HOW BAD ARE THE HAWKS, REALLY?

[Gray Mule]

We all know that this season's team is not great.  No argument on this point.  There are teams in the NBA right now expecting to be in the fight for the championship.  They are, right now, the great ones.  Exclude us right here.

There are 30 NBA teams.  Are we really #30 when rated from great to terrible?  Think of it on a player by player position.  Example:  We expect Dedmon to be our starting center.  Are the other 29 starting centers better than ours?

The bench:  Do the other 29 teams all have better benches than Atlanta?  Are there 29 better starting PF's than Collins?

Dang!  Is everyone better than us at every turn?  As bad as some "experts" rate the Hawks, we is terrible!

[hazer]

28 wins and 5th-to-10th in the lottery. So not “the worst” bad, IMO.

[Peoriabird]

Why Trae Young Could Struggle This Year

While it is well known that Young led the NCAA in points and assists, he also led the nation in another category: turnovers. He coupled 8.2 assists with 5.2 turnovers per game. The Sooners lost 11 of its final 15 games. Young’s numbers fell across the board in conference play, slashing just .393/.326/.863 against the Sooners more quality opponents. The biggest knock (other than turnovers) on Young’s offensive game, was that he didn’t shoot the ball at great percentages when it really mattered.

While the NBA Summer League is far from the final measuring stick for NBA prospects, it isn’t exactly encouraging that Young shot just 23.1 percent from the field and 12.5 percent from three in Utah, particularly as a guy who comes in to the league as a “shooter.” Young also averaged 3.6 turnovers across three games in Salt Lake City (before improving in Vegas) and posted a -56 plus/minus. Again, this is all to be taken with the saltiest grains of salt. If anything, it adds even more intrigue for the regular season. Young was playing against far lesser talent in the summer league than what he will see in the NBA, but he was also playing with lesser players.

---

Ultimately, the former Sooner will need to mature a little bit on the court. He no longer needs to carry his team to wins all by himself. He made some heavily contested shots in summer league and missed some that he should’ve made. He showed flashes of the kind of player he was in college.

Once he gets some real game reps in and gets his feet wet, he should be fine. Most rookies need time to adjust to the NBA game. The good news for Young is that Atlanta is a young team playing the rebuilding game. Winning now is not a priority for this team, and that should give Young plenty of room to grow. Having vets like Jeremy Lin and Vince Carter in the locker room should also help his transition.

[Final_quest]

It's not so much that we have the absolute worst starter at every position, but we are probably bottom 10 at every position next year.  Dedmon or Collins on their own will not get a lot of wins.  Collins is still too young.  Dedmon will never be more than a good role player.  

So, we may not have the worst player at every position, but we also don't have an all star or true impact player anywhere.  We hope we are developing a couple impact players, but they are not ready to win games. 

 

I'm expecting 23 wins and for us to be in the bottom 3 teams in the league.  

[thecampster]

Westbrook = 4.8 TO/game last year, Harden = 4.4 TO/game. With usage comes turnovers. The goal is eliminating the unnecessary turnovers.

12 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Why Trae Young Could Struggle This Year

While it is well known that Young led the NCAA in points and assists, he also led the nation in another category: turnovers. He coupled 8.2 assists with 5.2 turnovers per game. The Sooners lost 11 of its final 15 games.

 

[Vol4ever]

I see us as one of the worst teams in the league.   IMO we made a pretty big mistake in the lottery portion of the draft.  I hope I'm proven wrong, but he is out on control and is a huge gamble for the franchise.  

[JayBirdHawk]

13 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Why Trae Young Could Struggle This Year

While it is well known that Young led the NCAA in points and assists, he also led the nation in another category: turnovers. He coupled 8.2 assists with 5.2 turnovers per game. The Sooners lost 11 of its final 15 games. Young’s numbers fell across the board in conference play, slashing just .393/.326/.863 against the Sooners more quality opponents. The biggest knock (other than turnovers) on Young’s offensive game, was that he didn’t shoot the ball at great percentages when it really mattered.

