Official Game Thread: Hawks at Knicks

[REHawksFan]

6 hours ago, Vol4ever said:

I'd like to get a explanation from the LP supporters tonight.  Do you believe now?  

 

Also, please don't think people not responding to the village idiot and his quippy gifs means anyone agrees with him. He's just not worth responding to. 

Hawks have a roster problem. Not a coaching problem. And I say that as someone that has also questioned LP and certainly don't think he's an elite coach or anything like that.

I just happen to believe firmly that there isnt a coach in this league that would be doing much better with this roster. The Hawks literally have 1 nba starter on their roster right now. 

[bleachkit]

7 hours ago, High5 said:

Fans like that are such trash.

What an obnoxious thing to say by that fan. Yea we suck, but enough tears for Trae, give me a break. Once upon a time the Thunder won 23 games with Durant and Westbrook.

Edited December 18, 2019 by bleachkit

[NBASupes]

No one here wants to admit it but Trae is also the problem. A big one I should add. Shit on Cam, shit on Bruno, shit on both DeAndre's and shit on Kevin, Trae improvement has came to the decline of the effectiveness of those around him and while it's true, we are a mess without him, we aren't much with him. His defense is trash, he holds possession too long, he doesn't understand the flow of the offense and he goes for home run plays all of the time and we wonder why those around him can't play effectively.

Trae Young is also the problem and until he changes his mindset to a winning position, he is just another Marbury to me.

Edited December 18, 2019 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

Now, the problem isn't him still being in the game at these times, the problem is him still dominating the ball, and not allowing his teammates to handle or touch it, and coming down and jacking up shots or passing directly leading to an assist, playing the exact same way he does all throughout the game. These are the times when he should be taking a backseat, and letting those around him develop their skillsets/games and have valuable reps/touches to get better, instead of standing around and watching the Trae experience.




No player should have the ball in his hands for this long, especially on a young team where players need to be incorporated in the flow of the offense, getting regular touches, given opportunities to handle the ball, playing in a team-first environment, in order to stay engaged so they can build on their skillsets, confidence, and development. His teammates aren't going to get any better getting scrap possessions and irregular touches, standing around watching him coming down the court, abusing PnRs, and simply looking to shoot and not move the ball on every other possession.

And what makes his time of possession worse is that, all those other players near the top, play in tight games, regularly, where the ball needs to be in their hands, whereas Trae is dominating the ball when his team is getting blown out.

You say that Trae is the only one who's knocking down shots, well, did it ever cross your mind that because he's allowed to monopolize the ball to a far greater degree than any other player in the league, that his teammates (who lack his talent/skillset) aren't able to just hit shots the same because they need to play in an offense that plays to their strengths? How are they supposed to hit shots and score at a regular clip when they're only given the ball when Trae feels like it? How are they supposed to provide consistent offensive production when they get erratic touches that are not in the flow of the offense?

Or are you going to start telling me the Hawks offensive system is maximizing the abilities and growth of his support cast?

The negative effect of his ball-dominance would be somewhat mitigated if he was capable of managing the offense, but he has little-to-no understanding of reading the flow of the game, and would rather microwave shyt with his constant need to go for home-run plays, instead of running some resemblance of a stable and balanced offense.

Since he doesn't have the size to fall back on, the Hawks have clusters of possessions where he gets caught in dead-ends and tries to shoot his way into rhythm (or force errant passes), which by the time he finds rhythm, the opposition has already built a double-digit lead (only Westbrook is less efficient and turns the ball over at a higher rate in the 1st quarter), and the team has to fight from behind for the rest of the game (the Hawks have the worst net-rating in the 1st quarter).

Essentially, the Hawks lose games in the 1st quarter, and it's largely down to the fact their offense hangs by the thread of Trae's inconsistent individual play and inability to run an offense.

[Thomas]

10 hours ago, terrell said:

I wondered how many players would set records. RJ and Mitchell most points scored this season. KNicks most points scored since 1980. Wow..

Hey we are setting records right? Anyway the story is consistent in that we have no center that counts, no pg when Trae is on the bench, no perimeter success on offense and our defense is high school level for the majority of our time on the floor. No one can or likes to set a real screen either which helps kill any attempt at efficiency. Frustrating as heck.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

14 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Like I said, John Collins ain't fixing this shit. This is deeper than John

Some of this is inexperience and some is coaching.  How many possessions have we had this season where four guys are standing around on offense waiting on Trae to do something?  These guys need to watch tape on Rip Hamilton and Reggie Miller and learn how to move without the ball.  It pisses me of when I see guys taking breaks on offense.  If you just come down on offense and stand in the corner, then you have removed yourself from the game and we're basically 4 on 5 on offense. Cam is athletic enough to add a dose of Reggie to his game.

[Spud2nique]

10 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I will be at the Utah game. I hope this ain't like the last game I attended in Houston 

Have a great time Supes. Hope we can get a W.

