[Winter 2020] Woj Rumor: Drummmmmnd to ATL talks happening

[Buzzard]

13 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 

As if scouts have never been badly wrong. See all the bust in the world that have been taken because a long time head scout loved them. Detroit did not have a good balance around him. They should have been chasing the Kyle Korver's, Seth Curry's etc of the world; along with a PG worth a hoot.

[macdaddy]

Also, i think there's no way Drummond gets a max contract.  

[NBASupes]

44 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

As if scouts have never been badly wrong. See all the bust in the world that have been taken because a long time head scout loved them. Detroit did not have a good balance around him. They should have been chasing the Kyle Korver's, Seth Curry's etc of the world; along with a PG worth a hoot.

If I agree with the scout, would you also consider me badly wrong for agreeing with his hot take? 

[kg01]

Woj on NBARadio right now.  Not much useful said.

Mentioned Hawks talks with DET have died down - which is to be expected.  You'd expect it to ramp up closer to the deadline.

Biggest point was w.r.t. our expirings, Parsons, etc.  Basically said this year's free agent class being poor has almost totally devalued having these expirings.  Due to the fact that no teams are clamoring to free space to sign someone.

Said the value may come in sign n' trades this offseason where teams look to acquire guys who are under contract.

[Gray Mule]

Some posters do not value Cam very much right now.  Yet, when we read Detroit posters:

In the trade, we want Cam Reddish and ____________ 

Seems to be their thought process.  Almost all want Cam.  

I don't want the Hawks to loose Cam.  Not for anyone that's out there and not a super star.  All know that no one has ever and probably will never offer Atlanta a super star.

[Buzzard]

15 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If I agree with the scout, would you also consider me badly wrong for agreeing with his hot take? 

Its just one scout so take it with a grain of salt. Also the Raptors are 8th in defensive rebounds and 8th in total rebounds. Who ever chases Drummond, it will be based on what their lead scout says and based on need.

I trust Schlenk a whole lot more than some random scout for an opposing team that really has no need for Drummond.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

14 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Some posters do not value Cam very much right now.  Yet, when we read Detroit posters:

In the trade, we want Cam Reddish and ____________ 

Seems to be their thought process.  Almost all want Cam.  

I don't want the Hawks to loose Cam.  Not for anyone that's out there and not a super star.  All know that no one has ever and probably will never offer Atlanta a super star.

I feel pretty confident Cam will not be part of the deal. And your take is spot on. Opposing fans do not like Cam until they see a glimmer of hope to get him for an expiring contract ( peanuts ). Then they are all over his potential.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Buzzard

[JTB]

14 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Also, i think there's no way Drummond gets a max contract.  

I’ve been saying this the whole time! Dude is not going to get 30 mil or more per season!

it just ain’t happening in this love affair era of bigs shooting 3s

i think he’s more likely to top out at 23-25 mil per season.

9 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Woj on NBARadio right now.  Not much useful said.

Mentioned Hawks talks with DET have died down - which is to be expected.  You'd expect it to ramp up closer to the deadline.

Biggest point was w.r.t. our expirings, Parsons, etc.  Basically said this year's free agent class being poor has almost totally devalued having these expirings.  Due to the fact that no teams are clamoring to free space to sign someone.

Said the value may come in sign n' trades this offseason where teams look to acquire guys who are under contract.

Yup I said I’m going to give it until Wednesday or Thursday and if no Drummond by then that tells me where the hawks real interest is on him.

i still believe they want him to a certain degree simply because he could be a big help and the free agent class Coming up is weak as you mentioned but a trade would suggest they want his bird rights at the right cost so they could have the upper hand in keeping him even if he opts out.
 

If the pistons are really asking for a young player in return then i as Drummond supporter even understand turning down that deal! You can’t have our young assets, a 1st round draft pick , and expirings for cap relief! No sir! 

[JTB]

6 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I feel pretty confident Cam will not be part of the deal. And your take is spot on. Opposing fans do not like Cam until they see a glimmer of hope to get him for an expiring contract ( peanuts ). Then they are all over his potential.

Yeah no way in hell we give up on cam...maybe 4 years later but right now ???? NOPE

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Woj on NBARadio right now.  Not much useful said.

Mentioned Hawks talks with DET have died down - which is to be expected.  You'd expect it to ramp up closer to the deadline.

Biggest point was w.r.t. our expirings, Parsons, etc.  Basically said this year's free agent class being poor has almost totally devalued having these expirings.  Due to the fact that no teams are clamoring to free space to sign someone.

Said the value may come in sign n' trades this offseason where teams look to acquire guys who are under contract.

