Taurean Prince is averaging 21.8 points, 5.0 rebounds, 3.3 assists and 1 steal per game almost shooting 50/40/90 (49.2/41.9/93.3)

[Gray Mule]

Mental!  There are more than one part of being an NBA player.  Prince and Bazemore both have the problem with their thinking.  They are veterans on this team and are apparently trying too hard.  I've gotta, I've gotta, I've gotta, instead of trying to be a team player.  And, when their offensive game deserts them, they forget about defense, worrying about why they can't carry the load.

Both players need to relax.  Hero ball isn't working.  Team ball is the name of the game and they do not trust their team.  Neither would say this but actions speak louder than words.

Opinions are like noses.  Everyone has one and no two are exactly alike.  This is just my opinion on these two.  Both are better than they are showing right now.

GO ATL HAWKS !!

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

noses

Hehe ? I agree Gramps!

[EazyRoc]

You also have to take in consideration that he’s playing like this because he’s got 80-100+ mil coming to him.

[Atlantaholic]

13 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He can score way better than Carroll at his best. The issue with Prince is simply too much on his plate and he is struggling at PF

When has he ever scored way better than Carroll.?? TS% of 54% for his career while Carroll was putting up around 58-60% during his two years here. Carroll was a much better player on both ends of the floor. If Prince improves dramatically he can get there. IF.

[Atlantaholic]

21 hours ago, High5 said:

The Prince criticisms remind me a lot of the criticisms DeRozan used to receive. Obviously they have distinct differences in their games, but (talking about DeRozan's early years) ultimately they're both one-dimensional scorers who either look like future All Stars or scrubs depending on whether or not their shots are falling. I don't think we can accurately judge Prince's ability until he gets some help. Collins should relieve some of the pressure if he ever comes back. 

We are comparing him to Derozan? They literally have nothing in common. Better comparison would be Dion Glover. 

[macdaddy]

6 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

When has he ever scored way better than Carroll.?? TS% of 54% for his career while Carroll was putting up around 58-60% during his two years here. Carroll was a much better player on both ends of the floor. If Prince improves dramatically he can get there. IF.

Carroll was strictly a catch and shoot guy and got lots of open looks because Korver drew so much attention at the 3 point line.   I don't think Carroll has a 60% TS for his career. 

 

[AHF]

16 hours ago, AHawks89 said:

I don't see how that is negative. In the prediction thread, I picked Prince to score the most points for a reason. I also picked him to be an All-Star. As I mentioned, I like Prince a lot but I have seen games where he tries to force everything. I believe the majority of the nights, Prince will have good to great games. I think ball movement would help out a lot and get those turnovers down and stop making him look like a selfish player.  

You don't see how saying that him being unhappy if he sees teammates succeeding is negative?

 

* * * * 

 

As an aside, last night was the worst game of the year for Prince, so I agree this is increasingly becoming an issue.  I just don't think it is a situation where he wants to personally succeed over his teammates and would need to see more after some back forth with the coaches as far as the types of shots he is taking.

[High5]

3 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

When has he ever scored way better than Carroll.?? TS% of 54% for his career while Carroll was putting up around 58-60% during his two years here. Carroll was a much better player on both ends of the floor. If Prince improves dramatically he can get there. IF.

If TS% determined who the best scorers were then Korver would be one of the GOATs. Carroll was most allowed to take open jumpers and score on cuts to the basket. 

[High5]

4 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

We are comparing him to Derozan? They literally have nothing in common. Better comparison would be Dion Glover. 

If you actually read the post you would understand. I'm comparing the criticisms they received. Toronto fans were making the exact same posts about DeRozan when he'd have a bad shooting night early in his career. Even when he'd have good shooting nights they'd call him a black hole or talk about him giving up more than he got. 

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

We are comparing him to Derozan? They literally have nothing in common. Better comparison would be Dion Glover. 

Dion Glover?  That is cold.  Prince has a ways to go to get to DeRozan but Glover was a .487% TS% guy while Prince is a .541% TS% guy.  That is the difference between below the mendoza line and above it.  That is a really big difference.

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, High5 said:

If TS% determined who the best scorers were then Korver would be one of the GOATs. Carroll was most allowed to take open jumpers and score on cuts to the basket. 

TS% doesn't speak to whether a guy can create shots or anything like that.  It just measures efficiency on the shots they take whether they are ones they create or wide open looks.  I do agree that DMC's TS% benefited materially from him not having to create offense and just taking good looks.  

It wasn't a coincidence that he went from a .603% TS% his last season in Atlanta to signing a $$$ deal with Toronto and pressing to do more and dropping to a .490% TS% his first season north of the border.  He had a good, efficient role in Atlanta (and somewhat shot above his head even in that favorable environment) and couldn't handle a bigger offensive role in Toronto.

