[Winter 2020] Woj Rumor: Drummmmmnd to ATL talks happening

[AHF]

34 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Nothing like a public negotiation. I said $10 million or more. You want to make the push between $10 and $12 million. Now if you really want to show some stones you'd make the bet at $10 million as originally stated. So even though you know I don't normally bet, greater than $10 million I win, less than $10 million you win. Bet is null and void if Len misses > 25% of the remaining season due to injury, trade for a greater big man which impacts his value or if Len is traded by the deadline and instead of an avatar change how about this. For 3 days loser will have to like the posts of the winner no matter much they disagree. Each and every post, up and to the limit of daily likes. The loser will also have to respond with "I agree".

So I need to show you more stones by making the bet better for you than risk free if your minimum is true?  Ok.  I’m game but let’s clean this up.

The big man carve out is vague and the trade one doesn’t make sense to me. Dedmon lost the starting role last year and got his $13M per contract.  
 

Do we agree that it has to be one of these triggers which reduces his minutes by 20% or more for the remainder of the season when healthy?

@thecampster

Bet:  2020-21 salary greater than $10 million thecampster wins, less than $10 million AHF wins. Bet is null and void if (1) Len misses > 25% of the remaining season due to injury or (2) a trade for a greater big man which impacts his value or if Len is traded by the deadline either of which result in a reduction of his playing time by 20% or more the remainder of the year when heathy.  
 

Stakes:  For 3 days loser will have to like the posts of the winner no matter much they disagree. Each and every post, up and to the limit of daily likes. The loser will also have to respond with "I agree".

 

[thecampster]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

So I need to show you more stones by making the bet that Ben better for you than risk free if your minimum is true?  Ok.  I’m game but let’s clean this up.

What do you mean by trade for a greater big man that impacts his trade value?  Also, why would we ever have a carbe out for trades if his role is similar in his new team?  Dedmon lost the starting role last year and got his $13M per contract.  
 

Do we agree that it has to be one of these triggers which reduces his minutes by 20% or more for the remainder of the season when healthy?

Bet:  2020-21 salary greater than $10 million Thcampster wins, less than $10 million you AHF wins. Bet is null and void if (1) Len misses > 25% of the remaining season due to injury or (2) a trade for a greater big man which impacts his value or if Len is traded by the deadline either of which result in a reduction of his playing time by 20% or more the remainder of the year when heathy.  
 

Stakes:  For 3 days loser will have to like the posts of the winner no matter much they disagree. Each and every post, up and to the limit of daily likes. The loser will also have to respond with "I agree".

Done

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

Done

Most important win there is no one touches my avatar with Mama on it.

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

I'll keep saying it. It's all about the deal. Give up Parsons and the BKN pick (which has very little value to me) and I do the trade. See how he fits and what he adds to the Hawks and then decide whether to invest in him longterm. Very little risk imo. Absolute worst case, he sucks like you suggests but opts in next year and Hawks walk away in 21. Worth the risk in my opinion.

Look. You may be 100% correct. Or it could be that pairing him with Trae and John makes the Hawks substantially better. I'd like to see it for myself. 

And FWIW, I'm less inclined to put much stock in his performances with a dysfunctional Pistons team. 

I value that Brooklyn pick a lot more than Drummond. That's the biggest part where we differ. I don't see Drummond worth more than his market value. I also think the Brooklyn pick is a massive overpay. 

4 years of cheap rookie control in a spot where you can get a quality player>>>>>>> Drummond current rental status and any future demands leaves an extremely bad taste in my mouth

That Brooklyn pick right now is around the 15-17 range. It's much too valuable for a rental unless we are talking a legit impact player like Kemba Walker last year. Especially for a team like ours who still needs as much young talent as possible. 

Edited January 6, 2020 by NBASupes

[AHF]

If he plans to opt out, it makes him hugely more risky,

[NBASupes]

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1926009

Give me Baynes at 10-13 million

Or

Favors at 12-15 million

Favors is better play at 12-15 million than Drummond at 25-30 million

Favors doesn't do anything exceptionally well but he is an excellent screen setter, high BBIQ on both ends, when he plays bigger minutes for Utah and New Orleans, they win and win often. He offers some defensive versatility. Offensively, he is sound in a number of areas and really plays the position well. While he is just solid, he impacts winning and had the number one DRAYMOND last year with Utah. 

Worth the power play to me and doesn't take up much cap room.

[terrell]

Favors is shorter than Collins, and way less athletic.. Longer wingspan, but still..What about Chris Boucher? KId has a ton of defensive upside. Same height and wingspan as Favors, but he's only 26..

Edited January 6, 2020 by terrell

[kg01]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1926009

Give me Baynes at 10-13 million

Or

Favors at 12-15 million

Favors is better play at 12-15 million than Drummond at 25-30 million

Favors doesn't do anything exceptionally well but he is an excellent screen setter, high BBIQ on both ends, when he plays bigger minutes for Utah and New Orleans, they win and win often. He offers some defensive versatility. Offensively, he is sound in a number of areas and really plays the position well. While he is just solid, he impacts winning and had the number one DRAYMOND last year with Utah. 

