Free Agency 2019

[pimp]

9 minutes ago, hazer said:

Who’s Horford?

A 33 year old man that's afraid of the basketball.
 

 

[Plainview1981]

54 minutes ago, hazer said:

Len/Fernando/Collins/Spellman/Plumlee

Extreme? Len was better than Dedmon 2nd half of the season, Trae/Kevin/John will be another year together better, and they just added Hunter/Reddish/Fernando. But we’re gonna win FEWER games? 

Len is a 25 MPG player.

There are almost no vets on this team and three more rookies. Reddish shot like 35% last year. How much do you really think he is going to contribute this year? That’s not a knock him. 

He is a kid basically. Even Kobe, Rashard and others that were around Cam’s age struggled when they first came into the league.

 Extremely young teams usually lose.  I don’t see how this group isn’t going to do the same.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Plainview1981

[MaceCase]

1 hour ago, GameTime said:

I'm expecting the Hawks to make an offer to one of Bell/Looney/Cousins.

I'm expecting Cook to get a 2nd shot.

[kg01]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

@kg01 wake up broh!

The Warrior got crappy ... ier..

No need, bro.  My burner accts gots it covered.  

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

No need, bro.  My burner accts gots it covered.  

Skrong  

[Plainview1981]

7 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Horford truly has no heart. Like one of the above posters said he’s always goes to a rival team. Hawks to Celts..Celts to Sixers.  

Something Horford will never be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcXT1clXc04

[Peoriabird]

Still waiting on that center

[IheartVolt]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Still waiting on that center

 

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Still waiting on that center

I'm curious...

When Schlenk publicly stated the Hawks would sit out the initial rush of FA and then nearly every Hawks site stated they would remain quiet during the first week of FA, did you just think they were all bluffing?  

 

[kg01]

24 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I'm curious...

When Schlenk publicly stated the Hawks would sit out the initial rush of FA and then nearly every Hawks site stated they would remain quiet during the first week of FA, did you just think they were all bluffing?  

 

Don't engage Peo.  He's in one of his self-loathing moods.  Ignoring reality.

[hazer]

6 hours ago, Plainview1981 said:

Len is a 25 MPG player.

There are almost no vets on this team and three more rookies. Reddish shot like 35% last year. How much do you really think he is going to contribute this year? That’s not a knock him. 

He is a kid basically. Even Kobe, Rashard and others that were around Cam’s age struggled when they first came into the league.

 Extremely young teams usually lose.  I don’t see how this group isn’t going to do the same.

Same argument some crazy-a$$ witch doctor used last year to predict 18 wins. Live and learn folks. Live. And. Learn.

[Plainview1981]

20 minutes ago, hazer said:

Same argument some crazy-a$$ witch doctor used last year to predict 18 wins. Live and learn folks. Live. And. Learn.

lol. You act like they won 50 games.

This is one of the worst defenses in NBA history last year probably. And they have added a couple of 20 year olds.

This team is inexperienced and it remains tobe seen if Young/Collins can be a winning combo given their defensive limitations. They can put up numbers, but winning? We'll see.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Plainview1981

[hazer]

10 minutes ago, Plainview1981 said:

lol. You act like they won 50 games.

This is one of the worst defenses in NBA history last year probably. And they have added a couple of 20 year olds.

This team is inexperienced and it remains tobe seen if Young/Collins can be a winning combo given their defensive limitations. They can put up numbers, but winning? We'll see.

No, I don’t. I act like some fool used your same argument to claim only 18 wins last year, and we won 61% more than that. The 3 guys who led us to being 1 second from 30 wins will be better than last year due to growth and experience. We drafted 3 rookies who can play D, 1 of them the consensus best defensive player in the draft. He also happens to be the most NBA-ready draftee who you can plug-and-play from day 1. He also happens to be better than Prince. Cam will be better than Baze. Len was better than Dedmon and will be starting. CLP will be a better coach after the learning curve of his rookie season. This team will win more games, not less.

