Official Game Thread: Trail Blazers at Hawks

[lethalweapon3]

“Terry, we need to talk about your flair.”

 

Well, they say the sky’s the limit. And, to me, that’s really true. But, my friend, you have seen nothin’. Just wait ‘til Trae gets through.

It’s well established that statistically, and as per the eye test, Trae Young has been the worst defensive point guard in this national association of professional basketball. Unlike many subpar defenders, Young’s blistering offense makes him a net positive on an Atlanta Hawks squad that would struggle for 48 entire minutes without him. But ranking #493 out of 494 NBA players (thank you, Brad Beal) by defensive metrics draws out the deTraectors like nothing else.

The good news is that an NBA star, in his second pro season, someone as reviled for his defense as he had been revered for his offense is far from unprecedented. If Kyrie Irving was in town yesterday with the Nets, and if Damian Lillard was here tonight with his Portland Trail Blazers (7:30 PM Eastern, Fox Sports Southeast and 103.3 FM in ATL, NBC Sports Northwest in PTL), they would concur wholeheartedly.

“Damian Lillard’s defense has been a topic for the wrong reasons since joining the Portland Trail Blazers,” scribed Bryant Knox for some Bleacher Report content. “Coming from a small school, people recognized his defensive deficiencies would be his Achilles heel in the NBA.” Ah, so that’s the issue. Small school. Darn you, Weber State!

Knox continued in his blog post, “In 2014-15, it’s still a problem.” Oh, well come on, Mr. Dame Time! Isn’t this, like, the start of your third NBA season, already? Do I have to resort to tapping the wrist where my watch is supposed to be? You’re already 24, for Nique’s sake! Get out there and guard somebody, you “guard,” you! Time’s a wastin’!

In the half-decade since, at our disposal we have been granted a plethora of statistical defensive metrics to help confirm, or challenge, what we as fans and pundits witness on the hardwood. Those developments have only served to make us even more impatient, more damning, of the teenaged and newly drinking-aged set of NBA upstarts.

Being a perpetual minus on the court can be managed in the grander context of team hoops. But these days, us fans can identify the most minus-y minuses out there. When it’s somebody we’re not wild about, we can keep actual figures in our bag when it’s time to dig at his fans. “How can the worst defensive players in the history of the NBA be All-Stars?” You can be a big loser, or a weak link, in some respects. Just don’t be The Biggest, or The Weakest, lest you find dismissive critics who are more than happy to bid you, “Goodbye!”

In that half-decade, James Harden has gone from YouTube laughingstock for his defensive nonchalance to an ex-MVP whose most critiqued defensiveness is directed at other All-Stars making fun of him not passing the ball. Once you get the teammates around you that accommodate your shortcomings, and you’re given the room to leave indelible offensive moments in our collective consciousness at playoff time, poof! Your defensive Debbie Downers have disappeared, as if it took the snap of Thanos’ fingers.

Kyrie had LeBron come home, and he hit The Shot that secured Cleveland its first pro championship since, like, the Eisenhower administration. From that point on, has anyone questioned aloud whether he can guard a chair? Big Game Dame waved bye-bye to Harden, Dwight and the Rockets in 2014, and when his buzzer-beater dispatched Russ, PG and the Thunder in 2019, his defensive pot-shot artists seemed to hit the exits with them.

Young needs not to go worst-to-first anytime soon. He just has to work towards getting his name off Page 13. Unlucky Page 13 on ESPN’s Defensive Real Plus/Minus (DRPM) ratings site is where you find Beal and, one spot above Young, Anfernee Simons, the prep-school-faced bench guard who is getting a splurge in playing time for the Blazers (26-34) with the injury to Lillard (groin, probably out through Monday’s end to their road trip in Orlando) and the alleviating deadline trade of Kent Bazemore to Sacramento.

Page 11 is where you’ll find Kyrie. These days, Damian’s hiding out as a Page 10 guy. If PIPM’s your thing, and you sort from bottom-to-top on D-PIPM, there are the usual suspects (Trae, Brad, Half-Penny) right at the “top”. But you’ve got to take the effort to scroll down in order to find Lillard (18^th-worst D-PIPM). Kyrie and Dame are still net-negatives, defensively. But absolutely nobody cares, not anymore.

Accomplishments on big stages with the world’s eyes upon you help a ton. Teammates that have the sensibilities to know how to provide you adequate cover on that end of the floor are a big deal. Competent coaching, developmental, and managerial staffs that don’t give up on you go a long way. But the first big step for going from The Worst to Not Quite That Bad begins with you, the player, and your will to get better.

