Collins has to PROVE more! Sorry but the clock starts now...

[kg01]

7 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

What does ISE mean Spudster?

Not to butt in, but .....

It's my personal rant series.  I'm sure you'd love it.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Buzzard said:

What does ISE mean Spudster?

It’s @kg01’s personal rant series.

 

I’m sure you’d love it. 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[macdaddy]

Man I'm just dying to see this team, fully healthy, start next season.    When Collins came back we started playing well but were already well under .500 and still working out rookie kinks.   Would love to see the damage Trae / Collins and all will do with a fresh season.

[JayBirdHawk]

FUTURE OF THE HAWKS 2.0: JOHN COLLINS and projecting Atlanta's supporting cast.

Quote

After watching the film, did you come away more impressed with Collins’ ability, or did you feel like he’s just a lucky dude who benefits from having Young as his point guard?

Vecenie: No, I think Collins is really, ridiculously good. I don’t think I was surprised or more impressed or anything, but he has gotten a lot better in the NBA. Really, he’s gotten a lot better in each of his last six years of development even going back through his last year of high school. He’s just a late bloomer in a real way. Collins is going to make the All-Star Game at some point, and it might be as soon as next year.

And it won’t only be because of Young. It’s a symbiotic relationship between Young and Collins in that they help each other. Young’s pinpoint passing and ability to warp a defense with his ballhandling help Collins, but Collins’ ability to rim run forces a ton of defensive attention away from Young because if you don’t tag Collins on the backside, it’s a dunk. Then, his ability to space the floor and pop out beyond the break from the 3-point arc and knock down shots also really helps Young a lot.

Collins continues to add little things to his game. As you said, the slip actions to cause mismatches with his speed posed a ton of problems for defenses. His ballhandling is legit very good now in a straight line and he can attack defenses off the bounce when they come too heavy on a closeout off of a pick-and-pop. He’s genuinely among the most versatile options off of rolls in the NBA. That’s a skill; that’s not a creation of Young.

And I’ll also just note: I was an enormous fan of the defensive effort he showed this year. It wasn’t just offense anymore. I wouldn’t quite call Collins an average defender yet, but he’s well on his way to that. His lateral agility got much better, and he actually has a chance now to deal with fours.

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In terms of pure value to the Hawks, however, do you think Reddish is more valuable than Collins long-term? If not, should he be?

Vecenie: I think the potential for that exists, and I get what you’re saying here if only because I really liked what Reddish did on the defensive end this season while also showing growth on the offensive end. ...........But for me, Collins and Reddish are just in different tiers. Collins has just showcased so much more at the NBA level. I legitimately think Collins is going to make All-Star Games. I don’t know that we have anything resembling that certainty with Reddish.

https://theathletic.com/1903662/2020/07/02/future-of-the-hawks-2-0-john-collins-and-projecting-atlantas-supporting-cast?source=user-shared-article

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

More engaged on defense - that's what I expect to see from Trae next season.

[Spud2nique]

25 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

More engaged on defense - that's what I expect to see from Trae next season.

Seriously our interior with Collins and A Capela and perimeter with Hunter and Cam. If Trae becomes slightly become I think we become an entirely different animal.

[JayBirdHawk]

22 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Seriously our interior with Collins and A Capela and perimeter with Hunter and Cam. If Trae becomes slightly become I think we become an entirely different animal.

[Spud2nique]

39 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Better* 

 

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

Possible Contract:

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I have a methodology for this, to project out what a player’s future value might be based on his current value and a normal aging curve. With a $109 million cap, Collins’ value for the four years of a potential extension (i.e., starting in 2022-23) comes to $24.8 million a year, a bit south of the $27.25 million max for a player with fewer than six years’ experience...........the deal I definitely could see happening is something closer to the ones Jaylen Brown signed in Boston and Buddy Hield signed in Sacramento: a four-year deal in the neighborhood of $100 million, give or take 10 percent to either side, with millions of it in incentives and no player option.

 

Possible trade options - he doesn't list what we could possibly get back in any trade, so the headline there is a bit misleading. Just Hawks doing due deligence.

Quote

I’m not suggesting they should trade Collins, but would it be wise to at least explore what they could get on the market before locking him into that kind of contract? What level of player do you think they could get in return if he was the main piece on the Hawks’ side?

Second, one thing any responsible executive should do before entering into a contract like this is to quietly explore the player’s trade value, which serves multiple purposes. First, it lets the team know if it can immediately get a player it values more in the same slot. Second, it gives the team two information points for the future. Schlenk will know a lot more about potential free-agent suitors a year from now depending on the interest level in Collins now. And he’ll also know what his “outs” are if the team has second thoughts on an extension a year from now if he wants to move on.

 

Other trades:

Quote

Kirschner: On kind of a related point, what do you think about the Hawks exploring some consolidation trades this offseason? They have Huerter, Reddish and Hunter, who project as dependable starters or, at worse, solid rotation pieces. At what point would you try to turn the potential the front office is selling to fans into established players who can start contending in the Eastern Conference?

Hollinger: Absolutely they should see what’s out there, but I’m a little dubious this road can bear much fruit at the moment. I’m not sure any of their young guys aside from Young and Collins have enough trade value to bring back something worthwhile. Hunter would certainly get 50 cents on the dollar at this point. While Reddish has had intriguing moments and I could see a team falling for Huerter, I have a really hard time seeing either of those guys bringing back proven quality unless it’s with a team in a total rebuild situation. Atlanta is probably better off watering these seeds and seeing whether they can grow into something truly valuable. 

As far as trades go, however, one thing the Hawks should consider is dealing future draft picks. They already did this in the Capela trade (giving up Brooklyn’s first-round pick this year), and it’s something they should keep an eye on going forward. The Hawks have all of their own future firsts as well as a protected 2022 first from Oklahoma City and are also sitting on a surfeit of second-round picks.

In terms of targets, the one guy Atlanta should have on its radar is Bradley Beal, who is under contract with Washington and making no noise about leaving, but he would fit this team perfectly..............the other player they should look into is Hield. His contract is on the generous side after a tough year with the Kings this season, but he’s a prolific 3-point shooter who could terrorize opponents from the weak side of a Young-Capela or Young-Collins pick-and-roll. He might not even cost that much in terms of asset capital.

Most of the other players they could trade for aren’t any better than the options they could pursue in free agency, which as the name implies is free and allows the Hawks to keep their assets for the future.

 

[Peoriabird]

I just don't know what would be the incentive to make a trade at all.  All of the players including Trae are undervalued around the league.  I don't understand the urge to trade for a 27 plus year old Bradley Beal for big money in that he probably won't gel with the current roster and might start to decline soon.  The team is fine as is and $25 mil for a player like Collins should be a no brainer move.

[Spud2nique]

Pay Collins  

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

Pay Collins  

Its not complicated!

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

With no sports these guys are creating all kinds of 'stuff - radial plot visualization'

 

 

[Spud2nique]

☝ is a tool I kid.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

With Collins at the four, it will be intriguing to see if the Hawks switch things 1-4 or keep Collins inside as a helper by instructing all their players to stay disciplined and fight through screens. The Hawks may be more aggressive and experimental if Capela is supported from the wing positions by Reddish and Hunter. Either way, the options to play more than one way are clearly there now, and Collins’ is arguably a lot better suited as a rotator as opposed to a core big man defensive role. Below is a compilation of some of his timing blocks.