[kg01]

7 minutes ago, hazer said:

No, I don’t. I act like some fool used your same argument to claim only 18 wins last year, and we won 61% more than that. The 3 guys who led us to being 1 second from 30 wins will be better than last year due to growth and experience. We drafted 3 rookies who can play D, 1 of them the consensus best defensive player in the draft. He also happens to be the most NBA-ready draftee who you can plug-and-play from day 1. He also happens to be better than Prince. Cam will be better than Baze. Len was better than Dedmon and will be starting. CLP will be a better coach after the learning curve of his rookie season. This team will win more games, not less.

I don't get what people would prefer us to do at this point.  Sign them freaking dregs like the Knicks did just because they have "experience"?

Even if we win fewer games this year, so what?  We have a plan.  It happens to be a multi-year plan.  May as well buckle up and try to enjoy the ride.  The finished product will be eons better than these teams that are allegedly "trying" by signing these nothing free agents.

[thecampster]

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

How is this possible with them being in the LT? @thecampster

Russell's hold is 21 million but this depends on the value of his sign and trade.  Iggy's deal is 17 million.

 

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q86

 

 

Quote

Taxpaying teams can take back up to 125% of their outgoing salaries, plus $100,000, no matter how much salary the team is sending away. For example, a taxpaying team trading away $10 million in salaries can acquire one or more replacement players making up to $12.6 million.

Taxpaying Teams

Outgoing salary	Maximum incoming salary
Any	125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000

If a taxpaying team trades away a $10 million player, they can take back one player making $12.6 million or less, two $6 million players, three $4 million players, etc. However, there must be enough roster spots for the incoming players. A team with a full roster of 15 players cannot trade one player for two players without first waiving a player on its roster (or sending him away in another trade). This team could not acquire two players and simultaneously waive one of the incoming players.

Teams can send out more than one player in the same simultaneous trade, "aggregating" their salaries in order to acquire a replacement player with a higher salary than can be acquired by trading any outgoing player alone. For example, since the most a taxpaying team can receive for a $10 million player is $12.6 million, it cannot trade its $10 million player for another team's $15 million player. However, it can aggregate the salary of its $10 million player with that of another player making $2 million. With the combined $12 million in outgoing salaries the team can receive up to $15.1 million in return, which lets them trade for the $15 million player. An aggregated trade must be simultaneous -- aggregated non-simultaneous trades are not allowed. Also, if a team used an exception to acquire a player (which means it acquired the player by any means other than using cap room), it cannot include that player in an aggregated trade for two months.⁶

Avoiding aggregation (where possible) can be advantageous to a non-taxpaying team. Suppose the team wants to trade two players who make $10 million each. By aggregating the team can take back 125% plus $100,000 of the aggregated $20 million (see the chart above), or $25.1 million. But if the team trades the players individually -- without aggregation -- it can take back $15 million for each player, for a total of $30 million. The other advantage to avoiding aggregation is that trades of individual players can be non-simultaneous, possibly gaining the team a trade exception (see question number 87).

As described in question number 84, a team below the cap may disregard salaries when making trades, as long as the team finishes no more than $100,000 above the cap as the result of a trade. However, a team below the cap can choose to use the trade rules for teams above the cap if it works to the team's advantage. For example, if a team is $1 million below the cap, then by using the trade rules for teams below the cap it can trade an $8 million player for a player making up to $9.1 million. By using the rules in place for teams above the cap, the team could trade the $8 million player for a player making up to $13 million.

 

 

 

Now this  http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q92

 

 

 

The sign-and-trade rule allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes. Under this rule the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract stipulating that the contract is null and void if the trade to the specific team is not completed within 48 hours. A sign-and-trade is treated like a single, atomic transaction, and not two separate transactions between which one party can change its mind -- if the trade is not completed, then the signing is invalidated.

To qualify for a sign-and-trade, all of the following must be true:

• The player must re-sign with his prior team -- a team cannot include another team's free agent in a sign-and-trade.
• The player must finish the preceding season with that team (deals are no longer allowed that sign-and-trade players who are out of the league, such as the sign-and-trade that sent Keith Van Horn from Dallas to New Jersey as part of the Jason Kidd trade in 2008).
• The player cannot be a restricted free agent who has signed an offer sheet with another team (see question number 42).
• The team receiving the player cannot be above the "Apron" (see question number 20) at the conclusion of the trade^{1, 2}. A team above the Apron can receive a player in a sign-and-trade if the trade reduces the team's payroll and the team finishes the trade below the Apron.
• The team cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade if they have used the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception (see question number 25) that season.¹
• The trade must be completed prior to the first game of the regular season (sign-and-trades are not allowed once the season begins).
• The player cannot be signed using the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, or any exception that cannot be used to offer a three-year contract (see question number 25).

