Official Game Thread: Magic at Hawks

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, Thomas said:

Thought Trae, Jeff, Cam, JC and Bruno all had their good moments and showed some of what we can do. Nobody in our short rotation can have an off night though as we already know.

This^. 

[bleachkit]

2 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Thought Trae, Jeff, Cam, JC and Bruno all had their good moments and showed some of what we can do. Nobody in our short rotation can have an off night though as we already know.

We have be on our A game to even sniff a W.

[Lurker]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It's not that those guys shouldn't get as many minutes.  They just can't get that many minutes together vs certain types of teams. If that lineup doesn't have it going offensively, they can't play extended minutes with each other.

Trae and Huerter are defensive negatives.  Collins is a defensive negative if he has to play the 5.  Hunter is a defensive negative ( at least from a rebounding standpoint ), if he has to play the 4.   Cam ( statistically ) is a defensive negative, but his positive defensive plays immediately turn into points.

Collins needs to play the 4 as much as possible.  Hunter needs to play the 3 as much as possible.  Cam can play both the 2 and the 3.   Huerter needs to strictly play the 2.  

We have Bruno, Dedmon, and Jones who can play the 5.  

Coach just has this obsession for playing his 5 guys, and it's a no-go against any team more physical than they are.

I actually agree with Supes, Collins is a better 5 overall defensively than 4 outside of boarding unless the 5 that's in the game can take you off the dribble. Boarding is only one small part defensively to playing defense.

4's take Collins off the dribble regularly...he is better at the 5 all around outside of boarding and boarding isn't the only thing you worry about on defense.

Reality is, Collins might be a bench player on a winning team as he's a misfit player in lineups.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Lurker

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It's not that those guys shouldn't get as many minutes.  They just can't get that many minutes together vs certain types of teams. If that lineup doesn't have it going offensively, they can't play extended minutes with each other.

Trae and Huerter are defensive negatives.  Collins is a defensive negative if he has to play the 5.  Hunter is a defensive negative ( at least from a rebounding standpoint ), if he has to play the 4.   Cam ( statistically ) is a defensive negative, but his positive defensive plays immediately turn into points.

Collins needs to play the 4 as much as possible.  Hunter needs to play the 3 as much as possible.  Cam can play both the 2 and the 3.   Huerter needs to strictly play the 2.  

We have Bruno, Dedmon, and Jones who can play the 5.  

Coach just has this obsession for playing his 5 guys, and it's a no-go against any team more physical than they are.

IMO, Pierce may not be a good coach but he’s still a coach.  Deep down, he wants to do what will help him win.  My guess is, this core 5 thing is a mandate from above him.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I agree with a part of it. I just don't think that guy is Bruno at this time as you do but at times that guy is. In this case, I would have liked to see Bruno 

Of the bigs we have on the team that are active, that guy is Bruno. 

Coach likes Dedmon, so he'll get the minutes. When Capela becomes active, Bruno will probably rack up the DNPs ( even though he shouldn't ).

[TheNorthCydeRises]

26 minutes ago, Plainview1981 said:

Schlenk’s moves haven’t amounted to anything as of yet.

It's made us more competitive.  With Teague leading the 2nd unit, you don't see the crazy blowouts that we were suffering earlier in the year.  Then again, those games were without Collins too.

[JayBirdHawk]

30 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

The small lineups causes all kinds of problems from a defensive standpoint.  Even the GM saw it.

Whether it be Bruno - Collins . . Jones - Collins . . Jones - Bruno . . . the Hawks pretty much have little choice but to stay with bigger lineups.  That way, if we're shooting bricks, maybe one of the bigs can grab an offensive rebound and get a put back score, like Orlando did on countless occasions tonight.

But let's stick with this Core 5 thing, and hope those guys become tough enough to play against lineups much bigger and stronger than they are.

Jones is useless!

[terrell]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

IMO, Pierce may not be a good coach but he’s still a coach.  Deep down, he wants to do what will help him win.  My guess is, this core 5 thing is a mandate from above him.  

THey might be trying to see who stays and who eventually gets moved for Vet players..We probably wont keep all of the "core 5' players plus another draft pick longterm.... 

[terrell]

9 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It's made us more competitive.  With Teague leading the 2nd unit, you don't see the crazy blowouts that we were suffering earlier in the year.  Then again, those games were without Collins too.

2-2 after the break..Pretty good for a team that cant play defense yet. lol..

[marco102]

I wish they would have given Cam more shots in the fourth.  Trae was clearly gassed.  Heurter's in a slump. It happens.  Yes, I do think Cam should be the starter eventually based on his defense.  

Hated the loss, but excited to see Cam playing so well. His man defense appears to be slipping a bit. Earlier in the season no way Fournier gets past him.  

John had a good game.  Trae all things considered had a good game. You could tell he was running out of gas in the fourth. 

De'Andre has strung together some good games.  This was a growing pains game.  He's really picked up his rebounding lately.

Bruno had a very good game. Loeved his defense against Vuec.

I'll also add the defense was Putrid.  Capella needs to get healthy quickly. I need him to help these guys at least understand how to communicate on defense.

