Rebuild patience.........

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Didn't the lakers acquire the 1979 pick via trade?

I don't care how a team gets the picks.  Just get them.  That is the key - not how they get them.  If our Dallas pick was unprotected and we could get a #1 that way it would be worth just as much as if we tanked to get there.  The pick is the thing - you can draft with it, trade with it, entice FAs with it, etc.

Houston Rockets #1 overall 1983, #1 overall 1984 (Drafted Hakeem who led them to 2 rings)

San Antonio Spurs #1 overall 1987, #3 overall 1989 (Drafted Robinson and Eliot who were key to winning their first championship - added a #1 overall a couple years later to the mix)

Chicago Bulls #5 overall 1983, #3 overall 1984, #9 overall 1986, #4 overall 1987 (drafted Jordan and Pip who led to 6 rings)

Lakers #1 overall 1979, #1 overall 1982 (Magic and Worthy multiple titles)

Boston #6 overall 1978, #3 overall 1980 (Bird and McHale multiple titles)

Also -

Cleveland 2011-14 #1, #4, #1, #1 (2016 ring a ding)

Boston was close 2006 #7, 2007 #5 (2008 champions)

[Peoriabird]

15 minutes ago, AHF said:

I don't care how a team gets the picks.  Just get them.  That is the key - not how they get them.A

I was specifically referring to the team being bad enough to get 2 top 5 picks in a short period of time over a 3 year period.  and Many of those you listed don't qualify

[Peoriabird]

Pippen was acquire in a trade also

Didn't Robinson have some military commitment his 1st year?

[AHF]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

I was specifically referring to the team being bad enough to get 2 top 5 picks in a short period of time over a 3 year period.  and Many of those you listed don't qualify

Only the Lakers didn't get all their picks by sucking.  For example, the Celtics traded for their McHale pick but they gave up the #1 overall pick to get him and Parrish and they got that by sucking.  For the more recent Boston example, they finished with the #6 and #2 worst records in the league.

Houston was terrible both seasons they got their picks. 

Same for SA. 

Chicago got their consecutive top 5 picks by record (#2 worst record which got them Jordan and #5 worst record) and were had the 5th worst record in the league again which led to them flipping that pick for Seattle's to get Pippen.

 

 

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Pippen was acquire in a trade also

Didn't Robinson have some military commitment his 1st year?

The Bulls had the 5th worst record in the league when they traded for the draft pick they used to take Pippen (similar to the Dirk / Tractor Traylor trade where both teams were sorry) and two top 5 worst records in a row when they got Jordan.

Robinson was a Navy graduate so he absolutely did have a military commitment that prevented him from playing in the NBA right out of college.  It was similar to the Sixers strategy of taking guys who won't play initially and using the time to get more top picks by terrible record.

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

Only the Lakers didn't get all their picks by sucking.  For example, the Celtics traded for their McHale pick but they gave up the #1 overall pick to get him and Parrish and they got that by sucking.  For the more recent Boston example, they finished with the #6 and #2 worst records in the league.

Houston was terrible both seasons they got their picks. 

Same for SA. 

Chicago got their consecutive top 5 picks by record (#2 worst record which got them Jordan and #5 worst record) and were had the 5th worst record in the league again which led to them flipping that pick for Seattle's to get Pippen.

 

 

Robinson had a 2 year military commitment after being drafted

[AHF]

13 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Robinson had a 2 year military commitment after being drafted

Same thought process as the Sixers.  Get your stud and suck for a couple more years.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Same thought process as the Sixers.  Get your stud and suck for a couple more years.

All I am trying to say is that your 1st top 5 pick isn't going to suck to the point where you will be back in the top 5 the following year unless your 1st top 5 pick doesn't pay or is a bust.  If he is a bust then you aren't winning a championship with him.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

All I am trying to say is that your 1st top 5 pick isn't going to suck to the point where you will be back in the top 5 the following year unless your 1st top 5 pick doesn't pay or is a bust.  If he is a bust then you aren't winning a championship with him.

I think when your top 5 guy is a 19 year old, then it is not that uncommon to lose a lot the next season.  Nobody is getting a rookie season where you have a 21-22 year old Tim Duncan playing those games so it will happen from time to time.  

For example, Cavs won a ring with Kyrie Irving even though the Cavs suuuuucked won only 21 games his rookie year.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

  For example, Cavs won a ring with Kyrie Irving even though the Cavs suuuuucked won only 21 games his rookie year.

The Cavs sucked in Kyrie's 4th season.  They won a championship because of Lebron

[AHF]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

The Cavs sucked in Kyrie's 4th season.  They won a championship because of Lebron

LeBron was absolutely essential and has been the best player in the game over his career so I'm not going to crap on him at all.  But that doesn't mean you should overlook how important Irving was to that ring. 

