Trae Young - The Man, The Viper, and The Prosecution aka The MVP aka Ice Trae

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

Um.....isn't that what Dyson is?

Proven? No

Hopeful? Sure

Look at the 'help' the number ones on these teams have.....then do the Hawks.

Where would we rank among all 30 teams?

 

[RedDawg#8]

52 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Proven? No

Hopeful? Sure

Look at the 'help' the number ones on these teams have.....then do the Hawks.

Where would we rank among all 30 teams?

 

It’s not even close, man. Front office has to do better by Trae.

 

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Proven? No

Hopeful? Sure

Look at the 'help' the number ones on these teams have.....then do the Hawks.

Where would we rank among all 30 teams?

 

#2 is a joke. Gimme a break. Kyrie and Klay could disappear as early as game 1.

[REHawksFan]

17 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Wish we had someone on defense who gave us some franchise popping nimbers.

The Yang on Defense to the Ying on Offense.

 

10 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Proven? No

Hopeful? Sure

Look at the 'help' the number ones on these teams have.....then do the Hawks.

Where would we rank among all 30 teams?

 

Hold up..  Maybe I'm missing it, but I thought your original ask was for a defensive Yang to Trae's offensive Ying?  By all accounts, Dyson is ELITE on defense while we know Trae is ELITE on offense.  Pair the two together and we get the Ying/Yang you are looking for, no? 

That's what I thought I was responding to.  Where in your original post that I responded to did I miss your reference to a BIG 3?   We don't have a Big 3 currently.  We have Trae, Jalen, and then some combo of Dyson and Zacc with the future potential.  

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

 

Hold up..  Maybe I'm missing it, but I thought your original ask was for a defensive Yang to Trae's offensive Ying?  By all accounts, Dyson is ELITE on defense while we know Trae is ELITE on offense.  Pair the two together and we get the Ying/Yang you are looking for, no? 

That's what I thought I was responding to.  Where in your original post that I responded to did I miss your reference to a BIG 3?   We don't have a Big 3 currently.  We have Trae, Jalen, and then some combo of Dyson and Zacc with the future potential.  

Let's see how Dyson does in a larger role this season defensively.  I have high confidence he will be a huge improvement for us but he was a role player in NO which doesn't really reflect the central role that Trae plays for the Atlanta offense.  Trae is a generational player in a lot of ways as far as an offensive engine.  Dyson wasn't important enough to NO's defense to even play in the playoffs.  He just didn't have a central role like that.  It would be great to see him successfully become the defensive anchor of this team in a way that Trae is for us offensively but I don't think he has any track record of that kind of role or performance to date.

[kg01]

15 hours ago, Wretch said:

Decent stats, BUT....

  Reveal hidden contents

HE GOT

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

D-U-N-K-S

 

This post had chills ... spills ... thrills.

Don't let nobody tell you you've lost a step, wr.  This is MJ in his prime caliber postin'. 

[REHawksFan]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Dyson wasn't important enough to NO's defense to even play in the playoffs. 

I don't have time to look it up, but I've always thought he didn't play because of his limitations offensively compared to Jones and Murphy.  He's arguably a better defender than both, but his offense is very much TBD.  He's shown flashes and whatnot but he hasn't proven anything at that end.  

The expectation is that Trae (along with natural growth of a young player) will unlock DD's offensive game while DD will protect Trae defensively.  NOP didn't have anyone offensively that was going to protect or help DD on that end.  Trae will, imo.  

But back to Jay's point, I thought she was asking for an elite defender to pair nicely with Trae's elite offense.  So that was the reason for my response.  I'm not suggesting that DD is an elite 2 way player.  That's absurd.  But he does appear to be an elite defensive player.  

[AHF]

54 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I don't have time to look it up, but I've always thought he didn't play because of his limitations offensively compared to Jones and Murphy.  He's arguably a better defender than both, but his offense is very much TBD.  He's shown flashes and whatnot but he hasn't proven anything at that end.  

The expectation is that Trae (along with natural growth of a young player) will unlock DD's offensive game while DD will protect Trae defensively.  NOP didn't have anyone offensively that was going to protect or help DD on that end.  Trae will, imo.  

But back to Jay's point, I thought she was asking for an elite defender to pair nicely with Trae's elite offense.  So that was the reason for my response.  I'm not suggesting that DD is an elite 2 way player.  That's absurd.  But he does appear to be an elite defensive player.  

There is no world in which the Hawks simply bench Trae for a playoff series because the offense revolves around him - that is in spite of his limitations on defense.  Was Dyson a similar player in terms of defensive impact in NO?  I don't think so.  Dyson was a good role player in NO.  The defense didn't revolve around him.   They didn't lose sleep because the defense would fall apart without him.  