[Atlantaholic]

18 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Carroll was strictly a catch and shoot guy and got lots of open looks because Korver drew so much attention at the 3 point line.   I don't think Carroll has a 60% TS for his career. 

 

 

19 minutes ago, High5 said:

If TS% determined who the best scorers were then Korver would be one of the GOATs. Carroll was most allowed to take open jumpers and score on cuts to the basket. 

Yup, and that is what Prince should be, ideally. The assumed fact that Prince can be some type of go to scorer is a myth. If creating your shot leads to 5 TOs per 36 minutes and FG% in the low 40s then you should probably stop trying to create your own shot.

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

 

Yup, and that is what Prince should be, ideally. The assumed fact that Prince can be some type of go to scorer is a myth. If creating your shot leads to 5 TOs per 36 minutes and FG% in the low 40s then you should probably stop trying to create your own shot.

With the return of Collins, continued growth of Trae and additions by FA and the draft, I think him taking a more limited role than he has today will happen by default even if the coaching staff wasn't looking to do it by design.

[Atlantaholic]

15 minutes ago, AHF said:

TS% doesn't speak to whether a guy can create shots or anything like that.  It just measures efficiency on the shots they take whether they are ones they create or wide open looks.  I do agree that DMC's TS% benefited materially from him not having to create offense and just taking good looks.  

It wasn't a coincidence that he went from a .603% TS% his last season in Atlanta to signing a $$$ deal with Toronto and pressing to do more and dropping to a .490% TS% his first season north of the border.  He had a good, efficient role in Atlanta (and somewhat shot above his head even in that favorable environment) and couldn't handle a bigger offensive role in Toronto.

While I don't disagree changing systems hurt Carroll's efficiency I think a lot of it also had to do with his health. He wasn't the same player post Atlanta regardless of his role, lets not forget he came off of significant injury at 29 years old and only played 22 games his first year in Toronto. Fact is Carroll in his prime is a hands down, no doubt about it, better more valuable player than Prince. Heck, Bazemore is a singinficantly more valualbe player then Prince by a mile and he isn't as good as Carroll was in 2014.

Glover comparison is harsh but fact still is he is a lot closer to Glover level value than he is to Jimmy Butler and Derozan. Glover had a higher PER and more win shares than Prince at this stage in their respective careers. 

The thing that bothers me about Prince is how he has stated publically he wants to show the league he is a star. How about showing the league you can be a functional starting caliber player, and showing just a modicum of interest at the defensive end first?

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

With the return of Collins, continued growth of Trae and additions by FA and the draft, I think him taking a more limited role than he has today will happen by default even if the coaching staff wasn't looking to do it by design.

And will he be happy with his reduced role after local media and fans have crowned him as an up and coming star and he gets fed  27%+ usage  for a whole season or two? I'd rather Prince work on being the type of player he is going to have to be for us if/when we become a playoff caliber unit than continue to pursue "all star" numbers for a dead-last place team

[NBASupes]

I clearly think Prince has a great deal of value and hes not DeRozan or Glover. The issue is at PF, he has struggled tremendously. In the role as a self minded #1, he is not as an effective. 

 

Let's not overreact. I think he is special. I know he can play but he is out of his element as a PF and it shows. 

[NBASupes]

I won't throw him under the bus. He sucked in his last two games. He can improve and he knows he sucked in these games. He is pressing and has been pressing all season. Things will improve for him once he can slide by into his #2 option role when Collins is back. 

He can also go back to SF

[AHF]

23 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

And will he be happy with his reduced role after local media and fans have crowned him as an up and coming star and he gets fed  27%+ usage  for a whole season or two? I'd rather Prince work on being the type of player he is going to have to be for us if/when we become a playoff caliber unit than continue to pursue "all star" numbers for a dead-last place team

I think that would be a smart choice by the coaching staff as well.  Just saying I don't think he is so transcendent that it won't have to happen anyway.  

[Marvin24Williams]

Prince has been disappointing, i'm just scared he'll pick up bad habits and become your typical empty numbers guy on a bad team. I loved him in his rookie year. He needs to get back to defending at a high level and not trying to do too much offensively.

[NBASupes]

31 minutes ago, Marvin24Williams said:

Prince has been disappointing, i'm just scared he'll pick up bad habits and become your typical empty numbers guy on a bad team. I loved him in his rookie year. He needs to get back to defending at a high level and not trying to do too much offensively.

He was never that good defensively. His success was driven by his time with Al Horford who protects his teammates with the best of them.