day 1...or possibly even season 1. 

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

A trade for Bamba is something that might be done with or without Dennis.

I don't think Orlando does a deal like Collins for Bamba without exploiting us and making us take Bismack.   I don't think we do the deal without getting rid of Dennis.

I don't think Orlando took Bamba necessarily to keep.   They have Bismack and Vucevich.  What they need is what they always have needed.  A PF who can score.   That's Collins.   They could have drafted Miles Bridges, Kevin Knox, or even tried to trade for JJJ.   However, I think Collins is probably the 2nd best scoring PF in the last two drafts. 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Crazy talk. The Summer of Diesel in full effect.

I can see us taking on bad salary for a pick then using it to move Dennis...Collins to move Dennis? 1/3 Star post.

[Buzzard]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

My proposal was on a trade based around this idea - that we would give up Collins (and I'm fine including Prince as well) to move Dennis.  A deal for a high lottery pick or young guy like Bamba for Collins or Prince isn't using them to move Dennis - it is moving similarly valued players for one another.

Orlando is hurtin for certain. I would move Schröder to them for a top five or ten protected in 2020/21, and unprotected in 2021/22. Any 1st round pick at all for Dennis would have to be seen as a win.

[Buzzard]

3 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Orlando is hurtin for certain. I would move Schröder to them for a top five or ten protected in 2020/21 that goes unprotected in 2021/22. Any 1st round pick at all for Dennis would have to be seen as a win.

I had to clarify my statement.