Tyler Dorsey

[thecampster]

Just now, marco102 said:

I love how you never try to see someone else's point, but that's cool too.  I did misinterpret your first post, but the rest of what I said about Dorsey is completely why half of everyone on here is not as excited about him as Trae or John Collins. I spelled that out for you, but you just can't say hey Marco I see your point.

Cool. I can see your point about his 1 game where he played well.  You should see my point about the other games.

2nd round pick, was a rookie last year...perhaps we should temper our expectations a bit.  If you get a rotational guy out of the 2nd round, its a win.

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I love it when people change the subject.  I was specifically referring to this game just like other posters where specifically referring to this game with Trae Young and not his other horrible games.

I said this was a good game for him.  I said I was happy for the night.

What else does a SL game mean other than a bit of entertainment for a night?  Just saying it doesn’t change anything as far as projecting him and projecting him in the NBA is the post you were originally talking about that I posted.

I never said he couldn’t have a good night against SL competition.  To the contrary, I’d expect him to absolutely have a couple big games having more NBA experience than almost everyone else on the floor and a quick trigger finger.  I just wouldn’t extrapolate from a big SL game to NBA legitimacy.

[marco102]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

2nd round pick, was a rookie last year...perhaps we should temper our expectations a bit.  If you get a rotational guy out of the 2nd round, its a win.

I completely agree.  I just don't understand why he thinks if we slightly critize his decision making we don't like the kid.  I like Dorsey.  For the fifth time in this post, I just don't like when he ball hogs.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

2nd round pick, was a rookie last year...perhaps we should temper our expectations a bit.  If you get a rotational guy out of the 2nd round, its a win.

Exactly.  If he turns into someone who can score efficiently and hit the boards he will have met my expectations since that is a playable skill set in the NBA.

Without the efficient scoring, he doesn’t do enough else to warrant a rotation spot so improvement in this area is key.  It is within his capability to do just that.

[sturt]

23 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

How are you comparing the 2 then?

I don't understand where the confusion lies.

Let me try it this way...

Of what I've seen thus far... both last year and now thus far in SL... I'm just making my admittedly amateur assessment that when we look back on Dorsey's career contributions to the ATL teams he played on, it's going to look a lot like the final tally on Moose's contributions.

Just my take. No need to be upset... or for that matter, excited.

[thecampster]

15 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I completely agree.  I just don't understand why he thinks if we slightly critize his decision making we don't like the kid.  I like Dorsey.  For the fifth time in this post, I just don't like when he ball hogs.

To be fair, Pierce knows he only has 5 possible roster guys on the floor in summer league and he probably told those guys to be heavily involved....shoot till their fingers burn and be leaders.  Last year, Dorsey was trigger shy in summer league if you recall. I'm thinking his attempt to score 20+ every night he's on the floor is partly a coaching decision so Pierce has a better handle on what he can do if called upon.

[thecampster]

16 minutes ago, AHF said:

Exactly.  If he turns into someone who can score efficiently and hit the boards he will have met my expectations since that is a playable skill set in the NBA.

Without the efficient scoring, he doesn’t do enough else to warrant a rotation spot so improvement in this area is key.  It is within his capability to do just that.

You talk a great deal about TS% but efficiency is much more complicated than that.  Turnovers factor in to that, his willingness as a teammate to extend plays (be the decoy, set a screen, bail out a PG who lost their dribble). His rebounding (as previously stated) has shown his willingness to do more than just chuck.  He isn't Jamal Crawford in that regard. He is a willing defender, rebounder and teammate. That should factor in as well.  

TS only counts your contributions on plays where "you" shoot. But I'm just as worried about how he makes other's lives easier or harder on the court.  Dorsey took 16 shots tonight but there were 57 other shots where he was a decoy, pick setter, ball handler or cheerleader. He also turned the ball over twice but the rest of the team turned it over 19 times. I'm just as concerned about what he was doing during the other 19 turnovers. 57 shots, 19 turnovers....did he have an impact during those plays as well.  See my rants about Landale.  2 of Trae's turnovers tonight are directly related to Landale having bricks for hands and cement shoes (the Young lead pass to the basket that Landale barely even moved on would have been a dunk for Collins).  I want to know his total impact...not just one stat.  I really love the impact that simple stats don't show.

Consider Mutombo.....how many shots did he alter just by being in the lane. How many times did a SG pull up and shoot a jumper rather than attack the basket? Those things never show up in box scores but coaches and knowledgeable fans see them.  Dorsey put a lot of work in to this part of his game during the year and in the off season. I would like to see the impact next year.

