Hawks trade Plumlee, Hill. for Parsons

[sturt]

51 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Let me try explaining this again.  The only benefit in cutting someone is in saving salary and creating a roster spot....if he A) mangled a knee and B) isn't able to play this year, then there is no benefit to cutting. He is placed on unable to perform and we can fill his roster spot, since no one will sign him and it would be NBASupes taking another avatar bet level stupid to stretch him at that point, there is no money savings to waive him. He just rehabs, stays away from the general team and gets high fives from a personal trainer.

Um.

Being out 6-8 weeks is not "isn't able to play this year."

Right?

Let me go back and look... maybe I didn't say what I thought I said....

 

 

 

51 minutes ago, thecampster said:

@AHF.... so, he mangles a knee in November and is out for 6-8 weeks

 

 

... nope.

That's what I said.

 

"Let me try explaining this again" then.

I believe Schlenk would cut Parsons at that point that it seems his roster slot could be better filled by someone to develop for the future. And with his injury history, I surmise that would be anytime it would arise that he's out for 10 games or more.

[AHF]

3 hours ago, sturt said:

@AHF.... so, he mangles a knee in November and is out for 6-8 weeks... but you're saying Schlenk won't cut him?

Where's that betting parlor thingee?

I've gotta get in on this one.

 

If you release him, you can’t do a big trade.  Why would we do that?

[AHF]

17 hours ago, sturt said:

 

I'll go on record that if Parsons misses 10 consecutive games or is projected to be gone 10 games at any stage of the season, he'll be let go.

So the proposed bet is that if, before the trade deadline, Parsons misses 10 consecutive games or suffers an injury with an announced recovery period that could cover 10 games (like out 2-3 weeks and we have 14 games the next 3 weeks) then you win the bet if he is cut without a buyout that reduces what we owe before the trade deadline.  If he isn’t cut before the trade deadline in that circumstance, I win.  

It is a push if: (1) No qualifying injury or 10 consecutive missed games  happens; (2) he suffers an injury which is clearly season or career ending; or (3) he takes a buyout that reduces what we owe.

Winner picks the other person’s signature for a month.

Good?  @sturt

[sturt]

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

If you release him, you can’t do a big trade.  Why would we do that?

Um.

When would any team ever trade... ie, giving up the required assets under the CBA... for a $25m player with a long history of injury who is, once again, significantly injured?

Where is that team? Not this universe.

And why would we release a guy we're not going to be keeping anyhow after the season, and whose only usefulness to us is to contribute to winning games?

Seriously?

Have we not been in player development mode for years now?

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, sturt said:

Um.

When would any team ever trade for a $25m player with a long history of injury who is, once again, significantly injured?

Where is that team? Not this universe.

We did just that (maybe even a higher  % of cap) with Terrell Brandon.  The other team does it either to unload a headache, to save money or to get other assets.  Answer me this.  You recognize that teams trade for players and cut them every year, right?  What is the difference between trading for a healthy guy and cutting him or trading for a guy who is injured and cutting him?  We just traded for Melo and cut him.  What difference would it have made to us whether he was healthy or injured?

[sturt]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

So the proposed bet is that if, before the trade deadline, Parsons misses 10 consecutive games or suffers an injury with an announced recovery period that could cover 10 games (like out 2-3 weeks and we have 14 games the next 3 weeks) then you win the bet if he is cut without a buyout that reduces what we owe before the trade deadline.  If he isn’t cut before the trade deadline in that circumstance, I win.  No qualifying injury or 10 consecutive missed games  or he takes a buyout that reduces what we owe = a push.

Winner picks the other person’s signature for a month.

Good?  @sturt

I have great moral conflict....

This is like...

 

[AHF]

So we on for that?

[sturt]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

We did just that (maybe even a higher  % of cap) with Terrell Brandon.  The other team does it either to unload a headache, to save money or to get other assets.  Answer me this.  You recognize that teams trade for players and cut them every year, right?  What is the difference between trading for a healthy guy and cutting him or trading for a guy who is injured and cutting him?  We just traded for Melo and cut him.  What difference would it have made to us whether he was healthy or injured?

 

 

Go back and look. I did. Sometimes my memory fails me, so I did.

That stuff happens in the off-season, if/when it happens at all.

It doesn't happen midseason.

And there's a reason for that, if you think about it. The marketplace during the season is so much more limited, whereas between seasons there's some fluidity. The capacity to make deals that require $25m of cap space is almost always nil, because every team has that minimum salary number they have to achieve in the first place. So, you have to find a team, then, that not only can send back to you something, but is for some reason motivated  to send back to you something. It can happen for smaller contracts. It almost never happens for gargantuan contracts.

 

I stand by what I said.

[sturt]

15 minutes ago, AHF said:

So we on for that?

