Official Game Thread: Rockets at Hawks

[Atlantaholic]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

I like the idea of focusing on their development, but I think the team will be very ugly if we feature those 3 and feed them 35 shots a game.  Like brutally ugly.  I'd give Huerter the major shot responsibility and decrease the responsibility for Cam and Hunter, trying to simplify their responsibilities some and let them enjoy more success in more limited roles, before opening them up more for the last part of the season.  I think if Turner, Crabbe, and Huerter had been available and playing as expected that Cam and Hunter would have been given much smaller responsibilities and sometimes I think that is good for a rookie to be able to focus on a smaller cross-section of responsibilities and see tangible results from that focus.

If those shot volumes come naturally then that is great but if you try to force feed these guys, I don't think it will go well or really help their development.

If we want to win games we need to decrease both Cam's and Hunter's minutes... also VC should never see a single minute outside of garbage time or injuries to our wings. Crabbe should get majority of the minutes at one of the wing spots. 

[NBASupes]

19 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Where do you get WAR stats for NBA?

 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

24 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

We saw this with Kevin and Trae last year, the Hawks put a lot in the hands of their young players. Most would never. The Knicks and Cavs tried it with Knox and Sexton. Sexton had a WAR of -7.4 and Knox had one that was -5.8. To say Cam and Hunter is struggling just isn't the case.

While Hunter is not playing up to his -0.1 WAR expectations, he was a PF in college in a much more simplified role. We use him to defend 2-4 on a nightly basis. He just has a lot more on his plate than he had in college. 

The question is, will this make these guys better, faster? That's the plan. A lot needs to go right. They need to constantly improve daily. Continuing showing high awareness and most importantly, the summer is VITAL for these kids. Even Bruno has a lot of his plate. Our offense isn't easy for a center either but Trae makes it more simple for bigs. 

Trae's next step in his maturation is becoming a better true PG/floor general. 

That is the $100,000 question... Will it make them better or will it overwhelm them?  Cam seems to be all right with it, especially last night defending Harden.  Hunter is the one I'm starting to get worried about.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

That is the $100,000 question... Will it make them better or will it overwhelm them?  Cam seems to be all right with it, especially last night defending Harden.  Hunter is the one I'm starting to get worried about.

Hunter looked great defensively in the 4th quarter on Harden and Gordon. He is still learning how to defend in this league. How refs referee. It's a lot more than most of us think. The NBA is extremely difficult. Considering the minutes we give Hunter, I honestly think he is doing well considering his role and stage of his development. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by NBASupes

[Atlantaholic]

17 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/

Cool, thanks for sharing.

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Hunter looked great defensively in the 4th quarter on Harden and Gordon. He is still learning how to defend in this league. How refs referee. It's a lot more than most of us think. The NBA is extremely difficult. Considering the minutes we give Hunter, I honestly think he is doing well considering his role and stage of his development. 

I think he has been an enormous disapointment but his defense in the 4th was awesome. Hopefully we see more of that. 

[HawkItus]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I like the idea of focusing on their development, but I think the team will be very ugly if we feature those 3 and feed them 35 shots a game.  Like brutally ugly.  I'd give Huerter the major shot responsibility and decrease the responsibility for Cam and Hunter, trying to simplify their responsibilities some and let them enjoy more success in more limited roles, before opening them up more for the last part of the season.  I think if Turner, Crabbe, and Huerter had been available and playing as expected that Cam and Hunter would have been given much smaller responsibilities and sometimes I think that is good for a rookie to be able to focus on a smaller cross-section of responsibilities and see tangible results from that focus.

If those shot volumes come naturally then that is great but if you try to force feed these guys, I don't think it will go well or really help their development.

I can see that, but in my view until we call plays for these guys, we can't properly evaluate them on this current team.  Cam is failing at the catch and shoot stationary role.  Let's give him some curl action and pick and pop just to see how it looks.  Huerter needs more shots period.  Hunter actually seeks the iso from time time, just at the wrong times.  If he knows we are dialing his number and creating mismatches for him, what happens?

[macdaddy]

10 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

Cam is failing at the catch and shoot stationary role.  Let's give him some curl action and pick and pop just to see how it looks.

I agree with this 100%

[Spud2nique]

24 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

I can see that, but in my view until we call plays for these guys, we can't properly evaluate them on this current team.  Cam is failing at the catch and shoot stationary role.  Let's give him some curl action and pick and pop just to see how it looks.  Huerter needs more shots period.  Hunter actually seeks the iso from time time, just at the wrong times.  If he knows we are dialing his number and creating mismatches for him, what happens?

Also, is it possible for Lloyd to draw up more plays that end in the short corner 3 for us. I mean I know it’s much more complex and teams scheme against giving it up but I think with Trae’s dribble drive, we have a huge adv to spread and fire away.

Problem is when we miss, we don’t crash the boards very much.

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

This is what Huerter had to say regarding his role is the offense.  So imagine just how much more difficult it is for the rookies.