While the NBA Summer League is far from the final measuring stick for NBA prospects, it isn’t exactly encouraging that Young shot just 23.1 percent from the field and 12.5 percent from three in Utah, particularly as a guy who comes in to the league as a “shooter.” Young also averaged 3.6 turnovers across three games in Salt Lake City (before improving in Vegas) and posted a -56 plus/minus. Again, this is all to be taken with the saltiest grains of salt. If anything, it adds even more intrigue for the regular season. Young was playing against far lesser talent in the summer league than what he will see in the NBA, but he was also playing with lesser players.

---

Ultimately, the former Sooner will need to mature a little bit on the court. He no longer needs to carry his team to wins all by himself. He made some heavily contested shots in summer league and missed some that he should’ve made. He showed flashes of the kind of player he was in college.

Once he gets some real game reps in and gets his feet wet, he should be fine. Most rookies need time to adjust to the NBA game. The good news for Young is that Atlanta is a young team playing the rebuilding game. Winning now is not a priority for this team, and that should give Young plenty of room to grow. Having vets like Jeremy Lin and Vince Carter in the locker room should also help his transition.

Entire article....

Why We Should Believe That Trae Young Will Be Just Fine

The 6’2 guard led the NCAA in both scoring and assists last season. That’s impressive no matter how you slice it. He dragged an otherwise poor Oklahoma team to the NCAA tournament all while playing in the toughest conference in America. He only shot 36 percent from three and 42.2 percent from the field, however OU didn’t have much talent around him. He faced double teams every night and still went for 27.4 points and 8.2 assists per game.

To help explain Young’s average shooting percentage (especially for a guy being hailed as the next Steph Curry,) I’m going to point to a January 20 loss to Oklahoma State. The Sooners fell 83-81 in overtime and Young only shot 35.9 percent from the field. However, he tallied a career high 48 points in that game. No other Sooner scored in double digits. The four starters not named Young combined to shoot 11-of-32 from the field including 3-of-10 and 3-of-11 from Brady Manek and Christian James respectively. If it looked like Young shot too much or was a selfish teammate at times, its because he had to be.

In a way, Trae Young is sort of like Lonzo Ball with a jump shot. He has next-level court vision which helped lead to his 8.2 assists per game. Summer League showed us that he might struggle with his jumper at times, but the guy is a flat out playmaker. He’s the kind of guy that can get you 16 points on 3-of-12 shooting because of how he can beat his man off the dribble and get to the basket (and subsequently the foul line). At the very least, his playmaking should make him an alright player in the league.

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

13 hours ago, Final_quest said:

It's not so much that we have the absolute worst starter at every position, but we are probably bottom 10 at every position next year.  Dedmon or Collins on their own will not get a lot of wins.  Collins is still too young.  Dedmon will never be more than a good role player.  

So, we may not have the worst player at every position, but we also don't have an all star or true impact player anywhere.  We hope we are developing a couple impact players, but they are not ready to win games. 

 

I'm expecting 23 wins and for us to be in the bottom 3 teams in the league.  

[Gray Mule]

We didn't get to see Kevin Huerter in summer games.  We did watch our other two draft picks and sometimes they were impressive and sometimes not.  We don't know about the real health of Jeremy Lin.  We have no idea whether our free agent signings are good or not.  Vince Carter was signed to play some and lead a lot.  We added Alex Len and have no idea if he is any good or not.  He was a high draft pick and hasn't panned out but he's still young enough to snap out of it and be pretty good after all.  How about Justin Anderson?  Is he any good at all?

Will Huerter and Spellman play here or be sent to Erie?  Hawks have two players on two way contracts.  Will they stay all season in Erie?  With many injuries they will come up, but if we have few injuries, will they still come up?

We all think we know.  But, there are too many questions that can't be answered until this current roster takes the floor and plays some meaningful games.

GO ATL DREAM !!

