Top 25 players under 25 hoopshype

[JayBirdHawk]

9 minutes ago, kg01 said:

It was actually @JayBirdHawk that started the rumor.  Haha.  I ain't scared-a birds like Trae.

What'd I do. .

[benhillboy]

I’d actually take 6 of the guys below Trae  over him but not Towns or Mitchell.  

[Spud2nique]

21 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

I’d actually take 6 of the guys below Trae  over him but not Towns or Mitchell.  

6???? That are under 25, no way. I challenge you to name the 6. Lol

[macdaddy]

If teams are starting from scratch and get to pick one player off this list each i think it goes:

Zion

Luka

Trae

Tatum

No idea who would go fifth. 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

If teams are starting from scratch and get to pick one player off this list each i think it goes:

Zion

Luka

Trae

Tatum

No idea who would go fifth. 

INGRAM!

- @sturt

 

  

[benhillboy]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

6???? That are under 25, no way. I challenge you to name the 6. Lol

SGA: helped lead 2 different teams to the playoffs that no one thought much of.  Defends and gets to the rack with ease.

Zion: size and efficiency, post monster, love his makeup 

Ja: Love his pacing and makeup, very high physicality for his size, easily dominated Trae twice.

Devin Booker: I know this is the most questionable but I think he can score at more levels/ more ways than Trae and there’s a capable defender hiding there somewhere with the right situation 

Bam: career 118 offensive rating and 105 defensive rating.  By all accounts is pretty insane but in a good way.

Jayson Tatum: I actually think he’s fallen off from his rookie campaign despite the media fawning all over him because he can hit a contested step back three (ugh).  In his best role (third option on a contender) he’s basically flawless IMO.  On and off ball on both sides.

I think Trae’s optimal role to have a consistent positive impact on team point differential  is 24 minutes off the bench. I realize you’re about to block me lol.

[sturt]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

INGRAM!

- @sturt

 

  

 

 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, benhillboy said:

Zion: size and efficiency, post monster, love his makeup 

Ja: Love his pacing and makeup, very high physicality for his size, easily dominated Trae twice.

You got 2/6... that’s even up for debate.

 

 

1 hour ago, benhillboy said:

I think Trae’s optimal role to have a consistent positive impact on team point differential  is 24 minutes off the bench. I realize you’re about to block me lol.

 

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, benhillboy said:

I think Trae’s optimal role to have a consistent positive impact on team point differential  is 24 minutes off the bench. I realize you’re about to block me lol.

How do you put a guy who's an elite shooter, elite passer, great scorer in the lane on the bench?   I know you're thinking of him as Jamal crawford or lou williams because of his D but is offensive ability and specifically his passing ability is so much greater than those guys you can't put him on the bench. 

[kg01]

Just now, macdaddy said:

How do you put a guy who's an elite shooter, elite passer, great scorer in the lane on the bench?   I know you're thinking of him as Jamal crawford or lou williams because of his D but is offensive ability and specifically his passing ability is so much greater than those guys you can't put him on the bench. 

In fairness, he also suggested SGA "helped" lead two teams to the playoffs.  As if Chris Paul was allowing a rookie to "help" him lead anything.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, benhillboy said:

I think Trae’s optimal role to have a consistent positive impact on team point differential  is 24 minutes off the bench. I realize you’re about to block me lol.

[benhillboy]

On 3/18/2020 at 5:43 PM, kg01 said:

In fairness, he also suggested SGA "helped" lead two teams to the playoffs.  As if Chris Paul was allowing a rookie to "help" him lead anything.

CP3 wasn’t in LA last season like SGA was.  There were no All Stars there and only Harrell played 82 games along with him as he started 73 as a rookie combo guard.  Helping them get to the playoffs in the West in that capacity is wildly impressive don’t you agree?

[benhillboy]

On 3/18/2020 at 5:08 PM, Spud2nique said:

You got 2/6... that’s even up for debate.

 

 

So you didn’t block me lol.

I’ll just never be that impressed with Trae outside the vision, passing touch, and float game.  Granted they’re all ridiculously insane.  I actually think he leaves a fair amount of “good passes” on the table because of his inability to reposition and receive.  
 

I bleed red and yellow (I don’t know nothing about granite gray and volt lol), I try damn hard to get behind the kid, I just can’t man.  Y’all help me.

[Spud2nique]

10 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

So you didn’t block me lol.

I’ll just never be that impressed with Trae outside the vision, passing touch, and float game.  Granted they’re all ridiculously insane.  I actually think he leaves a fair amount of “good passes” on the table because of his inability to reposition and receive.  
 

I bleed red and yellow (I don’t know nothing about granite gray and volt lol), I try damn hard to get behind the kid, I just can’t man.  Y’all help me.

no you were a thought to be blocked by any means. I like your basketball insight and tend to agree with you for the most part. I guess except this Trae thing. Leaving fair passes on the table seems to me like nitpicking considering the load he carries for us on a nightly basis. I think you will start to like him more as our team starts to mature and Cam and Hunter take more responsibilities and take pressure off Trae. At that point he will become your beloved Curry   

[AHF]

47 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

CP3 wasn’t in LA last season like SGA was.  There were no All Stars there and only Harrell played 82 games along with him as he started 73 as a rookie combo guard.  Helping them get to the playoffs in the West in that capacity is wildly impressive don’t you agree?

