What's The Consensus?

[sillent]

4 hours ago, MaceCase said:

It is a marathon.  But you were running with a bum knee.  You're well behind the leader and progressively getting farther back from the pack.  With each progressive mile you run you are causing yourself further damage to your body yet.... you decide to keep running?  You imagine you'll catch your 80th wind and catch up to the rest of the runners?  A lightning bolt will strike everyone at the finish line allowing you to complete at whatever pace you do?  A fleet of condors will fly in and scoop you off to the finish line?

None of that will happen, you will fail to complete the race and even if you manage to crawl your way across that finish line you will be in no condition whatsoever to compete in the next marathon.  While others are ready for their next marathon and even while novices are training to run in their first marathon, you'll be in surgery.  Recuperation after that, and after that you'll be in rehab.  

You'll be months and years behind in your ability to even get yourself able to run another race and why?  All because of your stubbornness. Because you chose to ignore your body and the race around you with your "winners never quit" mentality.  Instead of recognizing the risk, getting your knee healthy, and ready to run the next marathon you told yourself "no, I'm going to run this race". 

Lol... You don't know me good. I haven't met a challenge uncompleted and if I do I eat healthy, strengthen up and get back in it. If I come in out of shape the 1st time I do what's necessary to be ready the next time around. I don't wait for a magical pill before I believe I can finally do something. I see where I'm at so I can know where to go. I see why it was easy for LeBron to takeover the league us Capricorns on a whole other level. Those weak thoughts don't even enter mind. 

[KB21]

Just now, nathan2331 said:

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

A lot sooner than they are going to change now.

 

Thank you for proving my point that the Hawks were going nowhere.

They are going nowhere NOW, except getting worse.

[nathan2331]

 

 

They are going nowhere NOW, except getting worse.

 

I'm the short term sure, but if we draft the right guy we'll be better off than when we started.

[AHF]

37 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Paul was 14th in RPM wins in 2014-2015, 11th in RPM wins in 2015-2016, and 16th in 2016-2017.  Paul had been a top 15 player in the NBA relative to his contribution to winning consistently over his final three seasons in Atlanta.  I have very little doubt that without an injury this past year, he would have been in the top 15-20 in the league.  

You know he wasn’t that good in the games he played.  Won’t be top 15 this year either.

[nathan2331]

You know he wasn’t that good in the games he played.  Won’t be top 15 this year either.

That would ruin his idea of paying 30 million to a player who might not even be the third best player on the Nuggets.

[sillent]

2 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

We did. We were getting progressively worse since 2014, it was time to pull the plug. Maybe y'all are fine being the 6 seed, but after 12 years I'm glad we decided to rebuild. We were never going to win a championship with Paul Millsap as our best player. Why pay him 30 million a year to score 15 ppg? Collins might eclipse him this season honestly.

 

Y'all anti-tankers have no ambition to win a championship. None at all. We were on the playoff treadmill for 12 years and you'd be fine with another 12 years of winning nothing so long as we made the playoffs. Waste of time. This rebuild might put us in a worse position, but it could see us draft a future Finals MVP. That's what happens when up your hopes in some highschoolers turning pro. What I do know is that no one has any plan on how we were going to turn the 2016-2017 Hawks into a contender in the future.

Some are stuck on the past I'm not. I'm looking at the team we currently have and see legitimate talented team. Sure I understand this year will be a learning process but I don't expect to be bad more than 2 yrs. I'd rather be playoff bound than a cell dwellar from year to year. You are not going to find a LeBron every 1st round and even than it takes time to develop into a champion. The longer you wait the longer it takes simple math.

I've seen our team after the Mookie, Steve, Mutombo days and it wasn't pretty. JR Smith and Jim Jackson. Ed Gray's, Priest Lauderdale, Willie Burton. Even the Jason Terry, Stephen Jackson, "Big Dog" Glen Robinson, Shariff Abdul Rahim, Theo Ratliff days didn't account to playoffs. Toni Kukok, Al Harrington, Antoine Walker none of them got into the playoffs. It was a sad time to be a Hawks fan. People don't understand how blessed we were to have that 10 yr playoff run. Unfortunately we didn't continue to add the right pieces to put us over the top. 

I think with the team constructed now we have a good formula in place and before we teach them that we're satisfied with losing let's build a culture of trying to win and thru trial and era figure out the growth and pieces needed to put us over the top. Losers lose because they don't want to put in the work that winners do behind the scenes to win. They keep waiting on this magic bean to help them reach the skies not realizing that even if that magic player comes he'll eventually leave because no winner likes playing for a losing culture. By the time he gets good enough to win with us he'll be taking his talents elsewhere to a team more prepared to win.

Which team would you like to be?  

[KB21]

7 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

You know he wasn’t that good in the games he played.  Won’t be top 15 this year either.

 

That would ruin his idea of paying 30 million to a player who might not even be the third best player on the Nuggets.

He will be the second best player on a team that will challenge to be a top 4 seed in the West with a healthy Millsap, the best player being 2nd round pick Jokic.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

He will be the second best player on a team that will challenge to be a top 4 seed in the West with a healthy Millsap, the best player being 2nd round pick Jokic.

It will be Jokic’s team.  Sap will be a nice supporting piece.  Great attitude, solid play and nowhere near top 15 impact.

That team was on track to maybe barely making the playoffs if you remove the injuries to Sap, Cousins, Butler, etc.

[EazyRoc]

59 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Paul was 14th in RPM wins in 2014-2015, 11th in RPM wins in 2015-2016, and 16th in 2016-2017.  Paul had been a top 15 player in the NBA relative to his contribution to winning consistently over his final three seasons in Atlanta.  I have very little doubt that without an injury this past year, he would have been in the top 15-20 in the league.  