“We’ve gotta get stops!” has been a mantra Trae has used at every opportunity in front of a mic since the Hawks returned from the All-Star Break. He’s not merely trying to speak French by saying, “we.” His awareness of how to avoid getting caught in space, or woefully out of position on pick-and-rolls, is improving. He stands out when he’s actively fighting for strips around the rim, or hounding ballhandlers as the shot clock nears expiration.

As @Cwell commented yesterday, “Trae with the CLAMPS!! Lol”. Hawks fans are as vociferous and joyful in noting Trae’s defensive hustle, especially when it leads to a “stop,” as they are when he cans a logo-distance jumper.

Much like Lillard (NBA-high 37.0 MPG, career-high 7.9 APG and 29.5 PPG) in his early seasons, one sign of Trae’s commitment to improve in many aspects is coming at the free throw line (91.7 FT% on 10.9 FTAs/game in February; 82.9 FT% on 5.1 attempts last season). Just a modicum of measurable improvement and consistency on the defensive end (119.5 D-Rating in losses this season, 108.1 in wins) gives his Hawks chances to win, and his slovenly slanderers a spray of Haters-B-Gone.

Young understands he doesn’t necessarily have to get all the steals, blocks and boards that sweeten up the boxscores. But the stat at the end of his boxscore line will look better when he’s thinking of his duties on the defensive side of the ball, not the myriad #SCTop10 opportunities that await his team on the other end.

Atlanta (18-43) has gone 3-2 since the Break, and coincidentally, Young has been zero-or-better on the plus-minus figure in four of the Hawks’ past five games. His +14 showing as the Hawks turned up the defensive heat in the final quarter last night and flamed the Nets, 141-118, was his best in over a month, despite offensive output that was subpar for his typical mastery (6-for-18 FGs).

Also once hassled as a young Hawks starter for his struggles defending pick-and-rolls, Jeff Teague remembers his All-Star run, where he drew praise not merely for his uptick in scoring but for dogged defensive plays that led to highlight transition buckets. He provided a glimpse of the not-all-distant past with his cherry-on-top dunk off a mid-court theft in the closing minutes of Friday’s win over Brooklyn.

When Jeff was a positive plus-minus, the Hawks were successful on the scoreboard. Similarly, Atlanta is 11-0 this season when Young turns in a +8 or better in a game. Anything +1 or worse, his Hawks are a diametric 0-34.

Being an offensive supernova, but The Worst of the worst defensively, leaves you perceived as an NBA novelty act, categorized with the D’Angelo Russells and Lou Williamses of the world. The league’s Top 20 players for RPM generally co-align with MVP and MIP finalists (hello there, Dennis). While there are plenty of great two-way players in that mix, there are stars – Luka, Russ, Damian, throw in Curry and Kyrie if they were healthier – who are just slight negatives in the DRPM column. In the years to come, as Trae transforms from The Worst to just Bad, like his more accomplished peers, he’s going to find himself with a dedicated rung on the MVP Ladder.

Trae doesn’t have to aim for DPOY glories. Halfway decent isn’t even required. When it comes to defense, our Hawks simply need him to be Bad. Come on, you know. Once he makes the Leap from The Worst to Bad, the whole world will have to answer, right then. Just to tell you, once again.

 

Happy Leap Day! Happy HBCU Night! Go United! And Let’s Go Hawks!

~lw3

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

It's a Leap Year Game!

I wonder how many of these have the Hawks played in over the last 20 years!

[bleachkit]

Can we finally play well on the second night of a back to back? No excuses, get it done.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Can we finally play well on the second night of a back to back? No excuses, get it done.

We have not feared well in back to backs at all.

 

[Spud2nique]

29 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

we

You had me at we we monsier! And also...more flair for Stotts! lw3 slayin again!

Ya not many stars ️ are two way stars and nobody seems to care. Something tells me Trae does and this summer with shore up that D. Zeke Young, Trae Nash, Trae Payton? Do we dare...

 

Happy leap year and happy birthday’s to Ja Rule and Tony Robbins! Not my guys or anything google happen to mention it there on the bottom line.

Lets make it 2 amazing games shall we, I had fun last night! 
 