Been saying the same thing for the last several weeks. The Hawks are - unfortunately - screwed by timing. Think about it. Because the FA class this summer is so weak:

1. Teams don't need cap space so the Hawks expiring deals are less valuable;
2. The Hawks WILL HAVE a ton of cap space ($70M+) and no one to spend it on;
3. The Hawks have only 6 players under contract beyond this year (Trae, JC, Kev, Cam, Hunter, and Bruno) so they HAVE to add players which means:
   1. Either they OVERPAY in a fight with the handful of other NBA teams with cash to spend and no one to spend it on; or
   2. They acquire players through trading assets they have accumulated (including expiring contracts to make salaries work)
      1. Side note: the reason they need to do trades during the season is precisely so they can use those expiring contracts to match salaries but the contracts don't have much value; once summer hits, what do they have to trade other than picks? 

It's going to be fascinating to see whom the Schlenk targets in FA if he doesn't put together some trades. And at what price he has to shell out to sign said players. 

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

I’ve been saying this the whole time! Dude is not going to get 30 mil or more per season!

it just ain’t happening in this love affair era of bigs shooting 3s

i think he’s more likely to top out at 23-25 mil per season.

Yup I said I’m going to give it until Wednesday or Thursday and if no Drummond by then that tells me where the hawks real interest is on him.

i still believe they want him to a certain degree simply because he could be a big help and the free agent class Coming up is weak as you mentioned but a trade would suggest they want his bird rights at the right cost so they could have the upper hand in keeping him even if he opts out.
 

If the pistons are really asking for a young player in return then i as Drummond supporter even understand turning down that deal! You can’t have our young assets, a 1st round draft pick , and expirings for cap relief! No sir! 

What is the advantage that bird rights give you if you are not willing to give him a max deal?  With Bird rights, the max deal is roughly $35M.  I guess it gives you the chance for an extra year on the deal but when you are under $30M/per that always leaves you subject to being trumped.

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Been saying the same thing for the last several weeks. The Hawks are - unfortunately - screwed by timing. Think about it. Because the FA class this summer is so weak:

1. Teams don't need cap space so the Hawks expiring deals are less valuable;
2. The Hawks WILL HAVE a ton of cap space ($70M+) and no one to spend it on;
3. The Hawks have only 6 players under contract beyond this year (Trae, JC, Kev, Cam, Hunter, and Bruno) so they HAVE to add players which means:
   1. Either they OVERPAY in a fight with the handful of other NBA teams with cash to spend and no one to spend it on; or
   2. They acquire players through trading assets they have accumulated (including expiring contracts to make salaries work)
      1. Side note: the reason they need to do trades during the season is precisely so they can use those expiring contracts to match salaries but the contracts don't have much value; once summer hits, what do they have to trade other than picks? 

It's going to be fascinating to see whom the Schlenk targets in FA if he doesn't put together some trades. And at what price he has to shell out to sign said players. 

 

To me it lines up ideally for us to hand out several overpay, one-year contracts for a more competitive team next year. Instead of paying $13M for 3 years of someone like Dedmon, you sign that player for 1 year at $20M or a 2 year deal with a team option in the second year for a declining $36M two year deal (which is likely a one year, $18.5M deal or something like that).

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, kg01 said:

It's been reported DET turned down our appropriately lowball offer already.  IOW, they want at least a 1st AND one of our young core guys.

So the question is, do you want your sneak peek likely at the cost of Reddish AND a 1st.

The likelihood is, if they give up that package, they've already agreed in principle to sign him longterm so there goes your peek.

These are the hard questions, mayne.  Can't have it both ways.  A lowball offer may not get him.  A highball (is that a thing?) offer means he's 'it' for us for the next 4+ years starting at $34+mil per (yikes, considering he's really got no offensive game).

NBARadio guys raised another good point w.r.t. the Hawks acquiring Drummond.  Him at that salary means, whether we like it or not, he's the leader of the franchise.

"Bu-bu-but wait, kg.  Trae's the leader."

Not really.  Not if Drummond is the max guy salary-wise.  Remember salary can dictate a lot in an NBA lockerroom.  Is Drummond gonna work hard just 'cause Trae says so when he's already been incentivized to be eggsactly what he's already been game-wise?

Drummond is known for his questionable maturity so these are all considerations.  Not just his reboarding.

I just got trigger'd by this post.  I'm just gonna lie down for the rest of the daymy life.

 

Prediction:   50% of the fan base will want Cam Reddish either traded or let go by Feb 2021.

[txsting]

1 hour ago, Gray Mule said:

Some posters do not value Cam very much right now.  Yet, when we read Detroit posters:

In the trade, we want Cam Reddish and ____________ 

Seems to be their thought process.  Almost all want Cam.  