[bleachkit]

It's really tough for young teams to win. The 2008-09 Thunder had Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka and won a grand total of...23 games.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

GM . . . I frequently use the NBA Efficiency stat ( which is a stat mainly measuring production ). to see where our Hawks players match up around the league, from a production standpoint.   I see what they are ranked, according to the position they play, to see if we have any players remotely in the top 10 in the league at their position. 

Now of course, I can't use this to rank the rookies right now.  But I can see how last year's team looked, when I rank each player by position.   Here's the criteria is use:

 

• Top 3 at their position:  Superstar/High level All-Star 
• Top 5:  Legit All-Star
• 6 - 10:  All-Star caliber
• 11 - 15:  Solid starter/6th man
• 16 - 30:  Starter
• 31 -  45:  Rotation player
• 46 -  60:  Fringe Rotation player
• Below 60:  Benchwarmer

 

PG - Schröder ( 12 ) - Delaney ( 66 ) - Taylor ( 72 )

G - Bazemore ( 19 ) - Belinelli ( 39 ) . . . although he was probably higher than that here in ATL - Dorsey ( 61 )

F - Prince ( 19 ) 

PF - Collins ( 18 ) - Ilyasova ( 35 ) . . . possibly a little higher while in ATL - Muscala ( 47 )

C - Dedmon ( 21 ) - Plumlee ( 65 )

 

This year's new additions, and their rank

G - Lin ( 20 )  . . 2016/17

C - Len ( 25 )

F - Carter ( 59 )

 

So the questions are:

 

- Can Collins, Prince, and Baze all move up to be at least top 15 in production at their position?

- Can Trae Young play well enough to at least be top 20 at his position?

- What player out of Dorsey, Bembry, Spellman, and Huerter, can step up to be decent bench players?

- Can Len be a big surprise, and play anywhere close to his top 5 lottery status?

 

As of right now, we only have 2 players this team who may make the jump to be at least top 15 at their respective position.

[HawkItus]

Put it like this.....who is the better squad?

 

Record: 26-56, Finished 5th in NBA Southeast Division

Coach: Mike Woodson (26-56)

 

11	Esteban Batista	PF	6-10	270	September 2, 1983	uy	R
1	Josh Childress	SF	6-8	210	June 20, 1983	us	1	Stanford University
00	Tony Delk	SG	6-1	189	January 28, 1974	us	9	University of Kentucky
54	John Edwards	C	7-0	275	July 31, 1981	us	1	Kent State University
16	Anthony Grundy	SG	6-3	180	April 15, 1979	us	R	North Carolina State University
3	Al Harrington	PF	6-9	230	February 17, 1980	us	7
36	Royal Ivey	PG	6-3	200	December 20, 1981	us	1	University of Texas at Austin
2	Joe Johnson	SG	6-7	240	June 29, 1981	us	4	University of Arkansas
10	Tyronn Lue	PG	6-0	175	May 3, 1977	us	7	University of Nebraska
27	Zaza Pachulia	C	6-11	270	February 10, 1984	ge	2
15	Donta Smith	SG	6-7	215	November 27, 1983	us	1	Southeastern Illinois College
5	Josh Smith	SF	6-9	225	December 5, 1985	us	1
20	Salim Stoudamire	SG	6-1	179	October 11, 1982	us	R	University of Arizona
12	John Thomas	C	6-9	265	September 8, 1975	us	4	University of Minnesota
24	Marvin Williams	P

 

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

Put it like this.....who is the better squad?

