Rebuild patience.........

[Buzzard]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

The one constant to getting to an NBA championship is you first draft a hall of fame player.  

Some people say the Lakers are an exception because they didn’t draft Kobe, they traded for Kobe on draft day.  I think that is splitting hairs, but if you can accept that Kobe was drafted by Lakers practically every championship team has drafted a HOF player to build around.  

GS- Steph

Cleveland- Lebron, Kyrie

Celtics- Pierce

Lakers- Kobe

Spurs- Duncan, Robinson

Heat- Wade

Bulls- Jordan

Rockets- Olajuwon

The Billups era Pistons are the one exception to nearly every trend, but apart from that team the standard is to draft a HOF player and build from that talent.

You let the cat out of the bag. Good post and those arguing against having good draft picks can only argue that being a half ass playoff team is better than shooting for Championships.

[sillent]

On 7/12/2018 at 4:09 PM, Vol4ever said:

Just curious but how long are you willing to wait on the rebuild to make the playoffs?  

1-2 years

3-4 years

More than 5

The above

[Final_quest]

Actually the basic formula is draft a HOF player and then acquire 1 or 2 more however you can.  But it starts by drafting one first.

[sillent]

On 7/12/2018 at 4:29 PM, turnermx said:

A and B , 1-2, or 3-4 years but the rebuild will most likely succeed in 1-2 imho..

 

But then again, it doesn’t matter, because I will be a Hawks fan the rest of my life so I can wait however long

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

You must be 13. I too am very loyal but I can't wait till I'm dead for them to show greatness. I demand something from the 23 yrs I already put in. I should be getting a return in the 25th yr.

[sillent]

On 7/12/2018 at 5:24 PM, Gray Mule said:

Eternal optimist.  With King James gone west, why wait?  We have drafted three players, thought to be very capable scorers.  We, the Hawks, already had some pretty good offensive minded players.  Therefore, we of the mind that scoring just might be possible for this season's team.  They may even be able to hit free throws!

Lloyd Pierce is noted as a defensive minded head coach and have assistant coaches who are also of this same mind set.  I have to believe that our present Hawk team consists of players who have a high IQ and will be able to learn how to play a passable defense.

This Hawk team is, for the most part, very young.  They are capable, aye, even expected, to still be growing as young men.  While they are doing this, we expect them to be growing as NBA players.  Remember, draft pick #1 and draft pick #2 both went west.  Hawks are in the east.  See what happened?  Our #3, which became Trae and another first round pick, was the first pick coming east!

Our three teen aged picks will be full of energy and willing to learn.  Our players from last season aren't that bad, in spite of what we may read.  Regardless of which NBA team we look at, the health of their team must be considered.  If this year's Hawk team remains healthy, they will be capable of sneaking into this season's playoff.  Capable of winning it all?  Not at all.  We ain't that good.  Not yet.  But, 8th place?  Yes!

I expect the Hawks to be just in the playoff picture or just out.  Could go either way.  How many wins will the #8 playoff team have?  Hawks will be very, very close to that many wins, however many that is....

GO ATL HAWKS !!

 

Good Post!

[Buzzard]

2 hours ago, sturt said:

By his own analysis, assuming one can believe what he says publicly (which of course historically is a 50/50 bet), he saw the two as equivalent options.

The 1st was what made that decision easy.

Not all that brave, imo, but I do agree that media instant reaction is almost always to celebrate players not future draft picks in these things.

The gutsy call was going against the national media perception; and going with his own perception. The highest I saw Trae going all season pre combine was 6th to Orlando; and most had him going 7th, 8th. or 9th. Some but not many had Sexton going ahead of Trae.

I admit 5 vs 6 is not a big stretch.; but 3 vs 7, 8, or 9 is huge.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

The one constant to getting to an NBA championship is you first draft a hall of fame player.  

Some people say the Lakers are an exception because they didn’t draft Kobe, they traded for Kobe on draft day.  I think that is splitting hairs, but if you can accept that Kobe was drafted by Lakers practically every championship team has drafted a HOF player to build around.  

GS- Steph

Cleveland- Lebron, Kyrie

Celtics- Pierce

Lakers- Kobe

Spurs- Duncan, Robinson

Heat- Wade

Bulls- Jordan

Rockets- Olajuwon

The Billups era Pistons are the one exception to nearly every trend, but apart from that team the standard is to draft a HOF player and build from that talent.

See.  this is the simplistic view of what happens.   Hall of famers are drafted all the time.   Charles Barkley, Dominique, Reggie Miller, Karl Malone, Jon Stockton, Penny Hardaway, Chris Weber, Chris Mullen, Mitch Richmond, and Pat Ewing are Hall of Famers.   Melo is a Hall of Famer.   Chris Paul is a Hall of Famer.   Yet Stacey King has 3 rings. 

Here's the real deal...

You have to know something about team building to win championships.   Once you win championships, somebody will be named a Hall of famer on your team.. but first, you have to be able to build a team that is capable of competing. 

Wade without Shaq or Lebron never sniffs a Championship. 

Pierce without KG and Allen is a good player but goes ringless. 

And so fourth and so on. 

If you go into the draft hoping to find a hall of famer, you may get one.   Hell, didn't we have Dwight Howard?  He's a Hall of Famer.  However, even if you get a hall of famer, without a team built to win, it's meaningless. 

[Buzzard]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

If you go into the draft hoping to find a hall of famer, you may get one.   Hell, didn't we have Dwight Howard?  He's a Hall of Famer.  However, even if you get a hall of famer, without a team built to win, it's meaningless. 

This is true but I think the main point is your drafted HOF player is your 1st building block, Without Wade, Miami never gets Shaq or Bron.