If you consider Trae to be the QB of the offense where it falls apart without him and conversely where he really transforms what can be done offensively, I think Jay wants to see a defensive player with similar impact on that side of the ball to what Trae brings offensively.  Someone from the Hawks' history in that camp would be Dikembe Mutombo.  A player good enough to build your defense around.  A player you would never bench in the playoffs because their impact on defense is too profound to go without them.  Think Draymond Green for GS for example.  His offense has oftentimes been a complete afterthought for GS but he was so important to their defense that they would not even consider benching him for a series.  

Dyson's defense hasn't been impactful enough for him to seize a central role on a team yet in his career.  If he can do that in Atlanta, he can become the Ying to Trae's Yang.  But being Thybulle 2.0 would not be close to what she is asking for, imo.  Thybulle is a very nice rotation player and sits on a lot of the same "best of" lists that we've seen Dyson listed on but firmly believe Thybulle will never be on D what Trae is on offense and that it really isn't close.  So whether Dyson makes that leap is TBD.  The good news is that with his length and skills, he should be a significant upgrade to our rotation even if he never becomes that central figure to a defense that Trae is to our offense.

[RedDawg#8]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

There is no world in which the Hawks simply bench Trae for a playoff series because the offense revolves around him - that is in spite of his limitations on defense.  Was Dyson a similar player in terms of defensive impact in NO?  I don't think so.  Dyson was a good role player in NO.  The defense didn't revolve around him.   They didn't lose sleep because the defense would fall apart without him.  

If you consider Trae to be the QB of the offense where it falls apart without him and conversely where he really transforms what can be done offensively, I think Jay wants to see a defensive player with similar impact on that side of the ball to what Trae brings offensively.  Someone from the Hawks' history in that camp would be Dikembe Mutombo.  A player good enough to build your defense around.  A player you would never bench in the playoffs because their impact on defense is too profound to go without them.  Think Draymond Green for GS for example.  His offense has oftentimes been a complete afterthought for GS but he was so important to their defense that they would not even consider benching him for a series.  

Dyson's defense hasn't been impactful enough for him to seize a central role on a team yet in his career.  If he can do that in Atlanta, he can become the Ying to Trae's Yang.  But being Thybulle 2.0 would not be close to what she is asking for, imo.  Thybulle is a very nice rotation player and sits on a lot of the same "best of" lists that we've seen Dyson listed on but firmly believe Thybulle will never be on D what Trae is on offense and that it really isn't close.  So whether Dyson makes that leap is TBD.  The good news is that with his length and skills, he should be a significant upgrade to our rotation even if he never becomes that central figure to a defense that Trae is to our offense.

I guess what you’re saying is a Clint Capela 2021 type? His defensive impact was so big that it was felt even more when he would sit.

With Dyson, he was on a team with multiple elite defenders that didn’t necessarily need another specialist, especially when spacing was a big issue for them. They weren’t hurting for defense the way we hurt for defense, or the way we hurt for offense without Trae. If Trae hypothetically was drafted to a team with (3) or (4) elite offensive engines, they wouldn’t rely on him as much either. His lack of defense would have him riding the bench for long stretches too. I think you have to factor in those circumstances. Dyson could have had a bigger role with a team like Golden State, for example. 

It reminds me of how vital DMC became to our defense after being just a role player with limited minutes for his career. Dyson has a bigger opportunity with the Hawks to make an impact regardless of what we have seen so far in his young career.

You may not like this example, but look at how he was used in the Olympics on a team that needed his defense on the court and could sustain his lack of offense better next to Mills/Giddy. He was a game changer for them. That’s a much better comparison than just using the Pels.

Trae’s presence not only creates a bigger need for Dyson’s skillset, but also provides better cover for his weakness, which makes him even more playable on our roster than in Nola. It may not be to someone’s standard of ying and yang, but they offer a huge compliment to one another.

[benhillboy]

I don’t put much stock into Dyson’s playing time with the Pels.  That roster fit is kinda wonky and the jury is still out on Willie.  With Zion out and Alvarado shooting like crap he couldn’t have hurt much in the playoffs.  Sure he has offensive limitations but he doesn’t seem to do anything that actively hurts the team in the short term.  Long term, yeah you do want him to cash in open threes and finish with a bit more explosion per his size.  We’ve seen Dre’s slashing improve incrementally.  Still not ideal but better.

Edited 5 hours ago by benhillboy

[JayBirdHawk]

7 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

 

Hold up..  Maybe I'm missing it, but I thought your original ask was for a defensive Yang to Trae's offensive Ying?  By all accounts, Dyson is ELITE on defense while we know Trae is ELITE on offense.  Pair the two together and we get the Ying/Yang you are looking for, no? 