HAWKS ARE FAVORED!!!! RESPECT  

Hawks -1.5  o/u 238.5 (they expect nobody to play defense tonight lol)

 

Encore for Cam and Collins? Or do we get a nutty nimbers night from Trae? Does baby Kawhi come alive? Exciting times! Enjoy the process! These are the days folks!

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We

Bird speaks French too!  

Ooooohhh okkkkaayyyy

[JayBirdHawk]

Who starts at Center vs Whiteside? Collins or Bruno.

Whiteside likes staying in the paint on PnR defense, would the same strategy of JC shooting 3s like last night be deployed? Will JC have the legs to battle for boards?

[lethalweapon3]

Travel Advisory update part Deux:

Marathon streets ought to clear up by about 4 PM (what a finish by the men, back there behind The Farm!). But if you absolutely must drive all the way into town for tonight's game, you're gonna want to find your parking spot very early and hang out. Otherwise, definitely grab your Breeze Cards and do the MARTA park and ride!

Supercross is gonna pack The Benz to the gills all this evening, events starting around 4:30 PM. The Atlanta Auto Show weekend at GWCC peaks today as well. But, what about scarves? Throw in the folks hanging out at watering holes to see Atlanta United's game in Nashville SC's MLS debut, and you've got quite a stew this evening!

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

Former Atlanta Hawk Chucky Brown turns 52 today (nice jersey # choice, Chucky!)! And Augusta, Georgia-area native Vonteego Cummings is 44!

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It's a Leap Year Game!

I wonder how many of these have the Hawks played in over the last 20 years!

Fiddling with the bball-index Team Game Finder I caught five of them since the Hawks moved here from St. Louis.

Last Leap Day Game was 2012, Hawks lost to the visiting Warriors 85-82, a score which makes me feel extra-old. Steph came off the bench and played like 3 seconds. Klay wasn't starting yet, either, but the great Dominic McGuire sure was!

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201202290ATL.html

 

Last Leap Day Win was 2008. 99-93 win over Jamal Crawford's Knicks, behind J-Smoove's 25 & 9 (yes, he hit a three! and he only took one more!). Yes, David Lee played against the Hawks here on Leap Day in both 2008 and 2012.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200802290ATL.html

 

Before that, I have to go all the way back to 1980. John Drew outlasted Foots Walker and the Cleveland Cavaliers in OT.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198002290ATL.html

 

In 1976, Drew's Hawks made a late charge but lost to a Trail Blazers team that was coached by Lenny Wilkens, but was without Bill Walton. Lenny would've loved to have stuck around for one more season in Portland, but he made out okay. One of the final Hawks games coached by Fitzsimmons, who got canned the next month after a Cotton-pickin' 10-game skid.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/197602290POR.html

 

Rocking the Lime-and-Blue in 1972, Pistol Pete and the Hawks went to Buffalo and beat former Hawk star Mahdi Abdul-Rahman (former Walt Hazzard), who got traded up there. Future Hawk Randy "Iron Man" Smith was on that Bravos squad.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/197202290BUF.html

 

~lw3

[High5]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Who starts at Center vs Whiteside? Collins or Bruno.

Whiteside likes staying in the paint on PnR defense, would the same strategy of JC shooting 3s like last night be deployed? Will JC have the legs to battle for boards?

I would give John a chance to abuse the matchup and ride the momentum from last night. Bring in Bruno if Whiteside becomes a problem.

[Dnice]

I remember Cummings out of Thompson up the road...good trivia. 

[hawkman]

4 minutes ago, Dnice said:

I remember Cummings out of Thompson up the road...good trivia. 

Went to go see him and Antrone Lee in high school. Vonteego was pulling up right past half court and scored with ease. He was good at Pitt and had a brief stay in the NBA. 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I will be in attendance for tonight’s game!!! Le’go Hawks!!!

[NBASupes]

Whiteside will be a challenge but he has no court vision, we should double him at all times.

[Thomas]

1 hour ago, lethalweapon3 said:

Before that, I have to go all the way back to 1980. John Drew outlasted Foots Walker and the Cleveland Cavaliers in OT.

Thank you. That revived memory is just priceless for me. There were those smoking games where Drew couldn't miss and if he did the offensive rebound was his and he still scored.

[enrique]

4 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

“Terry, we need to talk about your flair.”

 

Well, they say the sky’s the limit. And, to me, that’s really true. But, my friend, you have seen nothin’. Just wait ‘til Trae gets through.