[turnermx]

You must be 13. I too am very loyal but I can't wait till I'm dead for them to show greatness. I demand something from the 23 yrs I already put in. I should be getting a return in the 25th yr.

 

I’ve been a fan 33 years now, since 1985... I can wait.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Vol4ever]

Just now, turnermx said:

 

I’ve been a fan 33 years now, since 1985... I can wait.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yeah we've been around forever

[JayBirdHawk]

 

[hazer]

1 hour ago, turnermx said:

 

I’ve been a fan 33 years now, since 1985... I can wait.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

1 hour ago, Vol4ever said:

Yeah we've been around forever

Been a fan since ‘80, I ain’t going nowhere.

[KB21]

It still blows my mind that some of you think this team can actually compete as constructed.

No!  This team is not constructed to be able to compete.  The only player on this entire roster who may be a legitimate starting caliber player on a good NBA team THIS year is John Colllins.  Everyone else is a back up or they are not getting time on a good team.  

This is an extremely young team, and extremely young teams do not know how to compete and win at the NBA level, and management is making sure that there aren't many veterans on the team that know how to win.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating.  The Hawks are going to be WORSE this year than they were in 2017-2018.  This team is built to be a sub 20 win team THIS year, and they do not have the advantage of having a coach like Bud to milk 4-5 wins above expectations out of the team.

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

It still blows my mind that some of you think this team can actually compete as constructed.

No!  This team is not constructed to be able to compete.  The only player on this entire roster who may be a legitimate starting caliber player on a good NBA team THIS year is John Colllins.  Everyone else is a back up or they are not getting time on a good team.  

This is an extremely young team, and extremely young teams do not know how to compete and win at the NBA level, and management is making sure that there aren't many veterans on the team that know how to win.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating.  The Hawks are going to be WORSE this year than they were in 2017-2018.  This team is built to be a sub 20 win team THIS year, and they do not have the advantage of having a coach like Bud to milk 4-5 wins above expectations out of the team.

And if that is the case, I'm good!  All I ask is that these boys go out and compete every night.  The rest will take care of itself.

[Threezus]

4 hours ago, KB21 said:

It still blows my mind that some of you think this team can actually compete as constructed.

No!  This team is not constructed to be able to compete.  The only player on this entire roster who may be a legitimate starting caliber player on a good NBA team THIS year is John Colllins.  Everyone else is a back up or they are not getting time on a good team.  

This is an extremely young team, and extremely young teams do not know how to compete and win at the NBA level, and management is making sure that there aren't many veterans on the team that know how to win.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating.  The Hawks are going to be WORSE this year than they were in 2017-2018.  This team is built to be a sub 20 win team THIS year, and they do not have the advantage of having a coach like Bud to milk 4-5 wins above expectations out of the team.

I disagree with you that Prince couldn't be a good piece on a team.  If he comes in this year playing like he did after the all star break last year a 20, 5 and 5 guy with solid Defense usually and can stroke the 3  he would start on over half the teams in the league.    Collins has alot of potential but hasn't shown as much as Prince has yet as a player on the court although he very well could surpass him this year unless prince takes the next step as well.   Alot of fans on other teams absolutely love prince as a player and want to trade for him all the time.

[Buzzard]

1 hour ago, falconfan13 said:

I disagree with you that Prince couldn't be a good piece on a team.  If he comes in this year playing like he did after the all star break last year a 20, 5 and 5 guy with solid Defense usually and can stroke the 3  he would start on over half the teams in the league.    Collins has alot of potential but hasn't shown as much as Prince has yet as a player on the court although he very well could surpass him this year unless prince takes the next step as well.   Alot of fans on other teams absolutely love prince as a player and want to trade for him all the time.

Our players cannot be good is the argument the haters want to make. But go to other sites and some fans would give their left nut to get hold of Collins, Prince, Trae, and Huerter. Dedmon and Dennis are also liked by a few.

Pretty much a 100%  just say hell no to Baze's contract though. Thanks Bud.

[Final_quest]

11 hours ago, Buzzard said:

This is true but I think the main point is your drafted HOF player is your 1st building block, Without Wade, Miami never gets Shaq or Bron.

That’s exactly the point.  Why trading for a HOF player late in their career doesn’t work.  I’m just saying the pattern is consistent.  It’s like a precise formula.  

First you draft the cornerstone.  Then you get them another elite level talent and build the supporting cast.  

You can’t find a team that did it another way.  Watch the Lebron Lakers fail.  The reason why the Kyrie Cavs worked is because they started with Kyrie and then added Lebron and Love.  The Lakers don’t have enough to start with and Lebron won’t win a title with them.

[Buzzard]

Just now, Final_quest said:

That’s exactly the point.  Why trading for a HOF player late in their career doesn’t work.  I’m just saying the pattern is consistent.  It’s like a precise formula.  

First you draft the cornerstone.  Then you get them another elite level talent and build the supporting cast.  

You can’t find a team that did it another way.  Watch the Lebron Lakers fail.  The reason why the Kyrie Cavs worked is because they started with Kyrie and then added Lebron and Love.  The Lakers don’t have enough to start with and Lebron won’t win a title with them.

Another point that has been made here ad nauseum is drafting a HOF player does not guarantee a championship; but other than the Pistons, not drafting one all but guarantees you will never win a championship.

[MaceCase]

From this point?  ~4 years.  Can't scream for a rebuild but then be afraid to be in the dirt where the foundation is to be set.  Worse so because there's a dilapidated building with a few recalcitrant tenants still sitting on the plot of land.

[KB21]

.....and here's the big flaw in the tanking philosophy.  It's based around the premise that if you accept losing as a means of team building, you will get yourself a "Hall of Fame" player with the high pick.

If that was the case, then there would be a lot more teams competing for the NBA Championship.