That's what I thought I was responding to.  Where in your original post that I responded to did I miss your reference to a BIG 3?   We don't have a Big 3 currently.  We have Trae, Jalen, and then some combo of Dyson and Zacc with the future potential.  

I said REAL help first (in the form of skill, more polished, experienced players, the kind in those Big 3 lineups), then I added second - a defensive yang to Trae's offensive Ying. We hope that Dyce can translate as a regular starter...still TBD.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

Someone from the Hawks' history in that camp would be Dikembe Mutombo.  A player good enough to build your defense around.  A player you would never bench in the playoffs because their impact on defense is too profound to go without them.  Think Draymond Green for GS for example.  His offense has oftentimes been a complete afterthought for GS but he was so important to their defense that they would not even consider benching him for a series.  

 

1 hour ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I guess what you’re saying is a Clint Capela 2021 type? His defensive impact was so big that it was felt even more when he would sit.

It reminds me of how vital DMC became to our defense after being just a role player with limited minutes for his career.

Good examples. I was thinking Bruce Bowen with the Spurs: limited offensively, but money from the corner 3, was plugged in as a starter because of his defense and connectivity and despite his overall meh offense. Never benched because his defensive impact was that great.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I guess what you’re saying is a Clint Capela 2021 type? His defensive impact was so big that it was felt even more when he would sit.

With Dyson, he was on a team with multiple elite defenders that didn’t necessarily need another specialist, especially when spacing was a big issue for them. They weren’t hurting for defense the way we hurt for defense, or the way we hurt for offense without Trae. If Trae hypothetically was drafted to a team with (3) or (4) elite offensive engines, they wouldn’t rely on him as much either. His lack of defense would have him riding the bench for long stretches too. I think you have to factor in those circumstances. Dyson could have had a bigger role with a team like Golden State, for example. 

It reminds me of how vital DMC became to our defense after being just a role player with limited minutes for his career. Dyson has a bigger opportunity with the Hawks to make an impact regardless of what we have seen so far in his young career.

You may not like this example, but look at how he was used in the Olympics on a team that needed his defense on the court and could sustain his lack of offense better next to Mills/Giddy. He was a game changer for them. That’s a much better comparison than just using the Pels.

Trae’s presence not only creates a bigger need for Dyson’s skillset, but also provides better cover for his weakness, which makes him even more playable on our roster than in Nola. It may not be to someone’s standard of ying and yang, but they offer a huge compliment to one another.

So now we are looking at the roles players had at the Olympics and taking that as gospel for the NBA?  Are we going to pretend that Olympic play is a great indicator of NBA impact and another former Hawk (Patty Mills) who played next to Dyson can be a team’s lead scorer since he often played that role and was the best player on the floor in some games for Australia?  Come on.

This is exactly my point.  Dyson was a minor role player in NO.  Now he has a chance to be something much, much bigger in Atlanta.  I hope he does exactly that.  I’m excited to see him here and see good things for many of the exact same reasons you mention.  But let’s take it as it comes and not pretend it is something he has ever done before or that we can bank on him delivering all-nba level impact on the defensive end of the floor next year.  I’d like to think he has that potential but TBD.

[RedDawg#8]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

So now we are looking at the roles players had at the Olympics and taking that as gospel for the NBA?  Are we going to pretend that Olympic play is a great indicator of NBA impact and another former Hawk (Patty Mills) who played next to Dyson can be a team’s lead scorer since he often played that role and was the best player on the floor in some games for Australia?  Come on.

This is exactly my point.  Dyson was a minor role player in NO.  Now he has a chance to be something much, much bigger in Atlanta.  I hope he does exactly that.  I’m excited to see him here and see good things for many of the exact same reasons you mention.  But let’s take it as it comes and not pretend it is something he has ever done before or that we can bank on him delivering all-nba level impact on the defensive end of the floor next year.  I’d like to think he has that potential but TBD.

I don’t want no smoke, AHF;

I concede to your point lol

[ATLHawks3]

19 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Proven? No

Hopeful? Sure

Look at the 'help' the number ones on these teams have.....then do the Hawks.

Where would we rank among all 30 teams?

 

If healthy, it should be:

1. Boston

2. Philly

3. Minnesota

4. Dallas

5. Milwaukee

[Gray Mule]

True or false?  To be determined.

When DD joined the Hawks, we were told, "When he became a Hawk, he automatically became the best defensive player on the roster." 

We watched him this summer in the Olympics and watched him score.  We now know that it's not impossible for him to score.  Will at least some of this skill transfer to the NBA?  Time will tell.

Just some of the many questions about our new team!!