The one guy on our team right now this applies to is Bembry.  Bembry had been working on his shot and it is the one thing every fan harps on. But Bembry's court impact is so much more than his shot.  This guy causes havoc for opposing players. He is always disrupting the passing lanes, passing people open and drawing attention when he has the ball.  I hate it when fans focus on one aspect of a player's game and think that is what makes or breaks them.  I really like to focus on total impact.

[Jeffery123]

Oh btw, Dorsey #5 in rebounding in summer league averaging 11. Only guard in top five. 

[Gray Mule]

Some things doesn't change, whether it's summer league, high school or the NBA regular season.

How high is the goal, how big is the ball, where is the free throw line?  The same.  See what I mean.  Whenever a player hits his shot, wherever he is playing, it's the same.  The same ball, the same goal and the same distance.  Who is in your face at the time is different (but not your free throws) and can change everything.

Pressure on the player comes to all players.  High school in the state championship game, summer league game where it might mean where you play next season or the NBA finals.  Standing at the free throw line with the game on the line, the same pressure, regardless of where it is.  Same sized goal, same sized ball and the same distance. 

Sure, this was a summer league game.  Shots, rebounds and assists.  They all matter.  If they don't matter, try not getting them and see what happens.  Example.  Our big white dude. 

Wow.  What a day for Atlanta sports.  Dream win!  Braves win!  Baby Hawks win!!!

GO ATL !!!

[JayBirdHawk]

7 hours ago, thecampster said:

You talk a great deal about TS% but efficiency is much more complicated than that.  Turnovers factor in to that, his willingness as a teammate to extend plays (be the decoy, set a screen, bail out a PG who lost their dribble). His rebounding (as previously stated) has shown his willingness to do more than just chuck.  He isn't Jamal Crawford in that regard. He is a willing defender, rebounder and teammate. That should factor in as well.  

TS only counts your contributions on plays where "you" shoot. But I'm just as worried about how he makes other's lives easier or harder on the court.  Dorsey took 16 shots tonight but there were 57 other shots where he was a decoy, pick setter, ball handler or cheerleader. He also turned the ball over twice but the rest of the team turned it over 19 times. I'm just as concerned about what he was doing during the other 19 turnovers. 57 shots, 19 turnovers....did he have an impact during those plays as well.  See my rants about Landale.  2 of Trae's turnovers tonight are directly related to Landale having bricks for hands and cement shoes (the Young lead pass to the basket that Landale barely even moved on would have been a dunk for Collins).  I want to know his total impact...not just one stat.  I really love the impact that simple stats don't show.

Consider Mutombo.....how many shots did he alter just by being in the lane. How many times did a SG pull up and shoot a jumper rather than attack the basket? Those things never show up in box scores but coaches and knowledgeable fans see them.  Dorsey put a lot of work in to this part of his game during the year and in the off season. I would like to see the impact next year.

The one guy on our team right now this applies to is Bembry.  Bembry had been working on his shot and it is the one thing every fan harps on. But Bembry's court impact is so much more than his shot.  This guy causes havoc for opposing players. He is always disrupting the passing lanes, passing people open and drawing attention when he has the ball.  I hate it when fans focus on one aspect of a player's game and think that is what makes or breaks them.  I really like to focus on total impact.

I like this breakdown.

 

2 hours ago, Jeffery123 said:

Oh btw, Dorsey #5 in rebounding in summer league averaging 11. Only guard in top five. 

That's impressive.

[AHF]

8 hours ago, thecampster said:

You talk a great deal about TS% but efficiency is much more complicated than that.  Turnovers factor in to that, his willingness as a teammate to extend plays (be the decoy, set a screen, bail out a PG who lost their dribble). His rebounding (as previously stated) has shown his willingness to do more than just chuck.  He isn't Jamal Crawford in that regard. He is a willing defender, rebounder and teammate. That should factor in as well.  

TS only counts your contributions on plays where "you" shoot. But I'm just as worried about how he makes other's lives easier or harder on the court.  Dorsey took 16 shots tonight but there were 57 other shots where he was a decoy, pick setter, ball handler or cheerleader. He also turned the ball over twice but the rest of the team turned it over 19 times. I'm just as concerned about what he was doing during the other 19 turnovers. 57 shots, 19 turnovers....did he have an impact during those plays as well.  See my rants about Landale.  2 of Trae's turnovers tonight are directly related to Landale having bricks for hands and cement shoes (the Young lead pass to the basket that Landale barely even moved on would have been a dunk for Collins).  I want to know his total impact...not just one stat.  I really love the impact that simple stats don't show.

Consider Mutombo.....how many shots did he alter just by being in the lane. How many times did a SG pull up and shoot a jumper rather than attack the basket? Those things never show up in box scores but coaches and knowledgeable fans see them.  Dorsey put a lot of work in to this part of his game during the year and in the off season. I would like to see the impact next year.

