[Winter 2020] Woj Rumor: Drummmmmnd to ATL talks happening

[REHawksFan]

42 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Folks are drunk on the idea of something, anything happening.

Drummond would clearly help us.  But at possibly $30+mil per year, he's instantly become one of the worst contracts in the league.  It'd be close to Biyombo-esque

That's not it at all for me. It's not a move just to make a move. I am legitimately intrigued at how he would fit and how much better he would make the hawks. His ELITE skill matches up with the Hawk's biggest deficiency so I'm interested in the fit. I also recognize that he plays an outdated C position in today's NBA. He doesn't stretch the floor. I get that. But he's ELITE at rebounding and (I know you disagree) he's a HUGE upgrade defensively. Hell, the decreased off reb given up will help in that area alone. 

For me - I've said this multiple times already - I want to see it before I sign up long term. I cannot stress that enough. I think it makes a ton of sense to see how he fits on the team BEFORE agreeing to a long term deal. That's what makes this trade possibility so intriguing. Being honest, I'm less in favor of going after him in FA without the trade because I do recognize it is a risk in terms of fit. And it's not a risk I'm willing to take at $30M/ Yr for 5 years. 

BUT.......I'm eager to take that risk when it *only* costs Parsons and a pick for 3 months of a rental. That way I get to see IF the fit works and IF so, I got no problem signing up longterm, even at $30M. The Hawks would STILL have sufficient cap space for another MAX contract down the road. IF the fit doesn't work, all parties walk away and it *only* costs a pick. Win win, imo. 

 

[Thomas]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We've seen players agree to deals in principle only to back out and sign elsewhere

Horrific Danny Manning flashback. Supposedly he and Lenny were on the same page....

[REHawksFan]

8 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

That's not the issue. 

1. Are you Ok with surrending the BKN 1st for the next 4 months? Yes, I understand about the trade being contingent with him agreeing to resign but that unfortunately doesn't hold water for me. We've seen players agree to deals in principle only to back out and sign elsewhere - DeAndre Jordan, Al Horford, Markieff Morris.

2. Early reports indicated that he's seeking a max contract. Are you Ok with giving him a 5 year deal starting at $34.8 million in the 1st year?

 

 

1. YES. I'm fine with giving up the BKN pick for 3-4 months of Drummond.

2. Depends on how the 3-4 months of Drummond go. Not interested in that investment if I don't get to see the product fit first. That's why the trade is so damn important to me. If they don't trade for him, it's just too risky to sign him in case the fit isn't there. 

[NBASupes]

10 minutes ago, Blunt91 said:

From the Highlights I have seen of Obi Toppin he is a good player but he doesn't necessarily wow me.  He looks like a combination of Jabari Parker's post game with AL Horford's jumpshot and defense.

You gotta watch his games possession by possession. He's gonna be a winner ASAP. He does move like Al. I liked him previously to John Collins and Kyle Kuzma but the more I watch Al Horford and Kenyon Martin is who I compare him to the most. Either way, polished, ready to help a team ASAP, a winner, easy to plug in. Last year's draft lacked that high end plug in guy. The year before, that guy was Donovan Mitchell but Mitchell wasn't impactful on winning stats. I think Toppin will help a team ASAP. 

His potential likely lowers his stock to some teams but a guy with a solid starter as a floor in this draft is just too appealing to me even if his ceiling to become a star is unlikely. I see multiple time All Star potential in this kid but if you are shooting for the stars, Edwards and Ball are your guys. 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

That's not it at all for me. It's not a move just to make a move. I am legitimately intrigued at how he would fit and how much better he would make the hawks. His ELITE skill matches up with the Hawk's biggest deficiency so I'm interested in the fit. I also recognize that he plays an outdated C position in today's NBA. He doesn't stretch the floor. I get that. But he's ELITE at rebounding and (I know you disagree) he's a HUGE upgrade defensively. Hell, the decreased off reb given up will help in that area alone. 

For me - I've said this multiple times already - I want to see it before I sign up long term. I cannot stress that enough. I think it makes a ton of sense to see how he fits on the team BEFORE agreeing to a long term deal. That's what makes this trade possibility so intriguing. Being honest, I'm less in favor of going after him in FA without the trade because I do recognize it is a risk in terms of fit. And it's not a risk I'm willing to take at $30M/ Yr for 5 years. 

BUT.......I'm eager to take that risk when it *only* costs Parsons and a pick for 3 months of a rental. That way I get to see IF the fit works and IF so, I got no problem signing up longterm, even at $30M. The Hawks would STILL have sufficient cap space for another MAX contract down the road. IF the fit doesn't work, all parties walk away and it *only* costs a pick. Win win, imo. 

 

It's been reported DET turned down our appropriately lowball offer already.  IOW, they want at least a 1st AND one of our young core guys.

So the question is, do you want your sneak peek likely at the cost of Reddish AND a 1st.