Quote

Kevin Huerter admits that it can be hard sometimes to stay engaged in the game with how ball-dominant Young is. Young is fourth in the league in usage rate...With how the Hawks’ offense is engineered, Young is going to have the ball in his hands, and it’s up to everyone else to figure out how to fit in with him. 
“It’s just one of those things though that you say whatever converts to winning basketball. That’s really the goal going into it," said Huerter. "He’s up there with the usage rate, but he’s really good with the ball in his hands. At the end of the day, he’s good. As a teammate, you have to fit into your role, and that’s what winning teams do.”

 

 

I found this snippet interesting regarding how much the offense has evolved throughout the season;

Quote

The Hawks have changed their primary offensive action a few times this year so Huerter’s role has changed. They started the season running lots of high ball screens and then changed to getting him the ball down low off of pin-downs, and now they are using lots of dribble handoffs so Huerter can come down and get the ball on his right hand.

 

[Atlantaholic]

9 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Also, is it possible for Lloyd to draw up more plays that end in the short corner 3 for us. I mean I know it’s much more complex and teams scheme against giving it up but I think with Trae’s dribble drive, we have a huge adv to spread and fire away.

Problem is when we miss, we don’t crash the boards very much.

 

 

Our wings can't hit threes outside of Heurter. 

[Spud2nique]

33 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Our wings can't hit threes outside of Heurter. 

Still, I think reps from those will help us develop moving forward. Cam has a beautiful stroke and Hunter isn’t bad, they just need more reps to get comfortable. If you knew you were only getting the ball a couple times vs a dozen, you tend to tighten up, its human nature. 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, HawkItus said:

I can see that, but in my view until we call plays for these guys, we can't properly evaluate them on this current team.  Cam is failing at the catch and shoot stationary role.  Let's give him some curl action and pick and pop just to see how it looks.  Huerter needs more shots period.  Hunter actually seeks the iso from time time, just at the wrong times.  If he knows we are dialing his number and creating mismatches for him, what happens?

I don't mind trying other things.  I would just do one discrete thing with them in a given game.  Give them some practice time to prepare for that one addition and then run that specific action a few times per game over the course of a week.  But I wouldn't ask them to do all of these things at once and wouldn't force the shots if they don't come.  

[NBASupes]

We do need to remember, LP had Cam guarding Harden full court to wear Harden down. Let's not forget, Cam isn't conditioned yet for that role and to be productive on offense. Let's remember these kids are well.... rookies!

[Thomas]

Know it is pretty obvious but Trae, Kevin and JC are just going to have to be crazy aggressive offensively as starters for some wins. A ton of shots from them. Everybody seems overloaded with their responsibilities and minutes anyway so let our big three let it rip. That recent aggressiveness adjustment has helped Kevin some already. 

[turnermx]

2 hours ago, Thomas said:

Know it is pretty obvious but Trae, Kevin and JC are just going to have to be crazy aggressive offensively as starters for some wins. A ton of shots from them. Everybody seems overloaded with their responsibilities and minutes anyway so let our big three let it rip. That recent aggressiveness adjustment has helped Kevin some already. 

I think Heurter is shying away from contact a bit because he injured his shoulder trying to take Joker's fat *ss .

[AHF]

I don't think Huerter is wired to be 'crazy aggressive' either.  That probably isn't a bad thing in the long run but we absolutely need to find some adjustments to the offense to get him more shots.  He is 7th on the team right now in FGA per minute and definitely 3rd in most dangerous with the ball.  Hopefully that has already happened with his big increase in scoring and rebounding in the limited sample of 2020.

[Spud2nique]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

I don't think Huerter is wired to be 'crazy aggressive' either.  That probably isn't a bad thing in the long run

Ya I agree with this and I actually like it. We (the league) has too many young players chucking up inefficient shots. Huerter loves swinging it and I dig that.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Spud2nique

[AHF]

14 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Ya I agree with this and I actually like it. We (the league) has too many young players chucking up inefficient shots. Huerter loves swinging it and I dig that.

It just means in games like last night where they were leaving guys open and trying their best to stifle the space for Huert that he won't end up putting up 8 3pt attempts just to have that volume.  He'll take the ones he thinks are good shots and move the ball to the open man otherwise.

[NBASupes]

30 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Ya I agree with this and I actually like it. We (the league) has too many young players chucking up inefficient shots. Huerter loves swinging it and I dig that.

Heurter has a terrific mindset as a PDS guy

[REHawksFan]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

We do need to remember, LP had Cam guarding Harden full court to wear Harden down. Let's not forget, Cam isn't conditioned yet for that role and to be productive on offense. Let's remember these kids are well.... rookies!

Been pretty much ignoring all of Cam and Hunter's stats all year. Let em play. Let em learn.  I'll evaluate at the end of year on progress. Not worried about either. 

Too many people seem to think they supposed to be good players right now. Neither are that much worse than Trae was this time a year ago. Now look where Trae is. The real problem is they are both supposed to be developing off the bench this year, not starting and getting 30 min a night.