First, I need assurance that you are, indeed, a fully-conscious, sober-minded person of age 18 or older.... this is not some trick to lure me into something where I'll be on the other end of a lawsuit for taking advantage of someone who doesn't have the capacity to think clearly.

 

If received, then I guess you leave me no choice but to accept.

 

 

[thecampster]

45 minutes ago, sturt said:

Um.

When would any team ever trade... ie, giving up the required assets under the CBA... for a $25m player with a long history of injury who is, once again, significantly injured?

Where is that team? Not this universe.

And why would we release a guy we're not going to be keeping anyhow after the season, and whose only usefulness to us is to contribute to winning games?

Seriously?

Have we not been in player development mode for years now?

A team looking.to drop salary at the end of the year.

Edited July 4, 2019 by thecampster

[MaceCase]

Another consideration is If Parsons mangles his knee, particularly his chronically injured knee, even if the “probable” time table is ~8 weeks for any other player, I’d suspect management would milk that...particularly with diagnoses from some team friendly physicians...which would equal much greater cash savings through insurance payouts than a buyout. 

[sturt]

11 minutes ago, thecampster said:

A team looking.to drop salary at the end of the year.

 

Rare. If ever. $25m is a glacier, not just a chunk, of change.

I want my roster slot, and I bet (literally) Schlenk does, too.

Will use it to keep developing an Poythress or someone else who might be someone I decide I want to keep for next season.

 

[thecampster]

Okay a quick lesson in LT.  Your LT payment is based on your salary numbers based on contract totals at the end of the year, not on actual money spent on salary.  So let's pretend it is February and a team has figured out they aren't going to make the playoffs but they are scheduled to be above the apron.  They have one player on the roster making $31 million a year. At the trade deadline they offer that better player but who no longer fits their plans due to an up and coming youngster and that player is signed for this year and 2 more years.  Its a good player but not in their plans and not worth 31 million / year. Maybe a $20 million / year worth player.  That team would see a few months of Parson's contract as a way to get under the LT now and a way to get under the cap for 2 more years to come. So saving the 6 million in trading 1 for 1 or 1 for 2 they are capable of saving even more money now and much more later. These deals happen every year...I really don't understand the problem in seeing it.

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Okay a quick lesson in LT.  Your LT payment is based on your salary numbers based on contract totals at the end of the year, not on actual money spent on salary.  So let's pretend it is February and a team has figured out they aren't going to make the playoffs but they are scheduled to be above the apron.  They have one player on the roster making $31 million a year. At the trade deadline they offer that better player but who no longer fits their plans due to an up and coming youngster and that player is signed for this year and 2 more years.  Its a good player but not in their plans and not worth 31 million / year. Maybe a $20 million / year worth player.  That team would see a few months of Parson's contract as a way to get under the LT now and a way to get under the cap for 2 more years to come. So saving the 6 million in trading 1 for 1 or 1 for 2 they are capable of saving even more money now and much more later. These deals happen every year...I really don't understand the problem in seeing it.

And if the team is a repeat tax payer it may be a multiple of that $6M savings.

[thecampster]

The same rules apply to the minimum team salary and the cap.  It isn't what you are at in November, its what you are at when the league computes the numbers after the playoffs based on the value of your salaries, not based on actual pay dished out.  Teams use this all the time to reach the team minimum, get back under the cap or to avoid the LT.    See here: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/  Basically, the only rule that needs to apply is the salaries need to be within 125% + 100,000.  So between $19,982,008.80‬ and $31,478,138.75‬

 

