WILL THIS HAWK TEAM PLAY SOME DEFENSE? YES OR NO....

[thecampster]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The team is bad.  It's not going to get markedly better anytime soon.  This is what happens when you decide to build with inexperienced players.  

See, I don't know where to go with that.  It's the absolutes again...bad, good...no grey...no improving/no progress...good vs bad, white vs black, chocolate vs asparagus.  The tank/rebuild is in action.  It's like yelling at your teenager to drive safe over the cell phone when they've called you to say they're upside down in a ditch.

[hazer]

Just now, thecampster said:

See, I don't know where to go with that.  It's the absolutes again...bad, good...no grey...no improving/no progress...good vs bad, white vs black, chocolate vs asparagus.  The tank/rebuild is in action.  It's like yelling at your teenager to drive safe over the cell phone when they've called you to say they're upside down in a ditch.

He can’t grasp the concepts of nuance or pragmatism. Just concede that his mind, job, pay scale, and basketball acumen far exceed ours and let’s move along ?

[KB21]

Just now, turnermx said:

 

You’re completely missing the point others have made here. These players, while in need of development are already at a skill level right now which far exceeds that of the players the team relied on last year. The team also will not depend on them to carry the bulk of the minutes at their respective positions excluding the possibility of an injury to a starter with only the possible exception of Trae.

 

 

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This is not a true statement.  

Marco Belinelli was a 0.3 WAR player last year.  The Hawks are replacing him with a player who is projected to have a -0.6 WAR this year.  That's a downgrade.

Ersan Ilyasova had a 1.7 WAR last year.  The Hawks are replacing him with a player who is projected to have a -0.1 WAR this year.  That's a downgrade.

Mike Muscala had a 0.4 WAR last year.  They are replacing him with a player who is projected to have a 0.2 WAR this year.  This is a slight downgrade, but let's call it a push.  

Justin Anderson will be replacing Belinelli's and Bazemore's minutes at small forward, not Antonius Cleveland's and Andrew White's minutes.

[turnermx]

This is not a true statement.  

Marco Belinelli was a 0.3 WAR player last year.  The Hawks are replacing him with a player who is projected to have a -0.6 WAR this year.  That's a downgrade.

Ersan Ilyasova had a 1.7 WAR last year.  The Hawks are replacing him with a player who is projected to have a -0.1 WAR this year.  That's a downgrade.

Mike Muscala had a 0.4 WAR last year.  They are replacing him with a player who is projected to have a 0.2 WAR this year.  This is a slight downgrade, but let's call it a push.  

Justin Anderson will be replacing Belinelli's and Bazemore's minutes at small forward, not Antonius Cleveland's and Andrew White's minutes.

 

Now you’re [emoji523] picking stats to suit your argument just like you [emoji523] pick news articles to support it.

 

 

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[Buzzard]

22 minutes ago, turnermx said:

 

You’re completely missing the point others have made here. These players, while in need of development are already at a skill level right now which far exceeds that of the players the team relied on last year. The team also will not depend on them to carry the bulk of the minutes at their respective positions excluding the possibility of an injury to a starter with only the possible exception of Trae.

 

 

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I don't even know how he dreams this stuff up. Best players on lottery teams are almost always their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year draft picks. Curry, Bosh, Wade, Shaq, Vinsanity, Paul Pierce, Amare, Malone, Jordan the list is like forever. But for some reason that is a bad thing.

Like I said earlier, a soap opera writer would have a hard time dreaming up the non sense that gets posted here.

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, turnermx said:

 

Now you’re picking stats to suit your argument just like you pick news articles to support it.

 

 

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I pick stats that actually correlate with winning, considering that WAR represents Wins Above Replacement level.

[Peoriabird]

26 minutes ago, turnermx said:

 

You’re completely missing the point others have made here. These players, while in need of development are already at a skill level right now which far exceeds that of the players the team relied on last year. The team also will not depend on them to carry the bulk of the minutes at their respective positions excluding the possibility of an injury to a starter with only the possible exception of Trae.

 

 

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You just went down the rabbitt hole with him which is exactly where he wants you...He wants to debate how good or bad players are on the team. We were not debating whether the players are better this year vs last year because you can't objectively evauate players who have neither played in the league or in Pierce's system yet.  We were debating his claim that Schlenk/Pierce want to play the more inexperienced players over the best players on the roster.

[Buzzard]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

You just went down the rabbitt hole with him which is exactly where he wants you...He wants to debate how good or bad players are on the team. We were not debating whether the players are better this year vs last year because you can't objectively evauate players who have neither played in the league or in Pierce's system yet.  We were debating his claim that Schlenk/Pierce want to play the more inexperienced players over the best players on the roster.

