thecampster Posted July 28, 2018 Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, KB21 said: The team is bad. It's not going to get markedly better anytime soon. This is what happens when you decide to build with inexperienced players. See, I don't know where to go with that. It's the absolutes again...bad, good...no grey...no improving/no progress...good vs bad, white vs black, chocolate vs asparagus. The tank/rebuild is in action. It's like yelling at your teenager to drive safe over the cell phone when they've called you to say they're upside down in a ditch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazer Posted July 28, 2018 Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 Just now, thecampster said: See, I don't know where to go with that. It's the absolutes again...bad, good...no grey...no improving/no progress...good vs bad, white vs black, chocolate vs asparagus. The tank/rebuild is in action. It's like yelling at your teenager to drive safe over the cell phone when they've called you to say they're upside down in a ditch. He can’t grasp the concepts of nuance or pragmatism. Just concede that his mind, job, pay scale, and basketball acumen far exceed ours and let’s move along ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted July 28, 2018 Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 Just now, turnermx said: You’re completely missing the point others have made here. These players, while in need of development are already at a skill level right now which far exceeds that of the players the team relied on last year. The team also will not depend on them to carry the bulk of the minutes at their respective positions excluding the possibility of an injury to a starter with only the possible exception of Trae. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro This is not a true statement. Marco Belinelli was a 0.3 WAR player last year. The Hawks are replacing him with a player who is projected to have a -0.6 WAR this year. That's a downgrade. Ersan Ilyasova had a 1.7 WAR last year. The Hawks are replacing him with a player who is projected to have a -0.1 WAR this year. That's a downgrade. Mike Muscala had a 0.4 WAR last year. They are replacing him with a player who is projected to have a 0.2 WAR this year. This is a slight downgrade, but let's call it a push. Justin Anderson will be replacing Belinelli's and Bazemore's minutes at small forward, not Antonius Cleveland's and Andrew White's minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member turnermx Posted July 28, 2018 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 This is not a true statement. Marco Belinelli was a 0.3 WAR player last year. The Hawks are replacing him with a player who is projected to have a -0.6 WAR this year. That's a downgrade. Ersan Ilyasova had a 1.7 WAR last year. The Hawks are replacing him with a player who is projected to have a -0.1 WAR this year. That's a downgrade. Mike Muscala had a 0.4 WAR last year. They are replacing him with a player who is projected to have a 0.2 WAR this year. This is a slight downgrade, but let's call it a push. Justin Anderson will be replacing Belinelli's and Bazemore's minutes at small forward, not Antonius Cleveland's and Andrew White's minutes. Now you’re [emoji523] picking stats to suit your argument just like you [emoji523] pick news articles to support it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted July 28, 2018 Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 22 minutes ago, turnermx said: You’re completely missing the point others have made here. These players, while in need of development are already at a skill level right now which far exceeds that of the players the team relied on last year. The team also will not depend on them to carry the bulk of the minutes at their respective positions excluding the possibility of an injury to a starter with only the possible exception of Trae. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro I don't even know how he dreams this stuff up. Best players on lottery teams are almost always their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year draft picks. Curry, Bosh, Wade, Shaq, Vinsanity, Paul Pierce, Amare, Malone, Jordan the list is like forever. But for some reason that is a bad thing. Like I said earlier, a soap opera writer would have a hard time dreaming up the non sense that gets posted here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted July 28, 2018 Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, turnermx said: Now you’re picking stats to suit your argument just like you pick news articles to support it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro I pick stats that actually correlate with winning, considering that WAR represents Wins Above Replacement level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted July 28, 2018 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 26 minutes ago, turnermx said: You’re completely missing the point others have made here. These players, while in need of development are already at a skill level right now which far exceeds that of the players the team relied on last year. The team also will not depend on them to carry the bulk of the minutes at their respective positions excluding the possibility of an injury to a starter with only the possible exception of Trae. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro You just went down the rabbitt hole with him which is exactly where he wants you...He wants to debate how good or bad players are on the team. We were not debating whether the players are better this year vs last year because you can't objectively evauate players who have neither played in the league or in Pierce's system yet. We were debating his claim that Schlenk/Pierce want to play the more inexperienced players over the best players on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted July 28, 2018 Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said: You just went down the rabbitt hole with him which is exactly where he wants you...He wants to debate how good or bad players are on the team. We were not debating whether the players are better this year vs last year because you can't objectively evauate players who have neither played in the league or in Pierce's system yet. We were debating his claim that Schlenk/Pierce want to play the more inexperienced players over the best players on the roster. And the bigger rabbit hole is this thread is about playing defense or not. So any reference to who is playing should also state something about defense. Which is what this thread is about. Now you know why I will never respond to a KB post