 

Record: 26-56, Finished 5th in NBA Southeast Division

Coach: Mike Woodson (26-56)

 

11	Esteban Batista	PF	6-10	270	September 2, 1983	uy	R
1	Josh Childress	SF	6-8	210	June 20, 1983	us	1	Stanford University
00	Tony Delk	SG	6-1	189	January 28, 1974	us	9	University of Kentucky
54	John Edwards	C	7-0	275	July 31, 1981	us	1	Kent State University
16	Anthony Grundy	SG	6-3	180	April 15, 1979	us	R	North Carolina State University
3	Al Harrington	PF	6-9	230	February 17, 1980	us	7
36	Royal Ivey	PG	6-3	200	December 20, 1981	us	1	University of Texas at Austin
2	Joe Johnson	SG	6-7	240	June 29, 1981	us	4	University of Arkansas
10	Tyronn Lue	PG	6-0	175	May 3, 1977	us	7	University of Nebraska
27	Zaza Pachulia	C	6-11	270	February 10, 1984	ge	2
15	Donta Smith	SG	6-7	215	November 27, 1983	us	1	Southeastern Illinois College
5	Josh Smith	SF	6-9	225	December 5, 1985	us	1
20	Salim Stoudamire	SG	6-1	179	October 11, 1982	us	R	University of Arizona
12	John Thomas	C	6-9	265	September 8, 1975	us	4	University of Minnesota
24	Marvin Williams	P

 

This current team doesn't have a proven 'Joe Johnson' alpha scorer with NBA experience.....YET!

 

[HawkItus]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

This current team doesn't have a proven 'Joe Johnson' alpha scorer with NBA experience.....YET!

 

Exactly my point.  With a JJ this team, was bad.,  Unless we get JJ prime performance from Baze this squad will be baaad.

[EazyRoc]

47 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

Put it like this.....who is the better squad?

 

Record: 26-56, Finished 5th in NBA Southeast Division

Coach: Mike Woodson (26-56)

 

11	Esteban Batista	PF	6-10	270	September 2, 1983	uy	R
1	Josh Childress	SF	6-8	210	June 20, 1983	us	1	Stanford University
00	Tony Delk	SG	6-1	189	January 28, 1974	us	9	University of Kentucky
54	John Edwards	C	7-0	275	July 31, 1981	us	1	Kent State University
16	Anthony Grundy	SG	6-3	180	April 15, 1979	us	R	North Carolina State University
3	Al Harrington	PF	6-9	230	February 17, 1980	us	7
36	Royal Ivey	PG	6-3	200	December 20, 1981	us	1	University of Texas at Austin
2	Joe Johnson	SG	6-7	240	June 29, 1981	us	4	University of Arkansas
10	Tyronn Lue	PG	6-0	175	May 3, 1977	us	7	University of Nebraska
27	Zaza Pachulia	C	6-11	270	February 10, 1984	ge	2
15	Donta Smith	SG	6-7	215	November 27, 1983	us	1	Southeastern Illinois College
5	Josh Smith	SF	6-9	225	December 5, 1985	us	1
20	Salim Stoudamire	SG	6-1	179	October 11, 1982	us	R	University of Arizona
12	John Thomas	C	6-9	265	September 8, 1975	us	4	University of Minnesota
24	Marvin Williams	P

 

Good one. Hard to say really. Looking at the top, it’s easy to say 2005 Hawks, but I’d you look at the complete roster I think it’s a wash.

[Diesel]

40 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

Exactly my point.  With a JJ this team, was bad.,  Unless we get JJ prime performance from Baze this squad will be baaad.

Not necessarily.   Collins will be pretty good.  Maybe close to allstar good on offense.   Secondly, the East is a huge cakewalk.  Back in JJ's time, the East was Hard.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, HawkItus said:

Put it like this.....who is the better squad?

 

Record: 26-56, Finished 5th in NBA Southeast Division

Coach: Mike Woodson (26-56)

 