[Spud2nique]

41 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trae Young is also the problem and until he changes his mindset to a winning position, he is just another Marbury to me.

I do agree he is holding the ball too much. Overall time of possession needs to be cut. Having said that, he has no capable help.  We have a bunch of young dudes who are raw and need reps and our older vets are playing like rookies. I thought Crabbe and Jones would come in and be decent but they are beyond stink.

But he’s still no Marbury to me.

[Thomas]

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Travis traded for Jones and he's been a f***ing disgrace. He's the Allen Crabbe of rim runners. 

I won't blame Travis for Parker starting, that's why Collins needs to get the shit slapped outta him. 

Travis needs to get fully slapped for thinking Evan Turner was going to be the backup PG this year. 

Guess I get the doing Baze a favor with his supposed "I was in a dark place thing" but get a competent backup pg out of it for sure. Bad, bad decision listening to CLP on those days in Philly with Turner on that move. Eighteen or more million could have gotten us something.

[Cwell]

43 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Now, the problem isn't him still being in the game at these times, the problem is him still dominating the ball, and not allowing his teammates to handle or touch it, and coming down and jacking up shots or passing directly leading to an assist, playing the exact same way he does all throughout the game. These are the times when he should be taking a backseat, and letting those around him develop their skillsets/games and have valuable reps/touches to get better, instead of standing around and watching the Trae experience.




No player should have the ball in his hands for this long, especially on a young team where players need to be incorporated in the flow of the offense, getting regular touches, given opportunities to handle the ball, playing in a team-first environment, in order to stay engaged so they can build on their skillsets, confidence, and development. His teammates aren't going to get any better getting scrap possessions and irregular touches, standing around watching him coming down the court, abusing PnRs, and simply looking to shoot and not move the ball on every other possession.

And what makes his time of possession worse is that, all those other players near the top, play in tight games, regularly, where the ball needs to be in their hands, whereas Trae is dominating the ball when his team is getting blown out.

You say that Trae is the only one who's knocking down shots, well, did it ever cross your mind that because he's allowed to monopolize the ball to a far greater degree than any other player in the league, that his teammates (who lack his talent/skillset) aren't able to just hit shots the same because they need to play in an offense that plays to their strengths? How are they supposed to hit shots and score at a regular clip when they're only given the ball when Trae feels like it? How are they supposed to provide consistent offensive production when they get erratic touches that are not in the flow of the offense?

Or are you going to start telling me the Hawks offensive system is maximizing the abilities and growth of his support cast?

The negative effect of his ball-dominance would be somewhat mitigated if he was capable of managing the offense, but he has little-to-no understanding of reading the flow of the game, and would rather microwave shyt with his constant need to go for home-run plays, instead of running some resemblance of a stable and balanced offense.

Since he doesn't have the size to fall back on, the Hawks have clusters of possessions where he gets caught in dead-ends and tries to shoot his way into rhythm (or force errant passes), which by the time he finds rhythm, the opposition has already built a double-digit lead (only Westbrook is less efficient and turns the ball over at a higher rate in the 1st quarter), and the team has to fight from behind for the rest of the game (the Hawks have the worst net-rating in the 1st quarter).

Essentially, the Hawks lose games in the 1st quarter, and it's largely down to the fact their offense hangs by the thread of Trae's inconsistent individual play and inability to run an offense.

Meh, said this weeks ago. Trae plays like how I played PG in MyCareer in NBA 2k. Its not his fault. It's the fact that we have a nonexistent structure of an offense. We hardly run any sets. The guys are not trained to do certain things in certain situations. Outside of the high pick and roll, the offense is 100% free lance 1 on 1 bs while 4 guys stand around watching. Bembry and Parker are the only players that have a natural knack to cut to the basket when Trae drives

Edit: Should have quoted the first post but screw it. Playas eff up too lol

Edited December 18, 2019 by Cwell

[Thomas]

34 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I thought Crabbe and Jones would come in and be decent but they are beyond stink.

They equal a couple of future picks to us and nothing more it appears. It is very weird that a legitimate three point shooter all of a sudden can't hit three pointers when he moves to Atlanta though. Voodoo stuff right there.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, Cwell said:

Meh, said this weeks ago. Trae plays like how I played PG in MyCareer in NBA 2k. Its not his fault. It's the fact that we have a nonexistent structure of an offense. We hardly run any sets. The guys are not trained to do certain things in certain situations. Outside of the high pick and roll, the offense is 100% free lance 1 on 1 bs while 4 guys stand around watching. Bembry and Parker are the only players that have a natural knack to cut to the basket when Trae drives

Edit: Should have quoted the first post but screw it. Playas eff up too lol

As the PG who is dominating possession, he is in part responsible for the success or failure of the offense. It's not like me or anyone else has an issue with him taking open shots and even some contested. 