again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member turnermx Posted July 28, 2018 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 And the bigger rabbit hole is this thread is about playing defense or not. So any reference to who is playing should also state something about defense. Which is what this thread is about. Now you know why I will never respond to a KB post again. [emoji17] I’m right there with you .. have enough rabbit holes to go down Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted July 28, 2018 Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 minute ago, turnermx said: I’m right there with you .. have enough rabbit holes to go down Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro I tried to stay on track by referring to defense, In particular a defensive improvement with the additions of Len and Anderson. I think Lin will be better than Dennis or Dorsey as well when he comes back healthy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted July 28, 2018 Moderators Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Peoriabird said: Total ignored the gist of the discussion to dump on the team but yet some think that you are now positive? lol at @AHF Sometimes you don’t even read what people post and just take shots at strawmen. You are smart enough not to resort to that. If you are going to call me out, at least accurately repeat what I said. (Short version for this is that KB remains down on the team’s chances of winning this year and on Schlenk but in a break from unrelenting negativity has been high on the wisdom of a number of moves this summer including drafting Trae and Huerter, trading for Lin and trading away Dennis). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted July 28, 2018 Moderators Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 43 minutes ago, Buzzard said: I tried to stay on track by referring to defense, In particular a defensive improvement with the additions of Len and Anderson. I think Lin will be better than Dennis or Dorsey as well when he comes back healthy. Agree 100% on Anderson being a big asset on D. Len should also be an upgrade if not quite as good. I’m eager to see Lin on the floor to see if he is healthy and how he physically holds up. If he is back to where he was, he is a clear upgrade on Dorsey and should have fewer holes on D than Dennis. If he has trouble staying on the floor for the third straight year, our D will likely be worse at the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted July 28, 2018 Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, AHF said: Agree 100% on Anderson being a big asset on D. Len should also be an upgrade if not quite as good. I’m eager to see Lin on the floor to see if he is healthy and how he physically holds up. If he is back to where he was, he is a clear upgrade on Dorsey and should have fewer holes on D than Dennis. If he has trouble staying on the floor for the third straight year, our D will likely be worse at the point. The trade off with Len is that what he brings as a rim protector is offset by his inability to switch on the perimeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted July 28, 2018 Moderators Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 Just now, KB21 said: The trade off with Len is that what he brings as a rim protector is offset by his inability to switch on the perimeter. Agree. He is not useful against mobile bigs so he is situational. He should be an upgrade when he plays and should sit versus perimeter, mobile bigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted July 28, 2018 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, AHF said: (Short version for this is that KB remains down on the team’s chances of winning this year and on Schlenk So KB21 is down on just those 2 things..Oh O.K. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted July 28, 2018 Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 Something I think is topic related: Career DBPM Additions: Alex Len +1,2 Justin Anderson -0.1 Jeremy Lin -0.4 Totals = +0.7 Subtractions: Mike Muscala +.9 Ersan Ilyasova -0.4 Dennis Schröder -1.6 Marco Belinelli -1.9 Totals = -3,0 I do look for a uptick in defense and look for even a bigger improvement in rebounding. Color me optimistic but I think the numbers bear out this possibility as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted July 28, 2018 Moderators Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 18 minutes ago, Peoriabird said: So KB21 is down on just those 2 things..Oh O.K. LOL! If you don’t think being high on the three biggest things the Hawks did this summer is a change for him then I don’t know what to say. Not sure if this is supposed to be telling me or him or both but you are a better poster when you have a slight bit of contextualization and nuance in your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted July 28, 2018 Moderators Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 12 minutes ago, Buzzard said: Something I think is topic related: Career DBPM Additions: Alex Len +1,2 Justin Anderson -0.1 Jeremy Lin -0.4 Totals = +0.7 Subtractions: Mike Muscala +.9 Ersan Ilyasova -0.4 Dennis Schröder -1.6 Marco Belinelli -1.9 Totals = -3,0 I do look for a uptick in defense and look for even a bigger improvement in rebounding. Color me optimistic but I think the numbers bear out this possibility as well. While I think you will see some pretty negative numbers for our rookies, I think it is very likely that you can also bank on improvements for Prince and Collins. They should improve, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted July 28, 2018 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, AHF said: If you don’t think being high on the three biggest things the Hawks did this summer is a change for him then I don’t know what to say. Not sure if this is supposed to be telling me or him or both but you are a better poster when you have a slight bit of contextualization and nuance in your posts. He must be a friend of yours or this is the great Sarah Huckabee Sanders impersonation ever! Lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted July 28, 2018 Moderators Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Peoriabird said: He must be a friend of yours or this is the great Sarah Huckabee Sanders impersonation ever! Lol! You deliberately misrepresented what someone said for “lols” and are comparing me to Sanders? If all you have to respond with is non-substantive insults then I guess throw in another lol post to make yourself feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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