I don't want the Hawks to loose Cam.  Not for anyone that's out there and not a super star.  All know that no one has ever and probably will never offer Atlanta a super star.

With all respect, and much is given to you, there has never been a player in the history of the NBA to post an 83 offensive rating and have a career in this league.  In fact, only 3 have done worse ALL TIME.  Even if you're generous and take Cam's December split (86 offensive rating), there are only 16 worse offensive seasons in all of history.  And none by anyone who went on to have a good career.

If you're looking for hope, Jim Jackson was awful in his rookie year and went on to have a pretty decent career.  Al Harrington.  Mookie Blaylock.  At least the Hawks have some experience in this {shaking head emoji}.

Even his defensive rating of 116 has only been "bested" (worsted?)  by 26 guys in NBA history.  Two of which are on the current Hawks team (hint:  they are both in our "core")

IF you can get anything for him, get while the getting is good.  Poor investors always hold too long. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by txsting

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Drummond at the Max?

Or at least at 5 yrs / 150 mill?

Sign me up.

 

Drummond at 30 mill > Crabbe and Chandler at 43 mill.  

Acquiring Drummond and signing him long term would at least ensure that we don't completely strike out in free agency in 2020 and 2021 ( when the big names become available ).

[txsting]

I'm not mad at Cam, or picking on him.  I know he's 19.  Well actually he's 20 and 4 months.  Whatever.  I know he is on a bad team with a bad coach.  But the numbers are what they are.  The eye test is what it is as well.  I have to invent words to describe it.  Horribad.  Historibad.  

 

[kg01]

16 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Prediction:   50% of the fan base will want Cam Reddish either traded or let go by Feb 2021.

Prediction: 90% of the fan base, if we trade Reddish to (over)pay Drummond, will want Schlenk fired by Feb 2021 for doing so.

[Buzzard]

41 minutes ago, AHF said:

To me it lines up ideally for us to hand out several overpay, one-year contracts for a more competitive team next year. Instead of paying $13M for 3 years of someone like Dedmon, you sign that player for 1 year at $20M or a 2 year deal with a team option in the second year for a declining $36M two year deal (which is likely a one year, $18.5M deal or something like that).

I get the math and its what the 76ers did with Redick but its not common. A lot of players would take the 13 over three years and 39 million over the 20 for one season.

At the same time, I dot see a problem with having cap.. If you don't have it, you cannot play/wheel and deal. So its always better to have some if you are not a elite winning team.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Buzzard

[bleachkit]

14 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Edwards once again shows his offensive potential. He reminds me of John Wall as a prospect to a large degree. Not the same tools or player prototypes but both 

Aren't clean shooters although Edwards form is better than Wall's out of college. He is very strong for his frame. Gets downhill in a worry. John used to settle in college too much for jumpers and Anthony does for threes. 

Both have all of the tools on defense but they play matador defense. 

Both have potential to be elite but they have A LOT of work to do. 

Hard not seeing him be effective to a degree in year one. He will score, that's what he does and really no one can stop him like Wall. 

As for us, it will be tough to break the rotation next year. But he will be likely locked into the James Harden 6th man role for the foreseeable future with us. For him, it's best to go to a team like Cleveland where they badly need a #1 option regardless if he's ready or not. 

Not polished at all but his talent level is obvious. To me, he can't help you win games immediately but he is extremely talented and that's valuable for a future blockbuster trade. 

My top 10 is the draft is:

Draft grade/potential 

1. Obi Toppin- 8/8.5 

2. LaMelo Ball - 6.5/9.5

3. Anthony Edwards- 6.5/9.5

4. Onyeka Okongwu- 7/8.5

5. James Wiseman - 6.5/9

6. Cole Anthony- 7.5/8

7. Tyrese Haliburton - 7/8

8. Killian Hayes - 7/7.5

9. Tre Jones - 7/7.5

10. RJ Hampton - 7/7.5

Note: it's very early in the process. A lot of these guys will show more potential as the season goes along. 

I think Ant Man is a chucker. He's also listed at 6'5, meaning he's probably actually 6'4". Too short to guard small forwards. The best you can hope for with him is a Dwayne Wade-lite. 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I think Ant Man is a chucker. He's also listed at 6'5, meaning he's probably actually 6'4". Too short to guard small forwards. The best you can hope for with him is a Dwayne Wade-lite. 

Shockingly, I agree with this take.  But Dwhine had a nuance to his game, even in college, that none of these guys will touch.  IOW, best case is probably closer to a worse-shooting Zack Lavine.

Ew.