Edited February 27, 2020 by marco102

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I actually agree with Supes, Collins is a better 5 overall defensively than 4 outside of boarding unless the 5 that's in the game can take you off the dribble. Boarding is only one small part defensively to playing defense.

4's take Collins off the dribble regularly...he is better at the 5 all around outside of boarding and boarding isn't the only thing you worry about on defense.

Reality is, Collins might be a bench player on a winning team as he's a misfit player in lineups.

Boarding is the last part of a defensive possession.  If you don't secure the rebound, the other team has you all out of position and can possibly score the basketball.

Playing Collins at the 5 not only affects him, it affects the smaller player playing at the 4, and possibly an even smaller player playing at the 3 or 2.

That lineup has to scramble to play defense, which is why they get caught out of position so much.

 

As for rebounding . . . Dwyane Wade said it best last night on the TNT post game show.

"No Rebounds . . No Rings"

[enrique]

A moment of defense...

 

 

[High5]

Tonight was an example of bad small usage in the 4th. LP maybe should have never gone to it at all, but he definitely should have pulled the plug in a hurry as soon as the game started going south. Unfortunately we're almost never going to win a game with Trae going that cold. He's not coming out and he's not going to stop shooting. 

[Spud2nique]

7 hours ago, Thomas said:

Agreed. Already a good start for Bruno tonight.

Dang came up ☝ short of double digit boards in 22 min. Good effort again from him.

[Spud2nique]

Trae and Collins brought it but the supporting cast needs to be more consistent and productive. Here’s looking at Hunter and Huerter. Both have a lot of ability but crazy consistent. Cam’s D is always a highlight just waiting to happen. One play he almost have a breakaway but Fournier turned it into a free throw jumper.

 

Leta get ready for the Kyrieless Nets next! Let get back to our recent winning ways at home.

 

GO HAWKS!!!

 

Ps The Trae blocking of Mo was straight out of the circus Mo got mad and had one of his best games as a pro in limited time. Teague blocked him too Then he just started hitting every 3 he took. He finally got pissed. 

[RedDawg#8]

The core 5 lineup, all things considered, has been our most successful group against most opponents as of late. Big teams, small teams, you name it, it has been more effective than other lineups 
 

The key to making it work as I see it is when we go to the 1-2-2 zone with Cam out front and Trae and Kev in help position on the wings 

Tonight, Graham was on the court a lot in that alignment for us. As well as Teague but that’s typical. Graham has been playing more and more as of late and generally doing ok. Which leads me to believe:
I don’t think Bembry is injured at all. I think he is silently being shut down for the rest of the year. I think between the trade rumors and the obvious core 5 hierarchy, he sees his days as numbered here and doesn’t want to lay it on the line for the Hawks anymore. My conspiracy theory

Bruno played well tonight and has earned minutes going forward.

If Hunter hits half of his open shots we win this game. Period

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by RedDawg#8

[JayBirdHawk]

9 hours ago, marco102 said:

I wish they would have given Cam more shots in the fourth.  Trae was clearly gassed.  Heurter's in a slump. It happens.  Yes, I do think Cam should be the starter eventually based on his defense.  

Hated the loss, but excited to see Cam playing so well. His man defense appears to be slipping a bit. Earlier in the season no way Fournier gets past him.  

A couple of times he gambled and Fournier went by him since he was out of position on the gamble.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

The core 5 lineup, all things considered, has been our most successful group against most opponents as of late. Big teams, small teams, you name it, it has been more effective than other lineups 
 

The key to making it work as I see it is when we go to the 1-2-2 zone with Cam out front and Trae and Kev in help position on the wings 

Tonight, Graham was on the court a lot in that alignment for us. As well as Teague but that’s typical. Graham has been playing more and more as of late and generally doing ok. Which leads me to believe:
I don’t think Bembry is injured at all. I think he is silently being shut down for the rest of the year. I think between the trade rumors and the obvious core 5 hierarchy, he sees his days as numbered here and doesn’t want to lay it on the line for the Hawks anymore. My conspiracy theory

Bruno played well tonight and has earned minutes going forward.

If Hunter hits half of his open shots we win this game. Period

 

Is that lineup successful because they play well as a unit?  Or are they successful only when Trae gets red hot and takes over a game?

Case in point, Trae's 50 point game vs Miami.  The Core 5 played very well in that game together.  But it was definitely powered by Trae's shooting.

http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20200220&game=MIAATL

 

Over the entire year, that lineup is a wash vs our opponents ( -0.3 pts )

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

Trae's effort on the deflection that leads to the dunk .

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

When you look at the 2-man lineups of each player, I wonder which guy our "Core 5" plays best with.   Sort these 2-man lineups by points, seeing that's the main stat that successful lineups are based off of.

 

Reddish:  https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reddica01/lineups/2020

Young:    https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/y/youngtr01/lineups/2020

Huerter:  https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/huertke01/lineups/2020

Hunter:   https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/huntede01/lineups/2020

Collins:   https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/collijo01/lineups/2020