The likelihood is, if they give up that package, they've already agreed in principle to sign him longterm so there goes your peek.

These are the hard questions, mayne.  Can't have it both ways.  A lowball offer may not get him.  A highball (is that a thing?) offer means he's 'it' for us for the next 4+ years starting at $34+mil per (yikes, considering he's really got no offensive game).

NBARadio guys raised another good point w.r.t. the Hawks acquiring Drummond.  Him at that salary means, whether we like it or not, he's the leader of the franchise.

"Bu-bu-but wait, kg.  Trae's the leader."

Not really.  Not if Drummond is the max guy salary-wise.  Remember salary can dictate a lot in an NBA lockerroom.  Is Drummond gonna work hard just 'cause Trae says so when he's already been incentivized to be eggsactly what he's already been game-wise?

Drummond is known for his questionable maturity so these are all considerations.  Not just his reboarding.

1 minute ago, Thomas said:

Horrific Danny Manning flashback.

I just got trigger'd by this post.  I'm just gonna lie down for the rest of the daymy life.

[Gray Mule]

Taking him now, with him signed on the dotted line for next season, makes sense.  Waiting until free agency, not so good.  All NBA players can easily look up and see what all the players on their team is being paid.  Right now, Hawks have three very high $$$ payroll players, none of which is worth anywhere near what they are drawing.

They all three are expiring.  What would you, as a player and a starter, feel about a teammate making 10 times what you make and not producing?  I wouldn't like a teammate making 10 times what I made unless he was a super star.  

Sure, Hawks really need a super star.  Does he qualify?  Is he the missing piece to carry the Hawks to the championship?  Inquiring minds want to know...

[Thomas]

7 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Right now, Hawks have three very high $$$ payroll players, none of which is worth anywhere near what they are drawing.

Yeah, only one of them even gets minutes. Not so much burn for over 60 million.

[kg01]

16 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

1. YES. I'm fine with giving up the BKN pick for 3-4 months of Drummond.

My only pushback is that an NBA-level GM is paid to anticipate fit.  Certainly anticipate it to the point where he's not having to give up a 1st just to get a look-see.

[REHawksFan]

7 minutes ago, kg01 said:

It's been reported DET turned down our appropriately lowball offer already.  IOW, they want at least a 1st AND one of our young core guys.

So the question is, do you want your sneak peek likely at the cost of Reddish AND a 1st.

That's an EASY pass from me. As I've stated, the ONLY way this makes sense to me is if the only *cost* is an expiring plus a pick. I mean, I guess if they just HAVE to have a young guy, I'd grudgingly trow in Jones, but that's where I draw the line. (Who am I kidding, I'd probably beg them to take Jones). Anyway, I'm not convinced just because they turned down an initial offer that that settles it. The initial offer COULD have just been Parsons plus a 2nd. I'm willing to bump it up to the BKN pick (or OKC pick) if necessary. But that's it. Det risks losing him for nothing so I would think the close we get to the deadline, the more reasonable they will be. 

11 minutes ago, kg01 said:

NBARadio guys raised another good point w.r.t. the Hawks acquiring Drummond.  Him at that salary means, whether we like it or not, he's the leader of the franchise.

"Bu-bu-but wait, kg.  Trae's the leader."

Not really.  Not if Drummond is the max guy salary-wise.  Remember salary can dictate a lot in an NBA lockerroom.  Is Drummond gonna work hard just 'cause Trae says so when he's already been incentivized to be eggsactly what he's already been game-wise?

Drummond is known for his questionable maturity so these are all considerations.  Not just his reboarding.

Gonna just go ahead and disagree here. Yes, Drummond has a rep as being lazy or whatever, but Trae is still the Alpha. Other players know that, imo. Could it blow up? Sure, but that's partly why the trial run is so important. 

[REHawksFan]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

My only pushback is that an NBA-level GM is paid to anticipate fit.  Certainly anticipate it to the point where he's not having to give up a 1st just to get a look-see.

Don't disagree here. But I'd still rather have the sneak peak than not. As I mentioned to Supes the other day, though, a mid round 1st just doesn't have a ton of value to me as an actual pick for the Hawks (given the makeup of the current team), so I don't mind playing a little loose with it.  

[kg01]

6 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

That's an EASY pass from me. As I've stated, the ONLY way this makes sense to me is if the only *cost* is an expiring plus a pick. I mean, I guess if they just HAVE to have a young guy, I'd grudgingly trow in Jones, but that's where I draw the line. (Who am I kidding, I'd probably beg them to take Jones). Anyway, I'm not convinced just because they turned down an initial offer that that settles it. The initial offer COULD have just been Parsons plus a 2nd. I'm willing to bump it up to the BKN pick (or OKC pick) if necessary. But that's it. Det risks losing him for nothing so I would think the close we get to the deadline, the more reasonable they will be. 

