Did the Hawks make a mistake.....

[nathan2331]

Mutombo 96...jj 2005...we haven’t signed many but those two better than Cousins.

Maybe given Cousins injury and temperament. But if we got him healthy and completely focused he'd be better than both. Cousins can't anchor a defense at a high level but he can do everything else, and we at least have Collins who is a good weak side shot blocker. I think I might make the team in 2K or something just to see what it could look like, now I'm getting mad.

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Mutombo 96...jj 2005...we haven’t signed many but those two better than Cousins.

 

Maybe given Cousins injury and temperament. But if we got him healthy and completely focused he'd be better than both. Cousins can't anchor a defense at a high level but he can do everything else, and we at least have Collins who is a good weak side shot blocker. I think I might make the team in 2K or something just to see what it could look like, now I'm getting mad.

? Mutombo was the man. Cousins is a headache and always has been.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

12 hours ago, AHF said:

If you get mediocre too quickly then you will lack the assets to get over the hump.  Your worst case scenario is this team gets good enough to be a 8-10 seed for a few years and never contends before quickly dropping back down.

You need to wait until you are ready to go for it before investing in someone like him.  And I say that as someone who thinks a lot of Boogie’s talent.

I disagree.  Because we've seen too many teams that have been bad for way longer than what they should've been, trying to build through the draft.  If you purposely pass up on high level talent that can make you better, in order to stick with the "plan", you get what you deserve.  The teams that stay bad, are also the teams that can't attract good free agents to add with their young stars.

Young teams need quality veterans on their squad to help them win games.   If our current young guys like Prince, Collins, Young, and even Schröder keep getting better, adding a very good player to the mix could accelerate the development curve of the youngsters.  

Even with the Joe Johnson Hawks, it took the acquisition of Mike Bibby to really give us that veteran leadership in order to get to playoff level.  Without him, they probably miss the playoffs again in 2008, and the ASG may have hit the reset button again in order to remake the team.

Orlando is a perfect example of what trying to stay young will get you.   After they lost Dwight and all of their veterans, they've completely lost their way.  They've let 2 of their lottery picks go, with one of them looking like he's going to be a top 10 player in the league soon.   Phoenix is the same way.

 

So yes, I think the Hawks made a mistake by not making a decent play for Boogie.  I guess after Dwight Howard, they didn't want to go down that route again.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, JCDBaptist said:

It was almost a perfect scenario to land a star on the cheap. 

I say let him take even more rine and bring him back after rhe all star break and win about 35 games and let the youngins grow and develop. Then hit the draft for a SF or SG and chase 1 more decent or big name FA to pair with Boogie to go with the rest of our young talent. 

Muscala and Dedmon comes off the books and trade Dennis to clear up cap space, maybe even Baze with assets attached. Not to mention Jamal Crawford comes off the books. That's enough cap space to really push for someone major, even if you're pushing towards LT territory. You go big when the opportunity presents itself.

But Boogie wasn't signing here with Dennis still on board. They have got into it damn near every time they play each other, well at least 3 times.

Lost opportunity. But that is water under the bridge now. What could've been a quick rebuild.

That would've been almost the ideal scenario.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

The mistake that was made was the decision to tank.  Everything after that is just a symptom of the original mistake.

It would be interesting to see where we would stack up in the East, had we not hit the reset button, and re-signed at least Millsap and kept Howard throughout his contract.

 

PG - Schröder ( 15.5 million )

G - Bazemore ( 18.1 million )

F - Prince ( 2.5 million )

PF - Millsap ( 29.2 million . . . . considering we signed him to a 3/90 or a 4/120 deal )

C - Howard ( 20 million )

 

We still would have the 3 1st round draft picks, but not the high lottery pick.  Guys like Huerter and Spellman would've still been available to obtain.  With another one of those picks, maybe we pick up a PG like Landry Shamet, a 6-5 PG who can shoot from NBA range and be a playmaker ( whom Philadelphia added to their roster, by the way )

 

PG - Shamet

G - Bembry / Dorsey

F - Huerter

PF - Spellman

C - Collins ( 6th man )

 

That lineup gave the Hawks 3 potential All-Star caliber players, plus a dearth of young talent to develop.   The big thing with this lineup would be Taurean Prince.  If he continued to improve his shooting, that would make that lineup even more lethal.

So you go for it for 1 year w/Howard on the team.   Going into 2019 - 20 season, Howard comes off the books, and Collins moves into the starting lineup as a 3rd year player, with Millsap being potentially overpaid, but the undisputed team leader.  This would also be the last year of Baze's contract, before he becomes an unrestricted free agent . . and Prince, before he becomes an unrestricted free agent.

 

If Trae is a bust, Schlenk won't be here long, and everybody outside of Collins probably will be too.  The GM needs to do everything in his power to turn Trae into the best player possible.   And that doesn't mean to keep playing the lottery.