Worth the power play to me and doesn't take up much cap room.

Favors' health is an issue.  Suns need to hurry up and do what they're famous for (falling into the lottery) so Baynes/Johnson are available.

Another thought: Can we get involved in the eventual emoLove trade(s) by using the Parsons contract to facilitate?  Net some assets.

[Thomas]

54 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Done

Rut row. Believe you just made a bet with the board's lawyer just now. Am figuring the odds of your avatar's off season survival just dropped a good bit.

[NBASupes]

54 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Favors' health is an issue.  Suns need to hurry up and do what they're famous for (falling into the lottery) so Baynes/Johnson are available.

Another thought: Can we get involved in the eventual emoLove trade(s) by using the Parsons contract to facilitate?  Net some assets.

Turner is more than likely the guy unless we are talking big money guys like Drummond, Adams, Horford, and Vecevic where Parsons would be the guy. 

As far as Love, I don't think his value is what Cleveland thinks it is. I think he can be traded for in a flat deal. Most teams actually want a 1st to take his contract. Cleveland wants a 1st to trade him. Cleveland is likely stuck with Love for the foreseeable future. 

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I value that Brooklyn pick a lot more than Drummond. That's the biggest part where we differ. I don't see Drummond worth more than his market value. I also think the Brooklyn pick is a massive overpay. 

4 years of cheap rookie control in a spot where you can get a quality player>>>>>>> Drummond current rental status and any future demands leaves an extremely bad taste in my mouth

That Brooklyn pick right now is around the 15-17 range. It's much too valuable for a rental unless we are talking a legit impact player like Kemba Walker last year. Especially for a team like ours who still needs as much young talent as possible. 

We definitely differ on the BKN pick. I don't see how it can be considered overly valuable if used as a pick (rather than trade fodder). I know it's too early to say for sure, but articles I've read seem to suggest that this year's draft isn't going to be especially deep, so I'm not sure what kind of player we would expect at 15-17. 

More importantly (and I'm going to sound like a broker record here), I can't have so many developmental players on my roster for the next few years. Now that we have added in Goodwin, there's 7 guys still on their rookie contracts on this year's team. We add our 1st in this upcoming draft that's 8. Now we add BKN's pick and that's nine. I just don't have any interest in 9 of 15 players being on their rookie deals. Not when next year should be a year where they make the jump into the playoffs. 

So whether it's Drummond or Adams or Baynes or whomever, I gotta have them use that pick in a trade. I just don't want the Hawks drafting that BKN pick UNLESS they make other deals that involve the young core to reduce the number of rookie contract guys. And I wouldn't be in favor of that either as that seems to push the timeline back even more. 

How many elite teams have used 8 1sts in 3 years and kept 7 of them? I'd guess none. But that's exactly what Hawks will be doing (not mention keeping Bruno from the 2nd round).  

[AHF]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

Done

Good man!  Should be fun.

[thecampster]

51 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Rut row. Believe you just made a bet with the board's lawyer just now. Am figuring the odds of your avatar's off season survival just dropped a good bit.

He just made a deal with a cyber security pro.

Just now, thecampster said:

He just made a deal with a cyber security pro.

Speaking of which, earned my CISSP a few months ago...now considering CEH (Certified Ethical Hacker)

 

[thecampster]

The current list of Centers making more than $10 million per seasons

 