Against GS Irving averaged 27 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals and 1 block per game.  He was really important to that ring.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Against GS Irving averaged 27 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals and 1 block per game.  He was really important to that ring.

Lebron effect.  Plus his defense was the main reason he didn't go to the playoffs without lebron

[AHF]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Lebron effect.  Plus his defense was the main reason he didn't go to the playoffs without lebron

I'd say that adding LeBron and Love was really important but BS on LeBron causing Irving to average 27, 4, 4, 2, 1.  The "LeBron Effect" sure didn't work out for any of Cleveland's PGs last season.  Guess that LeBron effect only works on really talented point guards?  Both LeBron and Irving scored more than 25% of their team's total points in the finals.  They were both great.  

You tell me which of these plays was really the result of Irving and I'll assume you agree Irving owns the rest:

 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I'd say that adding LeBron and Love was really important but BS on LeBron causing Irving to average 27, 4, 4, 2, 1.  The "LeBron Effect" sure didn't work out for any of Cleveland's PGs last season.  Guess that LeBron effect only works on really talented point guards?  Both LeBron and Irving scored more than 25% of their team's total points in the finals.  They were both great.  

You tell me which of these plays was really the result of Irving and I'll assume you agree Irving owns the rest:

 

What was Dennis' average against Washington again?

[AHF]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

What was Dennis' average against Washington again?

So you can't point out anything that was due to LeBron?  I'm not surprised.

 

As for Dennis and Kyrie, why are you comparing them?  Is it an argument that anyone can look good in a given series?  

Kyrie's career averages are similar to what he did that series.  Irving averages a career 24 points, 5 assists, 3 rebounds to go with 1.5 steals a game in the playoffs.  He does it on a fantastic .573% TS% to go with glowing advanced metrics.

Dennis does none of those things.

 

Now you are making me feel dirty for talking about Irving just to set the record straight.  Please let me go back to just hating on him and his flat world, Celtics lifestyle.

 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

So you can't point out anything that was due to LeBron?  I'm not surprised.

 

As for Dennis and Kyrie, why are you comparing them?  Is it an argument that anyone can look good in a given series?  

Kyrie's career averages are similar to what he did that series.  Irving averages a career 24 points, 5 assists, 3 rebounds to go with 1.5 steals a game in the playoffs.  He does it on a fantastic .573% TS% to go with glowing advanced metrics.

Dennis does none of those things.

 

Now you are making me feel dirty for talking about Irving just to set the record straight.  Please let me go back to just hating on him and his flat world, Celtics lifestyle.

 

But you get my point that teams that constantly picking in the top 5 are blowing their picks or there are special circumstances like the player(s) picked was unavailable.

[AHF]

13 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

But you get my point that teams that constantly picking in the top 5 are blowing their picks or there are special circumstances like the player(s) picked was unavailable.

Oh, I don't disagree with that over time.  Just saying you could draft the next Steve Nash and suck for a bit longer.  Over time, I totally agree the ones who don't emerge are not emerging because they are incompetent.  See Sacramento (bad at drafting, bad at trades, bad at FA - the trifecta).  

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

Oh, I don't disagree with that over time.  Just saying you could draft the next Steve Nash and suck for a bit longer.  Over time, I totally agree the ones who don't emerge are not emerging because they are incompetent.  See Sacramento (bad at drafting, bad at trades, bad at FA - the trifecta).  

If there is no line up manipulation this season, the Hawks most likely won't be in the top 5 unless they win the lottery or there are multiple real injuries or Schlenk steps in again and trades half the team.

[JayBirdHawk]

35 minutes ago, AHF said:

Oh, I don't disagree with that over time.  Just saying you could draft the next Steve Nash and suck for a bit longer.  Over time, I totally agree the ones who don't emerge are not emerging because they are incompetent.  See Sacramento (bad at drafting, bad at trades, bad at FA - the trifecta).  

...bad GM, worse Owner.

[JayBirdHawk]

28 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

If there is no line up manipulation this season, the Hawks most likely won't be in the top 5 unless they win the lottery or there are multiple real injuries or Schlenk steps in again and trades half the team.

If the roster as it currently stands is the same when the season ends with everyone playing throughout the season, I don't think we'd have a top 5 worse record.

If Prince continues where he left off last season, John Collins SL improvement translates, Ded doing Ded things, Baze retains his consistency from this past year, Dennis gets his head out of his arse on defense (the 3 ball will be hit or miss) - it's not a bad starting unit.

The bench and coaching will be the unknown - new first time head coach and a bench of young players.