The one guy on our team right now this applies to is Bembry.  Bembry had been working on his shot and it is the one thing every fan harps on. But Bembry's court impact is so much more than his shot.  This guy causes havoc for opposing players. He is always disrupting the passing lanes, passing people open and drawing attention when he has the ball.  I hate it when fans focus on one aspect of a player's game and think that is what makes or breaks them.  I really like to focus on total impact.

I don't disagree with what you have written but if you read my posts, I don't think Dorsey is value add on any of these other things today.  TS% is much more important for him because he isn't a super effective decoy, he isn't making others lives much easier as a screen and ball handler, he isn't impacting the defense, etc.

Right now I see his positive impact for the team showing up in the simple stats pretty clearly - rebounding and scoring.  If he matures as a player and becomes more well rounded then I'm totally on board looking at him more holistically but this has never really been his game.

[macdaddy]

I was high on Dorsey last year.   I think he's a Bud type player though.   I hope he does well.  I think his ability to finish at the basket could be good.   Watching him try to run point in SL though was painful.  He can't be relied on as a playmaker.   

[Buzzard]

I am fine with Dorsey as a role player coming off the bench but I am not feeling him as a PG. I like his energy a lot and think that is an important trait to have for a rebuilding team.

Side note: Bembry is a wild card for us. I have no idea where his game is at since he has not played in what seems like ages.

[thecampster]

5 hours ago, AHF said:

I don't disagree with what you have written but if you read my posts, I don't think Dorsey is value add on any of these other things today.  TS% is much more important for him because he isn't a super effective decoy, he isn't making others lives much easier as a screen and ball handler, he isn't impacting the defense, etc.

Right now I see his positive impact for the team showing up in the simple stats pretty clearly - rebounding and scoring.  If he matures as a player and becomes more well rounded then I'm totally on board looking at him more holistically but this has never really been his game.

Yah...my post is that I see improvements in summer league so I'd still like to reserve judgment on Dorsey.

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Yah...my post is that I see improvements in summer league so I'd still like to reserve judgment on Dorsey.

I'll judge him based on the upcoming NBA season.  I hope he demonstrates real improvements going forward - he is athletic and young enough to do exactly that.  TS% represents the lowest hanging fruit for me because he was a stud college shooter and his scoring efficiency last year was in line with guys like Justice Winslow, Raymond Felton and Isaiah Taylor.  Not the company he should be keeping.

[sillent]

On 7/12/2018 at 0:41 AM, Peoriabird said:

The team came back with Trae on the bench and Dorsey in the game. Trae only had 3 more assist than Dorsey.  Dorsey was +12 Trae -12 so I don't get it.

I would have gave you a couple of likes if I had them.

[thecampster]

On 7/12/2018 at 7:20 AM, Gray Mule said:

Some things doesn't change, whether it's summer league, high school or the NBA regular season.

How high is the goal, how big is the ball, where is the free throw line?  The same.  See what I mean.  Whenever a player hits his shot, wherever he is playing, it's the same.  The same ball, the same goal and the same distance.  Who is in your face at the time is different (but not your free throws) and can change everything.

Pressure on the player comes to all players.  High school in the state championship game, summer league game where it might mean where you play next season or the NBA finals.  Standing at the free throw line with the game on the line, the same pressure, regardless of where it is.  Same sized goal, same sized ball and the same distance. 

Sure, this was a summer league game.  Shots, rebounds and assists.  They all matter.  If they don't matter, try not getting them and see what happens.  Example.  Our big white dude. 

Wow.  What a day for Atlanta sports.  Dream win!  Braves win!  Baby Hawks win!!!

GO ATL !!!

For whatever reason, I missed this the first time I read it.....Yah...I giggled!

[deester11]

3 hours ago, sillent said:

I would have gave you a couple of likes if I had them.

I wonder what people actually watch.  If you call someone out you're "hating." Funny shyt. Honestly, I'm not feeling Dorsey and I say that as a supporter of his.  Head down, rarely passes...Meh.  He is not bad, but neither is he a given for the rotation.  I like him mixing it up for rebounding, but my Sg should never be a black hole with the ball.  

[NBASupes]

What I like about Bembry is he is so good at defending off the ball and playing off the ball in general on offense and defense. He will love playing on 2nd string with Trae. 

 

Trae

Dorsey or Hureter

Bembry

Spellman

Moose

 

This will be an extremely effective lineup. 

[DrReality]

Malcolm Delaney has received a lucrative offer from the Turkish club, one that might finally bring him back to Europe. ????