It’s well established that statistically, and as per the eye test, Trae Young has been the worst defensive point guard in this national association of professional basketball. Unlike many subpar defenders, Young’s blistering offense makes him a net positive on an Atlanta Hawks squad that would struggle for 48 entire minutes without him. But ranking #493 out of 494 NBA players (thank you, Brad Beal) by defensive metrics draws out the deTraectors like nothing else.

The good news is that an NBA star, in his second pro season, someone as reviled for his defense as he had been revered for his offense is far from unprecedented. If Kyrie Irving was in town yesterday with the Nets, and if Damian Lillard was here tonight with his Portland Trail Blazers (7:30 PM Eastern, Fox Sports Southeast and 103.3 FM in ATL, NBC Sports Northwest in PTL), they would concur wholeheartedly.

“Damian Lillard’s defense has been a topic for the wrong reasons since joining the Portland Trail Blazers,” scribed Bryant Knox for some Bleacher Report content. “Coming from a small school, people recognized his defensive deficiencies would be his Achilles heel in the NBA.” Ah, so that’s the issue. Small school. Darn you, Weber State!

Knox continued in his blog post, “In 2014-15, it’s still a problem.” Oh, well come on, Mr. Dame Time! Isn’t this, like, the start of your third NBA season, already? Do I have to resort to tapping the wrist where my watch is supposed to be? You’re already 24, for Nique’s sake! Get out there and guard somebody, you “guard,” you! Time’s a wastin’!

In the half-decade since, at our disposal we have been granted a plethora of statistical defensive metrics to help confirm, or challenge, what we as fans and pundits witness on the hardwood. Those developments have only served to make us even more impatient, more damning, of the teenaged and newly drinking-aged set of NBA upstarts.

Being a perpetual minus on the court can be managed in the grander context of team hoops. But these days, us fans can identify the most minus-y minuses out there. When it’s somebody we’re not wild about, we can keep actual figures in our bag when it’s time to dig at his fans. “How can the worst defensive players in the history of the NBA be All-Stars?” You can be a big loser, or a weak link, in some respects. Just don’t be The Biggest, or The Weakest, lest you find dismissive critics who are more than happy to bid you, “Goodbye!”

In that half-decade, James Harden has gone from YouTube laughingstock for his defensive nonchalance to an ex-MVP whose most critiqued defensiveness is directed at other All-Stars making fun of him not passing the ball. Once you get the teammates around you that accommodate your shortcomings, and you’re given the room to leave indelible offensive moments in our collective consciousness at playoff time, poof! Your defensive Debbie Downers have disappeared, as if it took the snap of Thanos’ fingers.

Kyrie had LeBron come home, and he hit The Shot that secured Cleveland its first pro championship since, like, the Eisenhower administration. From that point on, has anyone questioned aloud whether he can guard a chair? Big Game Dame waved bye-bye to Harden, Dwight and the Rockets in 2014, and when his buzzer-beater dispatched Russ, PG and the Thunder in 2019, his defensive pot-shot artists seemed to hit the exits with them.

Young needs not to go worst-to-first anytime soon. He just has to work towards getting his name off Page 13. Unlucky Page 13 on ESPN’s Defensive Real Plus/Minus (DRPM) ratings site is where you find Beal and, one spot above Young, Anfernee Simons, the prep-school-faced bench guard who is getting a splurge in playing time for the Blazers (26-34) with the injury to Lillard (groin, probably out through Monday’s end to their road trip in Orlando) and the alleviating deadline trade of Kent Bazemore to Sacramento.

Page 11 is where you’ll find Kyrie. These days, Damian’s hiding out as a Page 10 guy. If PIPM’s your thing, and you sort from bottom-to-top on D-PIPM, there are the usual suspects (Trae, Brad, Half-Penny) right at the “top”. But you’ve got to take the effort to scroll down in order to find Lillard (18^th-worst D-PIPM). Kyrie and Dame are still net-negatives, defensively. But absolutely nobody cares, not anymore.

Accomplishments on big stages with the world’s eyes upon you help a ton. Teammates that have the sensibilities to know how to provide you adequate cover on that end of the floor are a big deal. Competent coaching, developmental, and managerial staffs that don’t give up on you go a long way. But the first big step for going from The Worst to Not Quite That Bad begins with you, the player, and your will to get better.

“We’ve gotta get stops!” has been a mantra Trae has used at every opportunity in front of a mic since the Hawks returned from the All-Star Break. He’s not merely trying to speak French by saying, “we.” His awareness of how to avoid getting caught in space, or woefully out of position on pick-and-rolls, is improving. He stands out when he’s actively fighting for strips around the rim, or hounding ballhandlers as the shot clock nears expiration.