I love SGA but let's hold up for a second.  SGA was 7th on the team in minutes per game, 9th in PER, 12th in WS/48, and had a negative BPM.  Is that wildly impressive?  It was good but it was 10.8 points, 3.3 assists and 2.8 boards per game.  He was one of 8 people to average between 2 and 4 assists per game.  That was a deep, solid team of solid cogs.  He was one of the solid cogs.

[benhillboy]

18 hours ago, AHF said:

I love SGA but let's hold up for a second.  SGA was 7th on the team in minutes per game, 9th in PER, 12th in WS/48, and had a negative BPM.  Is that wildly impressive?  It was good but it was 10.8 points, 3.3 assists and 2.8 boards per game.  He was one of 8 people to average between 2 and 4 assists per game.  That was a deep, solid team of solid cogs.  He was one of the solid cogs.

Point taken, and they did have great variation with the guard depth.  I just can’t discount young players being “solid cogs” to playoff berths.  You look at minutes per, I’m looking at a team leading total.  We’re both right I guess.

If you (not you personally,a hypothetical anyone) give Trae a “pass” for his teams’ awful record, at the same token you have to overtly praise guys like Ja, SGA, and Tatum for helping lead their teams to .500 or better clips with the same hurdles of youth, injuries, and rosters one may see as flawed or unimpressive.   I don’t count Luka due to his pro experience and size but he’s still 21 on a flawed roster (IMO) that’s got hit pretty hard by injuries and the draft day trade will always link the two despite getting an extra stud in Cam.  

Luka led his team to the #1 offensive rating.  Trae led his to 26th.  That will never sit well with me, you can factor in all the variables you possibly can absolving him of any responsibility for it.  Not when he takes dreadful threes, no corner threes, commands no defensive attention without the rock, doesn’t get Bigs in foul trouble, can’t set a decent screen, or finish a fast break layup with a trailing defender.  I think his outstanding dribble economy, devastating floater, and elite passing get neutered under these flaws.  When you’re one of the leagues most targeted defenders these things actively push your teams’ ratings backwards, moreso than Kevin missing an open three or not being able to win off the dribble (granted they hurt). I’ll never stop believing that PGs set the tone for their squads, whether they’re on the ball a lot or not unless you have a bona fide Point Forward.  I’m watching Finals replays where Spo trusted Chalmers as much as anyone and was rewarded.
 

I just want my PG to be more Marcus Smart than James Harden.  Learn to positively affect the game off and away from the ball to maximize your teams’ chances to win if you aren’t shooting well, that’s all.  That’s the stark difference I perceive when looking at 30 and 10 Trae’s impact on winning versus a 20 and 8 Kyle Lowry.

Baby steps.  I just want a new coach who will make him press the ball just a little and run to a crease in the defense when Cam or Kevin handles that’s all.  Hunter, Ded, Capela, John, and Bruno will set as many screens as they need to.  That’ll easily add 2 positive points to the team’s differential.  The question is does he care?

Edited March 21, 2020 by benhillboy

[AHF]

How do you criticize Trae for his 3 while praising Luka and not mentioning that he takes a ton of less efficient 3’s?  
 

The big difference between the guys you mention and Trae is that Trae is the leader on a team that would be the worst in the league without him.  Tatum and SGA are good players on teams that would be in the playoffs if they never played a single game.  Even MJ spent years with a losing record or missing the playoffs before his supporting cast improved.  Even Darko won the East by joining a team that was already good without him.

Trae shouldn’t get a free pass for his flaws but you can’t divorce the discussion from context.  Nobody does it by themselves.  

[bleachkit]

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

How do you criticize Trae for his 3 while praising Luka and not mentioning that he takes a ton of less efficient 3’s?  
 

The big difference between the guys you mention and Trae is that Trae is the leader on a team that would be the worst in the league without him.  Tatum and SGA are good players on teams that would be in the playoffs if they never played a single game.  Even MJ spent years with a losing record or missing the playoffs before his supporting cast improved.  Even Darko won the East by joining a team that was already good without him.

Trae shouldn’t get a free pass for his flaws but you can’t divorce the discussion from context.  Nobody does it by themselves.  

Training wheels need to come off. If next year this team isn't playing .500 or better changes need to be made. We suffered an abnormal number of inexplicable blow outs this year. Players and coaches need to know that can't happen next year.

Edited March 21, 2020 by bleachkit

[AHF]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

Training wheels need to come off. If next year this team isn't playing .500 or better changes need to be made. We suffered an abnormal number of inexplicable blow outs this year. Players and coaches need to know that can't happen next year.

We do need to be notably better next season absent bizarre circumstances like JC’s suspension wrecking things.