Another flawed “advanced” statistic that rates Robert Covington the best player on the 76ers. He’s also a Top 10 player in the league. Paul’s best years are behind him and he’s on a decline as he ages. 

[MaceCase]

44 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Then we realize that having to sit out with an injury is very different than quitting.  

What you don’t realize is having an injury is a reason to quit....

[MaceCase]

34 minutes ago, sillent said:

Lol... You don't know me good. I haven't met a challenge uncompleted and if I do I eat healthy, strengthen up and get back in it. If I come in out of shape the 1st time I do what's necessary to be ready the next time around. I don't wait for a magical pill before I believe I can finally do something. I see where I'm at so I can know where to go. I see why it was easy for LeBron to takeover the league us Capricorns on a whole other level. Those weak thoughts don't even enter mind. 

If you meet a challenge uncompleted what is it you do again?

You literally just described tanking...

 

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

What you don’t realize is having an injury is a reason to quit....

Maybe to you losers, but to winners, there is never a reason to quit.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

If you meet a challenge uncompleted what is it you do again?

You literally just described tanking...

 

No, he didn't describe tanking.  

[nathan2331]

 

 

Some are stuck on the past I'm not. I'm looking at the team we currently have and see legitimate talented team. Sure I understand this year will be a learning process but I don't expect to be bad more than 2 yrs. I'd rather be playoff bound than a cell dwellar from year to year. You are not going to find a LeBron every 1st round and even than it takes time to develop into a champion. The longer you wait the longer it takes simple math.

I've seen our team after the Mookie, Steve, Mutombo days and it wasn't pretty. JR Smith and Jim Jackson. Ed Gray's, Priest Lauderdale, Willie Burton. Even the Jason Terry, Stephen Jackson, "Big Dog" Glen Robinson, Shariff Abdul Rahim, Theo Ratliff days didn't account to playoffs. Toni Kukok, Al Harrington, Antoine Walker none of them got into the playoffs. It was a sad time to be a Hawks fan. People don't understand how blessed we were to have that 10 yr playoff run. Unfortunately we didn't continue to add the right pieces to put us over the top. 

I think with the team constructed now we have a good formula in place and before we teach them that we're satisfied with losing let's build a culture of trying to win and thru trial and era figure out the growth and pieces needed to put us over the top. Losers lose because they don't want to put in the work that winners do behind the scenes to win. They keep waiting on this magic bean to help them reach the skies not realizing that even if that magic player comes he'll eventually leave because no winner likes playing for a losing culture. By the time he gets good enough to win with us he'll be taking his talents elsewhere to a team more prepared to win.

Which team would you like to be?  

 

I've always maintained that this rebuild shouldn't last for more than 3 years. I don't know what Schlenk is thinking, but as far as I'm concerned, we shouldn't still be tanking once Prince hits restricted free agency because once that happens, Collins will be due the next year, then Trae, Huerter and Spellman, and so on. Right now, we have holes at SG and C that need to be filled and we have 3 picks next year. Say we draft Reddish and Gafford, we wouldn't need to keep the rebuild going. Maybe even Huerter and Spellman exceed expectations and fill in those positions. Between our picks and the cap space we will have, I like our chances of build a competitive team.

[MaceCase]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Maybe to you losers, but to winners, there is never a reason to quit.

Except when they get injured.  Or to you “winners” maybe continuing to play on that torn ACL will get the job done, yea.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, MaceCase said:

Except when they get injured.  Or to you “winners” maybe continuing to play on that torn ACL will get the job done, yea.

Wow!  So getting an injury is equal to quitting.  Wow!

Tanking is quitting.  Intentionally structuring a roster to lose games for draft position is quitting.  

Getting injured is just something that happens that keeps you out for a period of time.  Getting injured is not a choice.  Quitting is a choice.

[MaceCase]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

No, he didn't describe tanking.  

Yes he did.  If you can’t get the job done with what you have you go back, build, and acquire the necessary skills and tools to complete it.

that is tanking.

treadmilling is thinking you can hammer in that nail with only the screwdriver you have on hand and some mock.  An inefficienciet and time consuming task that will eventually end up with the job undone.

[KB21]

Just now, MaceCase said:

Yes he did.  If you can’t get the job done with what you have you go back, build, and acquire the necessary skills and tools to complete it.

that is tanking.

treadmilling is thinking you can hammer in that nail with only the screwdriver you have on hand and some mock.  An inefficienciet and time consuming task that will eventually end up with the job undone.

Correction.  Tanking is the deliberate attempt to lose and not even try to win.  What he described is what every good athlete does.  You don't make it the first time, you don't quit.  You keep working till you cross that line.  That's not tanking.  That's maintaining your competitiveness.

[MaceCase]

Just now, KB21 said:

Wow!  So getting an injury is equal to quitting.  Wow!

Tanking is quitting.  Intentionally structuring a roster to lose games for draft position is quitting.  

Getting injured is just something that happens that keeps you out for a period of time.  Getting injured is not a choice.  Quitting is a choice.

Yes, a decline in a person’s performance and capability is typically due to injury or illness, thus a reason to quit.  You’re a doctor, people don’t typically seek your help when they feel fine.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, MaceCase said:

Yes, a decline in a person’s performance and capability is typically due to injury or illness, thus a reason to quit.  You’re a doctor, people don’t typically seek your help when they feel fine.

It is not a reason to quit.  You obviously have a different definition for quitting than I do.  

Quitting is when the injured player stops pushing his body as hard as he can during his rehab because of the pain.  Getting injured is not quitting.