[Spud2nique]

Just now, Thomas said:

They equal a couple of future picks to us and nothing more it appears. It is very weird that a three point shooter all of a sudden can't hit three pointers when he moves to Atlanta though. Voodoo stuff right there.

I wasn’t aware that Crabbe changed his shot after his injury. There’s a hitch in his release that looks like he’s almost pushing the shot vs letting it fly. I’m no shooting expert but he needs to get in the lab again.

Speaking of bad shooting styles I was watching the Magic game a bit after the Hawks. They were in Utah and Fultz shot a 3... wow ..the ugliest shot, possibly in the history of the league. It’s almost as if he’s trying to make things more difficult.

 

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Guess I get the doing Baze a favor with his supposed "I was in a dark place thing" but get a competent backup pg out of it for sure. Bad, bad decision listening to CLP on those days in Philly with Turner on that move. Eighteen or more million could have gotten us something.

Turner simply hasn't been healthy here. He moves like his Achilles has been blown out and he already was an average athlete at the very beginning. 

That said, you are right, we did a solid to Bazemore and a solid for VC and what we got to show for it is a much worse product than last year.

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Turner simply hasn't been healthy here. He moves like his Achilles has been blown out and he already was an average athlete at the very beginning. 

Did he play differently before? He dribbles, shoots and passes like he did at Ohio st.

[NBASupes]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

Did he play differently before? He dribbles, shoots and passes like he did at Ohio st.

Much differently, he lost all explosiveness this year and lost all lift on his jumper.

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Much differently, he lost all explosiveness this year and lost all lift on his jumper.

Hmm . He had lift? I guess I’m not remembering him being much more explosive than what he is showing and has throughout his career.

[kg01]

12 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I wasn’t aware that Crabbe changed his shot after his injury. There’s a hitch in his release that looks like he’s almost pushing the shot vs letting it fly. I’m no shooting expert but he needs to get in the lab again.

Speaking of bad shooting styles I was watching the Magic game a bit after the Hawks. They were in Utah and Fultz shot a 3... wow ..the ugliest shot, possibly in the history of the league. It’s almost as if he’s trying to make things more difficult.

 

Crabbe sucks bonkey dalls.  Seems clear to me that he doesn't want to be here.  Get him and Parker's arse out of here, stat!

[terrell]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Now, the problem isn't him still being in the game at these times, the problem is him still dominating the ball, and not allowing his teammates to handle or touch it, and coming down and jacking up shots or passing directly leading to an assist, playing the exact same way he does all throughout the game. These are the times when he should be taking a backseat, and letting those around him develop their skillsets/games and have valuable reps/touches to get better, instead of standing around and watching the Trae experience.




No player should have the ball in his hands for this long, especially on a young team where players need to be incorporated in the flow of the offense, getting regular touches, given opportunities to handle the ball, playing in a team-first environment, in order to stay engaged so they can build on their skillsets, confidence, and development. His teammates aren't going to get any better getting scrap possessions and irregular touches, standing around watching him coming down the court, abusing PnRs, and simply looking to shoot and not move the ball on every other possession.

And what makes his time of possession worse is that, all those other players near the top, play in tight games, regularly, where the ball needs to be in their hands, whereas Trae is dominating the ball when his team is getting blown out.

You say that Trae is the only one who's knocking down shots, well, did it ever cross your mind that because he's allowed to monopolize the ball to a far greater degree than any other player in the league, that his teammates (who lack his talent/skillset) aren't able to just hit shots the same because they need to play in an offense that plays to their strengths? How are they supposed to hit shots and score at a regular clip when they're only given the ball when Trae feels like it? How are they supposed to provide consistent offensive production when they get erratic touches that are not in the flow of the offense?

Or are you going to start telling me the Hawks offensive system is maximizing the abilities and growth of his support cast?

The negative effect of his ball-dominance would be somewhat mitigated if he was capable of managing the offense, but he has little-to-no understanding of reading the flow of the game, and would rather microwave shyt with his constant need to go for home-run plays, instead of running some resemblance of a stable and balanced offense.

Since he doesn't have the size to fall back on, the Hawks have clusters of possessions where he gets caught in dead-ends and tries to shoot his way into rhythm (or force errant passes), which by the time he finds rhythm, the opposition has already built a double-digit lead (only Westbrook is less efficient and turns the ball over at a higher rate in the 1st quarter), and the team has to fight from behind for the rest of the game (the Hawks have the worst net-rating in the 1st quarter).

Essentially, the Hawks lose games in the 1st quarter, and it's largely down to the fact their offense hangs by the thread of Trae's inconsistent individual play and inability to run an offense.

Have you seen our other players with the ball in their hands? Usually a turnover, a brick, or a blocked layup waiting to happen.

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Crabbe sucks bonkey dalls.  Seems clear to me that he doesn't want to be here.  Get him and Parker's arse out of here, stat!

Crabbe...Jones...Turner...Parker.

We have some crappy vets I’m sorry.