 

and this

If a team acquires a player in a sign-and-trade, then the Apron effectively becomes a hard cap for the remainder of that season. See question number 

20 for details.

 

 

So I'm going to assume here the issue you are having is thinking the apron rule applied to both teams. The salaries (assuming Russell resigns near his cap) are within the 125% rule due not push either team into the apron and its a matter of order (something Hawksfanatic and I had a spirited family discussion about some 6 years ago) but once the offseason begins, technically the only money that matters is the guarantees because in a theoretical bubble you can renounce all of your free agent cap holds and each hold for a roster space is eaten up with each player you add. Its 4 dimensional math but it isn't crazy if you look at it like building a Lego Death Star. You only count the pieces that go into the final product, not all the pieces in the toy chest...however, the order you assemble those pieces matters.

 

So here is the basic math.  The second KD said he was signing in Brooklyn they renounce his rights. Golden State is still not signing anyone because these deals aren't perfect right away. The 125% rule only applies if the deal (before other deals) pushes them to the apron. So they peck away at renouncing their own free agent cap holds until the deal lands below the apron...getting rid of the most damaging, least important first and working their way toward Cousins.  Now here is where the math gets tricky. If the new deal pushed them over the cap, then the new deal would look like this. Iggy is owed 17.185 million this year. The new deal could only be for that number +$5 million. But renouncing everyone pushing GS's number down to $95 million in owed salaries, meaning they could acquire up to $14 million in new salary before hitting the actual salary cap of 109 million. The difference between Russell's new contract starting at $27 million and Iggy's contract is $10 million putting them a theoretical $4 million under the salary cap still. This means no rules apply in the trade except standard sign and trade. From Brooklyn's angle, renouncing or trading away players they are at only $42 million in salary. All that matters to them is the order in which they add players.  That's it.  

 

 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2019 by thecampster

[thecampster]

9 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

SnT for both, but I think that hard caps GSW which means they have to trade somebody....Livingston/Iggy?

I detailed it below...but now need to dive into how we quote /quote now so it doesn't look so awful.

[frosgrim]

Did anyone else notice that Bell might a GS cap casualty? I would imagine Schlenk-Pierce would pounce on that in a heartbeat, and that fixes a lot of the C/PF issues on the team, plus a ton of toughness to the team. 

[kg01]

9 minutes ago, frosgrim said:

Did anyone else notice that Bell might a GS cap casualty? I would imagine Schlenk-Pierce would pounce on that in a heartbeat, and that fixes a lot of the C/PF issues on the team, plus a ton of toughness to the team. 

No, he doesn't.  Bell was awful when surrounded by 3-4 HOFers.  What hope would he have here?

Just yank somebody from a gleague or foreign roster and we'll be fine.

Edited July 1, 2019 by kg01

[NBASupes]

7 hours ago, Plainview1981 said:

Len is a 25 MPG player.

There are almost no vets on this team and three more rookies. Reddish shot like 35% last year. How much do you really think he is going to contribute this year? That’s not a knock him. 

He is a kid basically. Even Kobe, Rashard and others that were around Cam’s age struggled when they first came into the league.

 Extremely young teams usually lose.  I don’t see how this group isn’t going to do the same.

Cam is a beast. He was much more polished on tape than his stats say. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself saying this 

 

As far as Len, I agree but Spellman looked like an excellent depth player before the injury and he got fat. I'll give him another chance

Edited July 1, 2019 by NBASupes

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

No, he doesn't.  Bell was awful when surrounded by 3-4 HOFers.  What hope would he have here?

Just yank somebody from a gleague or foreign roster and we'll be fine.

We should be tired of all of the horrible left overs right?  Don't we deserve better?  I guess if that is what we are use to, we'll never know the difference.