[Spud2nique]

5 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It would be interesting to see where we would stack up in the East, had we not hit the reset button, and re-signed at least Millsap and kept Howard throughout his contract.

 

PG - Schröder ( 15.5 million )

G - Bazemore ( 18.1 million )

F - Prince ( 2.5 million )

PF - Millsap ( 29.2 million . . . . considering we signed him to a 3/90 or a 4/120 deal )

C - Howard ( 20 million )

 

We still would have the 3 1st round draft picks, but not the high lottery pick.  Guys like Huerter and Spellman would've still been available to obtain.  With another one of those picks, maybe we pick up a PG like Landry Shamet, a 6-5 PG who can shoot from NBA range and be a playmaker ( whom Philadelphia added to their roster, by the way )

 

PG - Shamet

G - Bembry / Dorsey

F - Huerter

PF - Spellman

C - Collins ( 6th man )

 

That lineup gave the Hawks 3 potential All-Star caliber players, plus a dearth of young talent to develop.   The big thing with this lineup would be Taurean Prince.  If he continued to improve his shooting, that would make that lineup even more lethal.

So you go for it for 1 year w/Howard on the team.   Going into 2019 - 20 season, Howard comes off the books, and Collins moves into the starting lineup as a 3rd year player, with Millsap being potentially overpaid, but the undisputed team leader.  This would also be the last year of Baze's contract, before he becomes an unrestricted free agent . . and Prince, before he becomes an unrestricted free agent.

 

If Trae is a bust, Schlenk won't be here long, and everybody outside of Collins probably will be too.  The GM needs to do everything in his power to turn Trae into the best player possible.   And that doesn't mean to keep playing the lottery.

Ur scenario doesn’t add up. No way Collins would let Dwight’s bitchass start in front of him. Dwight is a clown capital C!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

Ur scenario doesn’t add up. No way Collins would let Dwight’s bitchass start in front of him. Dwight is a clown capital C!

What do you mean . . . let?

Also, Bud would still be the coach here.   It would be Bud's decision to either start Collins over Howard.   

And let's not act like Collins, Plumlee or Dedmon did anything to stop Dwight 4 months ago, when he came in here and flat out destroyed us.

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It would be interesting to see where we would stack up in the East, had we not hit the reset button, and re-signed at least Millsap and kept Howard throughout his contract.

 

PG - Schröder ( 15.5 million )

G - Bazemore ( 18.1 million )

F - Prince ( 2.5 million )

PF - Millsap ( 29.2 million . . . . considering we signed him to a 3/90 or a 4/120 deal )

C - Howard ( 20 million )

 

We still would have the 3 1st round draft picks, but not the high lottery pick.  Guys like Huerter and Spellman would've still been available to obtain.  With another one of those picks, maybe we pick up a PG like Landry Shamet, a 6-5 PG who can shoot from NBA range and be a playmaker ( whom Philadelphia added to their roster, by the way )

 

PG - Shamet

G - Bembry / Dorsey

F - Huerter

PF - Spellman

C - Collins ( 6th man )

 

That lineup gave the Hawks 3 potential All-Star caliber players, plus a dearth of young talent to develop.   The big thing with this lineup would be Taurean Prince.  If he continued to improve his shooting, that would make that lineup even more lethal.

So you go for it for 1 year w/Howard on the team.   Going into 2019 - 20 season, Howard comes off the books, and Collins moves into the starting lineup as a 3rd year player, with Millsap being potentially overpaid, but the undisputed team leader.  This would also be the last year of Baze's contract, before he becomes an unrestricted free agent . . and Prince, before he becomes an unrestricted free agent.

 

If Trae is a bust, Schlenk won't be here long, and everybody outside of Collins probably will be too.  The GM needs to do everything in his power to turn Trae into the best player possible.   And that doesn't mean to keep playing the lottery.

More of the same. 

[turnermx]

More of the same. 

 

IOW treadmill . No hopes of getting a superstar to trade for or sign. [emoji17]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[JTB]

Actually reports say that the pelicans offered 40 mil over 2 years and cousins was insulted by the offer.

 

i knew he lied when he said teams didn’t have any significant offers

[Buzzard]

In 2019/20 we will have one max and some change available to spend depending on progress, In 2020/21 we could have two max contracts available.

Cousins turned down a two year 40 million dollar deal from the Pelicans shortly after he was injured. Turning down 20 a year indicates to me he was not willing to be had on the cheap. A max for him this year would be a huge risk; and that is why he did not get anything offered that was near the 20 a season the Pelicans had already offered him. In fact, I read he did not even get a phone call. This year was not the year. Next year could be.

[Buzzard]

7 minutes ago, JTB said:

Actually reports say that the pelicans offered 40 mil over 2 years and cousins was insulted by the offer.