And the bigger rabbit hole is this thread is about playing defense or not. So any reference to who is playing should also state something about defense. Which is what this thread is about.

Now you know why I will never respond to a KB post again.

[turnermx]

And the bigger rabbit hole is this thread is about playing defense or not. So any reference to who is playing should also state something about defense. Which is what this thread is about.

Now you know why I will never respond to a KB post again.

 

[emoji17] I’m right there with you .. have enough rabbit holes to go down

 

 

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[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, turnermx said:

 

I’m right there with you .. have enough rabbit holes to go down

 

 

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I tried to stay on track by referring to defense, In particular a defensive improvement with the additions of Len and Anderson. I think Lin will be better than Dennis or Dorsey as well when he comes back healthy.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Total ignored the gist of the discussion to dump on the team but yet some think that you are now positive? lol at @AHF

Sometimes you don’t even read what people post and just take shots at strawmen.  You are smart enough not to resort to that.

If you are going to call me out, at least accurately repeat what I said.  (Short version for this is that KB remains down on the team’s chances of winning this year and on Schlenk but in a break from unrelenting negativity has been high on the wisdom of a number of moves this summer including drafting Trae and Huerter, trading for Lin and trading away Dennis).

[AHF]

43 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I tried to stay on track by referring to defense, In particular a defensive improvement with the additions of Len and Anderson. I think Lin will be better than Dennis or Dorsey as well when he comes back healthy.

Agree 100% on Anderson being a big asset on D.  Len should also be an upgrade if not quite as good.  I’m eager to see Lin on the floor to see if he is healthy and how he physically holds up.  If he is back to where he was, he is a clear upgrade on Dorsey and should have fewer holes on D than Dennis.  If he has trouble staying on the floor for the third straight year, our D will likely be worse at the point.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Agree 100% on Anderson being a big asset on D.  Len should also be an upgrade if not quite as good.  I’m eager to see Lin on the floor to see if he is healthy and how he physically holds up.  If he is back to where he was, he is a clear upgrade on Dorsey and should have fewer holes on D than Dennis.  If he has trouble staying on the floor for the third straight year, our D will likely be worse at the point.

The trade off with Len is that what he brings as a rim protector is offset by his inability to switch on the perimeter.

[AHF]

Just now, KB21 said:

The trade off with Len is that what he brings as a rim protector is offset by his inability to switch on the perimeter.

Agree.  He is not useful against mobile bigs so he is situational.  He should be an upgrade when he plays and should sit versus perimeter, mobile bigs.

[Peoriabird]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

(Short version for this is that KB remains down on the team’s chances of winning this year and on Schlenk

So KB21 is down on just those 2 things..Oh O.K. LOL!

[Buzzard]

Something I think is topic related:

Career DBPM

Additions:

Alex Len  +1,2

Justin Anderson -0.1

Jeremy Lin  -0.4

Totals = +0.7

Subtractions:

Mike Muscala +.9

Ersan Ilyasova -0.4

Dennis Schröder -1.6

Marco Belinelli -1.9

Totals = -3,0

I do look for a uptick in defense and look for even a bigger improvement in rebounding. Color me optimistic but I think the numbers bear out this possibility as well.

 

 

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So KB21 is down on just those 2 things..Oh O.K. LOL!

If you don’t think being high on the three biggest things the Hawks did this summer is a change for him then I don’t know what to say.  Not sure if this is supposed to be telling me or him or both but you are a better poster when you have a slight bit of contextualization and nuance in your posts.

[AHF]

12 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Something I think is topic related:

Career DBPM

Additions:

Alex Len  +1,2

Justin Anderson -0.1

Jeremy Lin  -0.4

Totals = +0.7

Subtractions:

Mike Muscala +.9

Ersan Ilyasova -0.4

Dennis Schröder -1.6

Marco Belinelli -1.9

Totals = -3,0

I do look for a uptick in defense and look for even a bigger improvement in rebounding. Color me optimistic but I think the numbers bear out this possibility as well.

 

 

While I think you will see some pretty negative numbers for our rookies, I think it is very likely that you can also bank on improvements for Prince and Collins.  They should improve, anyway.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

If you don’t think being high on the three biggest things the Hawks did this summer is a change for him then I don’t know what to say.  Not sure if this is supposed to be telling me or him or both but you are a better poster when you have a slight bit of contextualization and nuance in your posts.

He must be a friend of yours or this is the great Sarah Huckabee Sanders impersonation ever! Lol!

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

He must be a friend of yours or this is the great Sarah Huckabee Sanders impersonation ever! Lol!

You deliberately misrepresented what someone said for “lols” and are comparing me to Sanders?  If all you have to respond with is non-substantive insults then I guess throw in another lol post to make yourself feel better.