Karl-Anthony Towns (2019-2023)	C	MIN	24	5	$158,253,000	$158,253,000	100.00%	$31,650,600	2024
Joel Embiid (2018-2022)	C	PHI	25	5	$147,710,050	$147,710,050	100.00%	$29,542,010	2023
Nikola Jokic (2018-2022)	C	DEN	24	5	$147,710,050	$142,710,044	96.62%	$29,542,010	2023
Andre Drummond (2016-2020)	C	DET	26	5	$127,171,313	$127,171,313	100.00%	$25,434,263	2021
Kevin Love (2019-2022)	C	CLE	31	4	$120,402,172	$120,402,172	100.00%	$30,100,543	2023
Marc Gasol (2015-2019)	C	TORSigned w/MEM	34	5	$113,211,750	$113,211,750	100.00%	$22,642,350	2020
Al Horford (2019-2022)	C	PHI	33	4	$109,000,000	$97,000,000	88.99%	$27,250,000	2023
Rudy Gobert (2017-2020)	C	UTH	27	4	$102,000,000	$94,000,000	92.16%	$25,500,000	2021
Steven Adams (2017-2020)	C	OKC	26	4	$100,000,000	$100,000,000	100.00%	$25,000,000	2021
Nikola Vucevic (2019-2022)	C	ORL	29	4	$100,000,000	$100,000,000	100.00%	$25,000,000	2023
Hassan Whiteside (2016-2019)	C	PORSigned w/MIA	30	4	$98,419,538	$98,419,538	100.00%	$24,604,885	2020
Clint Capela (2018-2022)	C	HOU	25	5	$90,000,000	$80,000,000	88.89%	$18,000,000	2023
Tristan Thompson (2015-2019)	C	CLE	28	5	$82,000,000	$82,000,000	100.00%	$16,400,000	2020
Myles Turner (2019-2022)	C	IND	23	4	$80,000,000	$70,000,000	87.50%	$20,000,000	2023
Domantas Sabonis (2020-2023)	C	IND	23	4	$74,900,000	$74,900,000	100.00%	$18,725,000	2024
Bismack Biyombo (2016-2019)	C	CHASigned w/ORL	27	4	$72,000,000	$68,000,000	94.44%	$18,000,000	2020
Ian Mahinmi (2016-2019)	C	WAS	33	4	$64,000,000	$64,000,000	100.00%	$16,000,000	2020
Gorgui Dieng (2017-2020)	C	MIN	29	4	$62,800,000	$62,800,000	100.00%	$15,700,000	2021
Cody Zeller (2017-2020)	C	CHA	27	4	$56,000,000	$56,000,000	100.00%	$14,000,000	2021
Brook Lopez (2019-2022)	C	MIL	31	4	$52,000,000	$52,000,000	100.00%	$13,000,000	2023
Kelly Olynyk (2017-2020)	C	MIA	28	4	$50,000,000	$45,610,826	91.22%	$12,500,000	2021
Jusuf Nurkic (2018-2021)	C	POR	25	4	$48,000,000	$40,000,000	83.33%	$12,000,000	2022
Jonas Valanciunas (2019-2021)	C	MEM	27	3	$45,000,000	$45,000,000	100.00%	$15,000,000	2022
Meyers Leonard (2016-2019)	C	MIASigned w/POR	27	4	$41,000,000	$41,000,000	100.00%	$10,250,000	2020
Mason Plumlee (2017-2019)	C	DEN	29	3	$41,000,000	$41,000,000	100.00%	$13,666,667	2020
Dewayne Dedmon (2019-2021)	C	SAC	30	3	$40,000,000	$26,666,667	66.67%	$13,333,333	2022

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

We definitely differ on the BKN pick. I don't see how it can be considered overly valuable if used as a pick (rather than trade fodder). I know it's too early to say for sure, but articles I've read seem to suggest that this year's draft isn't going to be especially deep, so I'm not sure what kind of player we would expect at 15-17. 

More importantly (and I'm going to sound like a broker record here), I can't have so many developmental players on my roster for the next few years. Now that we have added in Goodwin, there's 7 guys still on their rookie contracts on this year's team. We add our 1st in this upcoming draft that's 8. Now we add BKN's pick and that's nine. I just don't have any interest in 9 of 15 players being on their rookie deals. Not when next year should be a year where they make the jump into the playoffs. 

So whether it's Drummond or Adams or Baynes or whomever, I gotta have them use that pick in a trade. I just don't want the Hawks drafting that BKN pick UNLESS they make other deals that involve the young core to reduce the number of rookie contract guys. And I wouldn't be in favor of that either as that seems to push the timeline back even more. 

How many elite teams have used 8 1sts in 3 years and kept 7 of them? I'd guess none. But that's exactly what Hawks will be doing (not mention keeping Bruno from the 2nd round).  

Boston. 

Houston and LAC and cashed in their chips when the right time came. 

LAL and also cashed in their chips when the right offer came. 

Brooklyn in the Marks era

When you trade key assets when you do not have to, you end up in bad situations. Remember, these are cheaply controlled assets. They are extremely valuable in terms of salary management and roster building. 

Teams who do stupid shit like this while rebuilding like the Knicks and Magic usually pay the price. 

Patience is value. The right deal is valuable. 

The right deal is two future 2nds, a 2nd or free. Anything more than that is a massive overpay and just wait till the offseason.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

He just made a deal with a cyber security pro.

Speaking of which, earned my CISSP a few months ago...now considering CEH (Certified Ethical Hacker)

 

I was considering getting mines but I am doing well in the space that I am currently in. Congrats brother! That's massive!

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The current list of Centers making more than $10 million er seasons

26 players via https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/cap-hit/center/

Just looking at the current trend, I highly doubt Len will get more than 8 million. He is a backup 5 in an era where teams don't want to pay 5 this much money unless they are game changers 

Most of the bad center contracts end this year. 

Edited January 6, 2020 by NBASupes

[thecampster]

He's a stretch 5..someone will pay.

 

[thecampster]

and remember, the cap goes up 7 million next year.

 

[NBASupes]

Just now, thecampster said:

He's a stretch 5..someone will pay.

 

Honestly, the bet you made with AHF is an easy win for him. Even the bets I made were terrible from the jump but I wanted to show confidence in my take no matter what. He will be coveted for the same role with another team but I can see his best offer being 3/22 with a descending salary. Centers who lack defensive versatility and are offensively limited aren't worth much, especially ones who are bad starters and backups at best.