 

i knew he lied when he said teams didn’t have any significant offers

That was shortly after he was injured. Not during free agency. He did not get any calls by all reports this free agent period.

[JayBirdHawk]

35 minutes ago, JTB said:

Actually reports say that the pelicans offered 40 mil over 2 years and cousins was insulted by the offer.

 

i knew he lied when he said teams didn’t have any significant offers

He was offered that before the season ended, he declined, NOP pulled the offer and didn't offer another.

Nothing was offered during FAcy.

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

What do you mean . . . let?

Also, Bud would still be the coach here.   It would be Bud's decision to either start Collins over Howard.   

And let's not act like Collins, Plumlee or Dedmon did anything to stop Dwight 4 months ago, when he came in here and flat out destroyed us.

 

 

Dwight is not better than Collins right now. Collins should and would start on any team in the nba over Dwight. Dwight is an endangered species in the nba. The scrubs didn’t even want him and this is a team that was in favor of taking of Javale McGee...so please..stop.

[capstone21]

8 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Boogie is a disease and I hope a contagious ? one at that.

Sums it up perfectly 

[Diesel]

12 hours ago, JCDBaptist said:

When I say cheap, I'm talking 25-30 mil a year. But Boogie probably don't take a discount to come rebuild. He is betting on himself to get back to form. That is why he took a 1 year, 5 mil deal. Wouldn't have happened for Atlanta.

Dream on Hawks fans!!

I wouldn't have low balled him.  If I could, I would have maxed him out for 3 yrs.   It's a move that would have built Loyalty and in the meanwhile he could have become the biggest star in Atlanta.   That's an Identity.   What would you pay for that?

[Buzzard]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I wouldn't have low balled him.  If I could, I would have maxed him out for 3 yrs.   It's a move that would have built Loyalty and in the meanwhile he could have become the biggest star in Atlanta.   That's an Identity.   What would you pay for that?

You are worried about Trae busting but you are willing to risk 30 million a year of our future on a 280 lb man coming off an Achilles injury. He is going to suffer moderate to high inflammation for the following 3 to 9 months after he gets on the court. If he has any set back at all, that could continue for the rest of his career,

The Pelicans probably like Boogie a lot and thought they were doing him right with that 40 million dollar offer. Basically it was one year to sit and recover, and a second year to try and play a full season.

Translation, 40 million for one season of games. He should have took that money and limped right back into rehab.

[Buzzard]

39 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I wouldn't have low balled him.  If I could, I would have maxed him out for 3 yrs.   It's a move that would have built Loyalty and in the meanwhile he could have become the biggest star in Atlanta.   That's an Identity.   What would you pay for that?

Read the below and then say Boogie is worth a max. Note Elton Brand same age as Boogie and what he said about having to jump with both legs and still never being as explosive as he was before the injury, Then note Wilkins.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/1/27/16940178/demarcus-cousins-achilles-injury-golden-state-warriors-this-is-the-worst

The recovery time is faster now; but Nique who is 80 or pounds lighter than Boogie and Brand is the best recovery story.

[nathan2331]

Read the below and then say Boogie is worth a max. Note Elton Brand same age as Boogie and what he said about having to jump with both legs and still never being as explosive as he was before the injury, Then note Wilkins.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/1/27/16940178/demarcus-cousins-achilles-injury-golden-state-warriors-this-is-the-worst

The recovery time is faster now; but Nique who is 80 or pounds lighter than Boogie and Brand is the best recovery story.

Boy, that article was depressing. From the sounds of it Nique's tear wasn't even as severe as other cases were. I still would've give Cousins a 3 year deal with a team option, only because it's unlikely we get a center 75% as good as him in at any point in this rebuild. We'll have a shot next year anyways, so at least we'll see his recovery in the least demanding situation possible.

[AHF]

Couple points:  

 

JJ as our biggest FA sign?  He was a trade not a true FA.  Mutombo is our biggest FA sign.

 

Orlando is the example of the team that avoids vets?  WTF narrative is that?  They went after Millsap among numerous other vet FAs. After failing to sign a high dollar vet FA, they traded Oladipo for Ibaka so they could “add veteran talent and win now.”  That was actually the textbook example of trying to move away from youth too early.  They are an example of incompetence — not the poster child for trying to avoid vets.

 

NO is the poster child for the team that thought they were ready to stop drafting and go with Vet’s after they drafted AD.  It has let to a continually depleted roster because free agency is an inefficient and risky market.

 

The people saying Boogie actually fits with tanking have a reasonable argument.  Any reasonable projection has to have Cousins missing most of the season and struggling some on his return.  That is the nature of the injury.  Really come down to how much risk you are willing to bite off in future years with his attitude (he is more strange than a cancer) and the risk of his recovery.  I can see a solid case for signing him to a 3 year deal with a team option in year 3 or something like that so that you basically give him this year off and then play a couple years with him after recovery.  You then have bird rights or can move on.