RANK	TEAM	SIGNED	AVG AGE	ACTIVE CAP	DEAD CAP	TOTAL CAP	LUX TAX SPACE	CAP SPACE*
1	Miami Heat	13	26.8	$147,098,365	$350,087	$151,088,652	$-14,821,452	$-41,948,652
2	Oklahoma City Thunder	12	25.9	$147,669,220	$999,200	$150,953,220	$-16,041,420	$-41,813,220
3	Dallas Mavericks	13	27.4	$108,178,108	$708,426	$145,774,556	$23,740,466	$-36,634,556
4	Portland Trail Blazers	13	25.3	$140,414,372	$5,091,109	$145,505,481	$-12,878,481	$-36,365,481
5	Cleveland Cavaliers	14	25.5	$145,387,442	-	$145,387,442	$-12,760,442	$-36,247,442
6	Golden State Warriors	11	26.6	$140,591,339	-	$142,556,099	$-7,964,339*	$-33,416,099
7	Phoenix Suns	12	25.7	$101,984,123	-	$136,305,731	$30,642,877	$-27,165,731
8	Detroit Pistons	14	26.1	$127,126,411	$5,331,729	$135,743,260	$168,860*	$-26,603,260
9	Orlando Magic	13	25.9	$130,402,701	$333,333	$133,857,114	$1,890,966*	$-24,717,114
10	Houston Rockets	16	26.1	$131,452,320	$122,741	$131,575,061	$1,051,939	$-22,435,061
11	Milwaukee Bucks	13	28.1	$125,562,865	$4,872,604	$130,435,469	$2,191,531	$-21,295,469
12	Memphis Grizzlies	16	25.7	$126,627,889	$459,414	$129,566,143	$5,539,697	$-20,426,143
13	Sacramento Kings	14	25.7	$104,751,912	$2,133,542	$125,890,504	$25,741,546	$-16,750,504
14	San Antonio Spurs	15	26.5	$120,712,317	$5,074,856	$125,787,173	$6,839,827	$-16,647,173
15	Washington Wizards	15	26.2	$123,224,756	-	$123,224,756	$9,402,244	$-14,084,756
16	Brooklyn Nets	12	26.7	$117,109,070	$5,474,787	$122,583,857	$10,043,143	$-13,443,857
17	Minnesota Timberwolves	12	25.4	$115,750,082	$685,340	$122,249,062	$16,191,578*	$-13,109,062
18	Denver Nuggets	12	25.1	$121,395,984	-	$121,395,984	$11,233,094	$-12,255,984
19	Philadelphia 76ers	13	26.0	$120,808,046	-	$120,808,046	$11,818,954	$-11,668,046
20	Los Angeles Lakers	5	29.2	$69,745,605	$5,000,000	$120,434,118	$57,881,395	$-11,294,118
21	Charlotte Hornets	12	25.3	$119,816,830	-	$119,816,830	$12,810,170*	$-10,676,830
22	New Orleans Pelicans	15	25.8	$111,845,631	-	$116,707,671	$20,608,580	$-7,567,671
23	Boston Celtics	12	24.7	$110,477,983	$92,857	$116,409,080	$22,056,160*	$-7,269,080
24	Utah Jazz	12	27.1	$112,957,006	-	$112,957,006	$19,669,994	$-3,817,006
25	Toronto Raptors	9	27.4	$111,311,107	$1,000,000	$112,311,107	$20,315,893	$-3,171,107
26	Chicago Bulls	15	24.5	$112,175,266	-	$112,175,266	$20,451,734*	$-3,035,266
27	New York Knicks	13	24.3	$99,002,603	$6,431,667	$108,696,598	$27,192,730	$443,402
28	Indiana Pacers	13	25.0	$102,872,015	$2,245,400	$107,934,175	$27,509,585*	$1,205,825
29	Los Angeles Clippers	11	26.1	$77,358,992	-	$107,926,816	$55,268,008	$1,213,184
30	Atlanta Hawks	11	24.3	$88,158,107	-	$107,415,181	$44,468,893	$1,724,819

 

[thecampster]

 

So there are your candidates (minus Dallas unless they resign their own).  So Miami, OKC, Portland, Cleveland and Golden State. There are your potential suitors for 3 months of Parsons sitting on the end of their bench but sending us someone of value especially if things go like they are looking.

 

Same song, different chorus...if for some crazy reason Parsons plays even close to 2013-14 form, then he'll be a player people would want at the deadline to complete their roster for a playoff push because he's only a 3 month rental and playing well.

1	Miami Heat	13	26.8	$147,098,365	$350,087	$151,088,652	$-14,821,452	$-41,948,652
2	Oklahoma City Thunder	12	25.9	$147,669,220	$999,200	$150,953,220	$-16,041,420	$-41,813,220
3	Dallas Mavericks	13	27.4	$108,178,108	$708,426	$145,774,556	$23,740,466	$-36,634,556
4	Portland Trail Blazers	13	25.3	$140,414,372	$5,091,109	$145,505,481	$-12,878,481	$-36,365,481
5	Cleveland Cavaliers	14	25.5	$145,387,442	-	$145,387,442	$-12,760,442	$-36,247,442
6	Golden State Warriors	11	26.6	$140,591,339	-	$142,556,099	$-7,964,339*	$-33,416,099

[thecampster]

Of course there will always be teams willing to be a third wheel in these deals to get an asset so the salaries don't even have to be exact.

[sturt]

I appreciate the "lessons," though please forgive me that I already understand all of that fairly well.

The point remains, if not further established by virtue of what you've just published...

(1) In February, it's a very limited market that is even going to be possibly interested in a deal....

(2) In February, the need for a $25m player contract in such a deal is very limited... by the time the off-season is finished, typically, most teams have put themselves in a position that contracts at much lower amounts are going to get them under the tax line.

(3) It's not just theoretical, but historical that teams rarely, if ever, consummate such a deal in February.

 

I'm bored now. Can we move on?

[kerrypack]

dunno if parsons is still hurt.  he played some later in the year, but didn't really put up great numbers when he did play.

[thecampster]

We'll see. There is no problem giving him burn in the preseason to see if he can get back any of his pre-injury form. My vote is patience. We weren't going to play Plumlee/Hill anyway.