Gonna just go ahead and disagree here. Yes, Drummond has a rep as being lazy or whatever, but Trae is still the Alpha. Other players know that, imo. Could it blow up? Sure, but that's partly why the trial run is so important. 

All I'd give up is Parsons and a couple 2nds.  I guess I'd do the OKC pick and Parsons.  And, when they're not looking, I'd toss in Jones.

Trae being our 'alpha' is still pretty untested.  Reminds me of people saying Brad Stevens is a better coach than Pop.  We all saw what happened once he had actual NBA egos to deal with.  He struggled.

We still need to see how Trae leads when there's someone on the team that can actually challenge that.  It arguably didn't go well this year when the likes of Turner and Crabbe-meat bucked the status quo.

[NBASupes]

DET never declined any offers from Atlanta yet. @kg01

[NBASupes]

28 minutes ago, kg01 said:

NBARadio guys raised another good point w.r.t. the Hawks acquiring Drummond.  Him at that salary means, whether we like it or not, he's the leader of the franchise.

"Bu-bu-but wait, kg.  Trae's the leader."

Not really.  Not if Drummond is the max guy salary-wise.  Remember salary can dictate a lot in an NBA lockerroom.  Is Drummond gonna work hard just 'cause Trae says so when he's already been incentivized to be eggsactly what he's already been game-wise?

Drummond is known for his questionable maturity so these are all considerations.  Not just his reboarding.

I just got trigger'd by this post.  I'm just gonna lie down for the rest of the daymy life.

This is 100% true! 

[REHawksFan]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

DET never declined any offers from Atlanta yet. @kg01

Just to be clear though, ATL ain't offering any young players though, right?  

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

DET never declined any offers from Atlanta yet. @kg01

I'm pretty sure you're aware of my life motto: Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

I was on a roll 'til you shot me down, supes.  I'll forgive you just this once.

I think saying they haven't turned the offer down is just semantic though, no?

[NBASupes]

Just now, REHawksFan said:

Just to be clear though, ATL ain't offering any young players though, right?  

No. Hawks aren't trading any of their young TS drafted players. Including Bruno. Bembry and Parker is on the market. Len is and isn't. Teams are calling and Atlanta is listening but it will take a significant offer and from what I've heard, that won't happen. There is a chance Parker or Bembry could be traded but I doubt it. 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I don't understand why Drummond supporters are so dense about it.

It’s kind of like if someone said..

Cam is the guy you guys are banking on? For what? to look real nice and not be able to hit a layup? 
 

or...

Man that Alicia Horford is soft as butter. He runs away from rebounds and is the Benedict Arnold of the NBA.

 

You love what you love...

 

Having said that I do believe Cam will be a superstar  

Alice though.... I ain’t gone lie that’s him to the fullest.

[NBASupes]

I can see something like this happening the most: 

Hawks trade Len, Parsons and a future 2nd rounder

Pistons trade Drummond and Galloway

Raptors trade 2020 or 2021 1st rounder and Marc Gasol

Hawks get Gasol and Galloway

Pistons get TOR 1st, Len, Parsons, and a future 2nd rounder

Raps get Drummond and he opts in his 2nd year of his deal. 

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjmsuc7n

Why? 

DET gets their 1st they want, saves 3 million dollars, and gets a center to replace Drummond for the rest of the season. 

ATL gets a legit starting center who can communicate extremely well and play good defense and set good screens, they get a legit sharpshooter to add into the rotation. Can move Bruno to the 2nd string which is better for him at this stage of his career. 

TOR gets a younger center who is good, he opts in to 2020-21 so he doesn't get in the way of 2021 (Giannis) but gets to play for a potential contender and the defending champs. 

[REHawksFan]

14 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

It’s kind of like if someone said..

Cam is the guy you guys are banking on? For what? to look real nice and not be able to hit a layup? 
 

or...

Man that Alicia Whorford is soft as butter. He runs away from rebounds and is the Benedict Arnold of the NBA.

 

You love what you love...

 

Having said that I do believe Cam will be a superstar  

Alice though.... I ain’t gone lie that’s him to the fullest.

FIFY

[txsting]

We should be so lucky as to get a trial of Drummond for Cam and Parsons.  It allows Detroit to save face by getting an allegedly high upside prospect.  And we would keep that BKN pick which could easily be Halliburton or Tre Jones, providing a backup/partner for Trae.

Schlenk will know by now who Cam is behind the scenes.  Maybe he's a hungry guy with a quiet fire and Schlenk expects big time growth from him in the offseason.  I admit it must be hard to work on your game and your weaknesses during the grind of an NBA schedule.  But if the internal consensus on Cam matches some of the less than complementary pre-draft press he was getting, combined with the poor product on the floor, this might be the only chance you're going to get to return value for that pick.

Edited January 8, 2020 by txsting
soften the rhetoric