WILL THIS HAWK TEAM PLAY SOME DEFENSE? YES OR NO....

[AHF]

3 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Y'all love to evaluate players that will not get much playing time.  Wonder why Bembry wasn't mentioned?  Plus Young's defense wasn't bad in summer league.  Len Is a very good rim protector so far from bad.  Actually Plumlee's defense is not bad either

You must be posting that comment on Young for others benefit because I know you don't think I care about what his defense looked like against a bunch of summer league scrubs!  I mean I guess I care because I really liked seeing the effort he put in after a more lax attitude in college but I absolutely don't take jack from his ability to mostly stick with D-League talent level opponents.

Bembry comes in as a good defender but I getting more worried that he won't be seeing many minutes in the rotation.  Hopefully this goes down as me overlooking him but the injuries and offensive liabilities worry me that he will be marginalized.  I'm happy to include him on the list.

Len and Plumlee are both servicable defenders.  Don't think either of them will change games with their defense very often and they are liabilities against small lineups so I don't credit them as much as a league average defender who is more versatile.  Their inability to defend smaller lineups which are an increasingly in vogue is why they are a step below what would have otherwise been an average grade.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Don't forget Dorsey!

That is the safest part of his game.  He is absolutely a plus rebounder as a combo guard.

[Buzzard]

4 hours ago, frosgrim said:

of all the things that happen on  a basketball court, a team not giving its all on rebounding is the thing that drives me insane. Just rebound the damn ball- period.  Unfortunately, i don't see this team a great rebounding team.  Maybe Pierce can get them to sellout for rebounds.

Dedmon does not take plays off. Collins does not take plays off. Len does not take plays off. Any of these three could average close to a double double if given the minutes. Now add in Prince and Spellman and we will not be a weak team on the glass,

I think we will be somewhere near 15th in rebounds and considering our youth, that is a nice bump from 25th last season. Not playing Collins solid minutes really hurt our rebounding last season. Then you have the Plumlee starting over Dedmon ( DNP ) fiasco also.

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Len does not take plays off.

Remains to be seen. He did in Phoenix when I watched some games..just going through the motions but rebounding solid.

[benhillboy]

We were 21st in defensive efficiency last season.  In the place of Illy (plus defender), Moose (meh), Dennis (poor), and a few unmentionables, good size and defensive acumen was added with Len, Lin, Anderson, and Spelman.  That’s +3.5 points.  Our HC, although labeled a “defensive” guy, is a rookie tasked with building around 20 and 21 year old offensive-minded players so that’s -3.5.  We should be around 21st again.

Is Cavanaugh still on the squad?  Loved how he always hit the glass with two hands.

[Buzzard]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Remains to be seen. He did in Phoenix when I watched some games..just going through the motions but rebounding solid.

My reply was in response to rebounding. After four years of being in chaotic loserville and regulated to the bench; I was surprised at how well he played when he got the chance. Phoenix is such a messed up organization.

They drafted Len 5th in 2013, right after the draft, they signed Tyson Chandler to a long term contract the same year. Maybe they thought they were in a win now back then, but that is how screwed up Phoenix is. They think they are close to being good; when in reality, they still suck.

[terrell]

7 hours ago, AHF said:

He isn't so much hoping to see us draft an All-Star in the lottery as looking forward to complaining about us being in the lottery.

 This is why I cant wait to play Bud, Giannis, and Milwaukee. Imagine if we pull out a win vs his favorite player/coach duo. lol

[benhillboy]

Len did have a hefty .158 ws/48 last season amidst a career .089 average.  That bump shows a light went off somewhere.

[nathan2331]

Len did have a hefty .158 ws/48 last season amidst a career .089 average.  That bump shows a light went off somewhere.

Seems like he made a commitment to playing closer to the rim and cutting some of the finesse out his game. All his attempts moved closer to the rim (average distance of 2.7 ft last year versus a career average past 6 ft) and his efficiency went up as a result. I don't know whether that was personal enlightenment or a coaching decision but we stand to reap the benefits.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Buzzard said:

My reply was in response to rebounding. After four years of being in chaotic loserville and regulated to the bench; I was surprised at how well he played when he got the chance. Phoenix is such a messed up organization.

They drafted Len 5th in 2013, right after the draft, they signed Tyson Chandler to a long term contract the same year. Maybe they thought they were in a win now back then, but that is how screwed up Phoenix is. They think they are close to being good; when in reality, they still suck.

Oh sorry...I didn’t know you were talking about rebounding..my bad.

[Buzzard]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Oh sorry...I didn’t know you were talking about rebounding..my bad.

Yes rebounding and defense. I went on a rebounding tangent because I think we will greatly improve with a better balanced big man rotation. Len is a beast on the boards and that is just not a per 36 stat. Give the kid 30 minutes and he is apt to end up with a double double most of the time.

Besides seeing Trae, Huerter, Prince, and Baze play 3ball, I really can't wait to see how Pierce utilizes our bigs.

[bleachkit]

12 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Here’s hoping Gramps! Defense and rebound is about heart and effort. Barkley and Rodman weren’t the physical prototypes for rebounding yet they were two of the best in history. 

I think it will be a process like the rest of the growth of our team, it won’t come overnight, but good daily defensive habits and principles can turn into something special. We set the environment for our players, now they have to accept it and immerse themselves in it.

 

GO YOUNG HAWKS GOOOOOO!!!

Defense and rebounding is not all about heart ang effort. That's simply not true. It's requires lat

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I would be SHOCKED if this team was above 27th in defense this season.