As @Cwell commented yesterday, “Trae with the CLAMPS!! Lol”. Hawks fans are as vociferous and joyful in noting Trae’s defensive hustle, especially when it leads to a “stop,” as they are when he cans a logo-distance jumper.

Much like Lillard (NBA-high 37.0 MPG, career-high 7.9 APG and 29.5 PPG) in his early seasons, one sign of Trae’s commitment to improve in many aspects is coming at the free throw line (91.7 FT% on 10.9 FTAs/game in February; 82.9 FT% on 5.1 attempts last season). Just a modicum of measurable improvement and consistency on the defensive end (119.5 D-Rating in losses this season, 108.1 in wins) gives his Hawks chances to win, and his slovenly slanderers a spray of Haters-B-Gone.

Young understands he doesn’t necessarily have to get all the steals, blocks and boards that sweeten up the boxscores. But the stat at the end of his boxscore line will look better when he’s thinking of his duties on the defensive side of the ball, not the myriad #SCTop10 opportunities that await his team on the other end.

Atlanta (18-43) has gone 3-2 since the Break, and coincidentally, Young has been zero-or-better on the plus-minus figure in four of the Hawks’ past five games. His +14 showing as the Hawks turned up the defensive heat in the final quarter last night and flamed the Nets, 141-118, was his best in over a month, despite offensive output that was subpar for his typical mastery (6-for-18 FGs).

Also once hassled as a young Hawks starter for his struggles defending pick-and-rolls, Jeff Teague remembers his All-Star run, where he drew praise not merely for his uptick in scoring but for dogged defensive plays that led to highlight transition buckets. He provided a glimpse of the not-all-distant past with his cherry-on-top dunk off a mid-court theft in the closing minutes of Friday’s win over Brooklyn.

When Jeff was a positive plus-minus, the Hawks were successful on the scoreboard. Similarly, Atlanta is 11-0 this season when Young turns in a +8 or better in a game. Anything +1 or worse, his Hawks are a diametric 0-34.

Being an offensive supernova, but The Worst of the worst defensively, leaves you perceived as an NBA novelty act, categorized with the D’Angelo Russells and Lou Williamses of the world. The league’s Top 20 players for RPM generally co-align with MVP and MIP finalists (hello there, Dennis). While there are plenty of great two-way players in that mix, there are stars – Luka, Russ, Damian, throw in Curry and Kyrie if they were healthier – who are just slight negatives in the DRPM column. In the years to come, as Trae transforms from The Worst to just Bad, like his more accomplished peers, he’s going to find himself with a dedicated rung on the MVP Ladder.

Trae doesn’t have to aim for DPOY glories. Halfway decent isn’t even required. When it comes to defense, our Hawks simply need him to be Bad. Come on, you know. Once he makes the Leap from The Worst to Bad, the whole world will have to answer, right then. Just to tell you, once again.

 

Happy Leap Day! Happy HBCU Night! Go United! And Let’s Go Hawks!

~lw3

Awesome as always!!!! My only beef Is that Trae’s the “worst” defender in the NBA is only really using RAPM. There are many other stats that place him well above Beal, IT, and others. Bottom 30 defender for sure. Worst? No. Needs significant improvement? Absolutely!!! Just have decided not to accept that narrative anymore without stating there are other metrics to consider besides ESPN. 

46 minutes ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

I will be in attendance for tonight’s game!!! Le’go Hawks!!!

Jealous!!!!

[benhillboy]

I’m all about 2-way Killa Cam.  Take a bow @NBASupes, you courageously  planted a flag when many were harshly criticizing his college stats.  Props to anyone else who predicted his rapid ascension but Supes attached his damn rep to it.  Cam’s too confident, talented, and tooled up to regress now.  He may struggle matched up with Ariza-types with great size and IQ but he should eat Baze alive.

[Spud2nique]

36 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Props to anyone else who predicted his rapid ascension but Supes attached his damn rep to it.

Well I bought a Cam jersey in July. Honestly though I thought we was getting Tmac or a bigger Ray Allen...not Scottie Pippen/Kobe! Ya, I said it I meant it! I’ll say it again the defense is still a huge surprise to me. Honestly, stereotypically looking at Cam, his appearance tends to make you think he doesn’t D up due to an ultra smooth O game.