11	Esteban Batista	PF	6-10	270	September 2, 1983	uy	R
1	Josh Childress	SF	6-8	210	June 20, 1983	us	1	Stanford University
00	Tony Delk	SG	6-1	189	January 28, 1974	us	9	University of Kentucky
54	John Edwards	C	7-0	275	July 31, 1981	us	1	Kent State University
16	Anthony Grundy	SG	6-3	180	April 15, 1979	us	R	North Carolina State University
3	Al Harrington	PF	6-9	230	February 17, 1980	us	7
36	Royal Ivey	PG	6-3	200	December 20, 1981	us	1	University of Texas at Austin
2	Joe Johnson	SG	6-7	240	June 29, 1981	us	4	University of Arkansas
10	Tyronn Lue	PG	6-0	175	May 3, 1977	us	7	University of Nebraska
27	Zaza Pachulia	C	6-11	270	February 10, 1984	ge	2
15	Donta Smith	SG	6-7	215	November 27, 1983	us	1	Southeastern Illinois College
5	Josh Smith	SF	6-9	225	December 5, 1985	us	1
20	Salim Stoudamire	SG	6-1	179	October 11, 1982	us	R	University of Arizona
12	John Thomas	C	6-9	265	September 8, 1975	us	4	University of Minnesota
24	Marvin Williams	P

 

2018-19 will be better than that 05-06 team imho. Having jj actually stagnanted the offense and made us predictable. I’m with @hazer and the 28 win mark which would beat that team by 2 games.

 

ps This team will be fun to watch even when we lose. That 2005-06 team had be depressed as hell. Although hindsight is 20/20 but I think this year we have a fun run n gun squad that loses but learns on the fly.

 

LETS GO ATL!!!

[macdaddy]

There were no real playmakers on that Woodson squad.  That's why Bibby changed everything. 

[Gray Mule]

Hawks are better - - - than some think!  Instead of losing 80-74, I expect the losses to be more 115-109.  Then, as LP has his defensive thinking take hold, they will still be coming up short, but not all the time. 

Exciting ball?  You bet!  What are your most exciting plays?  The slam dunk?  We have the potential for some of those.  How about a drive and kick out for three?  These Hawks are capable.  Or, take away the ball and streak to the basket?  And, there is that certain player who, with the score oh, so close, who stands at the free throw line and, with ice water in his veins, nails three in a row for the win!!

Hawks can't really play defense - - But they can be taught!  They do have some players who might be able to shoot.  Every off season, and this one is just like all the others, we are told that every team in the east will be vastly improved EXCEPT the Atlanta Hawks and they will be worse than last season.  Bull feathers!

Our big question:  Do we begin the season in the tank mode?  To me, this is deliberately trying not to win.  This practice needs to be outlawed.  Problem is, how do you really prove it?  When discussing how good our "leftover Hawks" are, we must remember our tank mode last season.  This had to have it's effect.

Potential does not play the games no more than being better on paper.  That being said, Hawks have the potential to be better.  They must grow, and they will.  Just how much and how fast will tell us how good we really are.

GO ATL HAWKS !!

 

[Peoriabird]

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2018/9/5/17818920/atlanta-hawks-offseason-grade-trae-young-luka-doncic-jeremy-lin-trades-nba-draft-kevin-huerter

Kevin Pelton of ESPN assessed the summer performance of every NBA team and, in short, he did not enjoy what Schlenk and company elected to do. Atlanta was given a “D-” grade and only the Charlotte Hornets (F) were graded as harshly.

The Hawks’ three biggest moves of the offseason involved point guards coming and going. When Luka Doncic slipped to Atlanta at the third pick, the Hawks opted to trade down two spots and take Oklahoma point guard Trae Young, picking up a future first-rounder from the Dallas Mavericks in the process. After an up (Las Vegas) and down (Salt Lake City) summer-league run from Young, Atlanta could regret passing on Doncic if he lives up to his statistical projections.

Atlanta used much of its cap space on adding Jeremy Lin, coming off a ruptured patella, as a veteran mentor to share time with Young. With a crowd at the point, the Hawks sent incumbent starter Dennis Schröder to the Oklahoma City Thunder as part of a deal taking back Carmelo Anthony’s contract. That trade could yield a first-round pick, but only if the Thunder make the playoffs in 2022.

At this point, it is clear that many pundits (both in Atlanta and elsewhere) did not view the Young-Doncic transaction in a positive light. Rather than litigate that swap again in this space, let’s assume that there are potential outcomes that trend positively and negatively, leaving room for all opinions.