[thecampster]

Games played by Atlanta bigs (that mattered) last year.

Dedmon - 62

Muscala - 53

Plumlee - 55

Ersan - 46

Collins - 74

Notice the trend. Every big last year missed time due to injury (or trade). Just having a healthy front court alone is enough to improved rebounding and defense.

The simple act of swapping Len for Muscala's 4.3 rpg in 20 minutes should improve that stat all by itself.

Both Len and Muscala played 20 mpg last year.  

Len - 8.5 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 56.6% FG% .  5.5 FGA/g

Moose - 7.6 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 45.8% FG% 5.6 FGA/g

The only area Moose > Len is 3 pt shooting.   Even 3 point shooting, Moose took .1 more shots per game but scored .9 less points. 

Re-beating my dead horse, the easiest aspects of defense to clean up are fast break opportunities for the other team and 2nd chance opportunities given up by just shooting better and rebounding better. Both the higher rebounding rate and better shooting percentage will help in that category defensively.

Same song different verse, despite what most fans' eye test shows, Marco Belinelli was a big net negative for the team last year (and metrics bear it out). His 41% overall shooting (37% on 3's, 45% on 2's) led to fast breaks. He played poor defense and rebounded at a paltry 1.9 rpg. The simple subtraction of Belinelli will be a net defensive positive for the Hawks. Marco's net numbers per 100 possessions showed the Hawks were 1.8 points better on offense without Marco on the floor and a whopping 4.9 points better on defense without Belinelli. Rotationally, Marco's minutes should be taken by Dorsey, Bembry or Huerter who are all better defenders and rebounders. 

[thecampster]

29 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I would be SHOCKED if this team was above 27th in defense this season.

Smelling a bet I might finally take.

[Buzzard]

9 hours ago, thecampster said:

Games played by Atlanta bigs (that mattered) last year.

Dedmon - 62

Muscala - 53

Plumlee - 55

Ersan - 46

Collins - 74

Notice the trend. Every big last year missed time due to injury (or trade). Just having a healthy front court alone is enough to improved rebounding and defense.

The simple act of swapping Len for Muscala's 4.3 rpg in 20 minutes should improve that stat all by itself.

Both Len and Muscala played 20 mpg last year.  

Len - 8.5 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 56.6% FG% .  5.5 FGA/g

Moose - 7.6 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 45.8% FG% 5.6 FGA/g

The only area Moose > Len is 3 pt shooting.   Even 3 point shooting, Moose took .1 more shots per game but scored .9 less points. 

Re-beating my dead horse, the easiest aspects of defense to clean up are fast break opportunities for the other team and 2nd chance opportunities given up by just shooting better and rebounding better. Both the higher rebounding rate and better shooting percentage will help in that category defensively.

Same song different verse, despite what most fans' eye test shows, Marco Belinelli was a big net negative for the team last year (and metrics bear it out). His 41% overall shooting (37% on 3's, 45% on 2's) led to fast breaks. He played poor defense and rebounded at a paltry 1.9 rpg. The simple subtraction of Belinelli will be a net defensive positive for the Hawks. Marco's net numbers per 100 possessions showed the Hawks were 1.8 points better on offense without Marco on the floor and a whopping 4.9 points better on defense without Belinelli. Rotationally, Marco's minutes should be taken by Dorsey, Bembry or Huerter who are all better defenders and rebounders. 

There are those who think Schlenk is a horrible GM and none of his off season moves have made us better, In fact, every move in some of the debbie downers opinions, have made us a worse team.

Replacing Muscala and regulating Plumlee to less minutes ( if any at all ) should be enough to show how our defense and rebounding will improve. But you are beating a dead horse. Same result if you try and explain that replacing Dennis with Lin and Trae will make us better,

They predict less wins based on emotions and until the season gets well underway that is all they see. We are going to be a better team and this is through addition and subtraction. I think Schlenk did a hell of a job getting this dead beat franchise moving in the right direction in just two off seasons; and I cannot remember the last time the national media was this interested in the Hawks.

Haters going to hate but pretty soon they will be asking for some A1 to splash on all that crow they will be eating.

[AHF]

49 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

There are those who think Schlenk is a horrible GM and none of his off season moves have made us better, In fact, every move in some of the debbie downers opinions, have made us a worse team.

Who fits this description?  I literally can't think of a single poster who didn't like some part of this offseason.

[Buzzard]

Just now, AHF said:

Who fits this description?  I literally can't think of a single poster who didn't like some part of this offseason.

Close to everyone who says our record will be worse.

Quote

There are those who think Schlenk is a horrible GM and none of his off season moves have made us better,

Key word is on the end of my sentence.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Buzzard said:

Close to everyone who says our record will be worse.

 

Again, can you ID any posters that have thought we made nothing but bad moves?

I'll use KB as an example.  He has the lowest projection for this team of any posters I've seen so far.  Yet he has had praise for the draft, for the Dennis trade and for bringing in veteran mentors like Lin.  Maybe I'm missing the point of your post.

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

Again, can you ID any posters that have thought we made nothing but bad moves?

I'll use KB as an example.  He has the lowest projection for this team of any posters I've seen so far.  Yet he has had praise for the draft, for the Dennis trade and for bringing in veteran mentors like Lin.  Maybe I'm missing the point of your post.

KB21 has called Schlenk a horrible GM on numerous occasions and mere fact that he projects 6 few wins despite a weaker east implies that he has made the team worse.