Hawks Offseason Officially Starts!

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

 

Great. Will he come up with a loose ball in overtime by diving his big a$$ on the ground or is he too cool for school?

 

We had the “highlight factory “ that phase is over. I wanna win I don’t care about his AND 1 moves. 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Great. Will he come up with a loose ball in overtime by diving his big a$$ on the ground or is he too cool for school?

 

We had the “highlight factory “ that phase is over. I wanna win I don’t care about his AND 1 moves. 

He's flash and substance but let's not take the best player in college Basketball who fits what we do.

[kg01]

Oooh, dunks.  Yay

Why can't he use that super athleticism to move laterally on defense?

Ok, logging out before the supes backlash 

Edited June 12, 2020 by kg01

[Spud2nique]

50 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Why can't he use that super athleticism to move laterally on defense?

Oh that cuz chicks dig the dunks! Well not all of them Burd.

 

Gwu>Obi 

 

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Oooh, dunks.  Yay

Why can't he use that super athleticism to move laterally on defense?

Ok, logging out before the supes backlash 

We love dunks in Atlanta

[kg01]

26 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

We love dunks in Atlanta

Careful.  Somebody might start to think you got a sense of humor.

Wait, did AH hack you again?  Dang, I fell for it again.

[Spud2nique]

36 minutes ago, kg01 said:

AH hack

 

 

Look, you can say what you want about AHF but don’t call him a hack!

Automatic 2 day ban!  

[Buzzard]

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

Oooh, dunks.  Yay

Why can't he use that super athleticism to move laterally on defense?

Ok, logging out before the supes backlash 

We kind of have the dunks and paint filled up with Collins, Capela, and Dedmon; but if he is BPA when its our turn to draft, so be it.

But but but if he ain't, I vote we take someone with some skills on both ends of the floor.

[JayBirdHawk]

9 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Oh that cuz chicks dig the dunks! Well not all of them Burd.

 

Gwu>Obi 

 

 

 why you guys @kg01 and @Spud2nique keep dragging me in your mess?

It's not that I don't like Toppin the player, I just don't like him for us - another big without defense. If we are a drafting a big I prefer one with defensive upside. I disagree with Supes that he's the best player in the draft, I disagree with his description that he's a 'generational offensive player' and  'offensive wizard' (my words not his). If I'm wrong, I'm always here to eat a serving of crow.

My choice for this draft is to get more defense if a big or a player that's not Trae dependent - so PG/SG or  Wings with handles and defense.

[JayBirdHawk]

14 hours ago, NBASupes said:

It would be great but I am becoming more skeptical of late for us.

 

13 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Why come?

is it because Schlenk sounds like he’s about to be real cheap.  

Sounds like the Hawks aren't targetting his guys in FAcy or Draft! 

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 why you guys @kg01 and @Spud2nique keep dragging me in your mess?

It's not that I don't like Toppin the player, I just don't like him for us - another big without defense. If we are a drafting a big I prefer one with defensive upside. I disagree with Supes that he's the best player in the draft, I disagree with his description that he's a 'generational offensive player' and  'offensive wizard' (my words not his). If I'm wrong, I'm always here to eat a serving of crow.

My choice for this draft is to get more defense if a big or a player that's not Trae dependent - so PG/SG or  Wings with handles and defense.

8.5 offensive players over the years have lived up to potential and exceeded it. Sure Buddy Hield just lived up to potential but the rest became superstars when no one really expected it. When your offense is this highly rated, why not.

I can see your point on a big with more balanced, I do. Shit, that tends to be what I like 9 out of 10 times as well. To say I disagree with that statement is a lie. 100% lie.

The difference is he's an offensive 8.5. 9.5 offensive potential. He just needs to gain experience. Plus he gets a +.5 for fit with Trae Young and Capela. That's an offensive 10 without hitting just one of his swings. Basically he would Trae Young like at the 4 production and impact wise. That's extremely appealing to me.

That's two elite offensive WAR types. I could argue he would be a much better fit offensively than Collins is just due to his playmaking, first step and ability to beat his man consistently with his first step, and his ability to draw and handle double teams as well as his scheme versatility we haven't had in Atlanta since Sap and to this degree since Horford. Two of some of the best scheme versatile bigs in NBA history. 

So yes, the reason why I am higher on Toppin is because I do see a generational offensive PF prospect. That's why we are so indifferent on this. I don't even think you think he's better than John or will be better than John on offense. I think he's already better than John offensively, he just needs experience to be obviously better than John. 

So that's why I am going so f***ing hard on this because once I see what I need to see, I know that it needs to be done.

That said, don't get it twisted. I still want to keep John into 2020. I would rather keep him and see our offseason options. I also know John gives us the best chance to win next year as a PF, make no mistake about it at this time and he should play 28 to 30 mpg as well. 

He is easily the best player in this draft floor wise. Who else could it be? Hayes? Haliburton? Those are the only other two players with similar floors to Toppin. I guess you could make a case for those two.

[NBASupes]

20 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Sounds like the Hawks aren't targetting his guys in FAcy or Draft! 

TS is doing great in that area. I was just speaking to our impact metrics. We aren't really on OKC path but we are on MIN path, we need to make sure we can get on the right path for long term impact metrics. That includes everyone mainly outside of Trae

[NBASupes]

Another thing we need to be honest about is Obi Toppin defense. He's nowhere near as bad as Jabari Parker or other defensive scrubs out there. 

At the end of the day, his defensive metrics are decent at the college level. He favorably compares to Dwight Powell and several others who are known as marginal to decent defensive players today. I get it, his lateral quickness is ass, his body form doesn't do him any favors with his Amar'e back and his ability just doesn't transfer well from offense to defense. But he's already a solid defensive playmaker with a potential swing to be an excellent one for his position, he's got great hands that translates on both ends to a degree, he is very comfortable defending on the perimeter and he's smart. 

If I had to say who he would be like defending the perimeter, it would be like Kevin Huerter for his position. Just more playmaking. That's it. We all watch Kevin. We know he has the BBIQ, he's more comfortable defending on the perimeter than most of our guys outside of Cam and Graham but his lack of lateral quickness and physical tools hamper him on defense. Kevin and Obi close outs are pretty awful. 

TheStepien and ESPN have rightfully killed Toppin on defense but even both have said this nugget for Toppin on defense. 

ESPN - Has fairly sharp defensive instincts even though he's a bit limited on that end. Plays the passing lanes and is comfortable protecting the rim in a pinch. Spent most of the season playing center and has decent verticality and shot-blocking timing when he's fully engaged.

TheStepien - Needs work all around, but there are some weak-side rotation flashes, interior helps on drives, and some perimeter rotations. Would like to see him talk a bit more on defense paying attention to everything happening on the court, so he be an effective back-bone to the defense…which, being the big who has everything happening in front of him, is an important skill to have because (in theory) he can see most of what is happening on the court – he doesn’t do a bad job talking, but it’s usually only when he’s involved in the play (cross-screens, wanting a switch, etc).

Not a good rim protector, but shows flashes of both awareness and quickness getting off the ground (which when coupled with his elite pop, can make him an effective rim protector when he’s zoned in). However, at a whole, his awareness needs work, has to help better and rotate better to the ball.

Shows flashes of good post up defense, but needs to learn proper leg positioning – needs to keep his leg underneath the posting up player’s hamstrings / glutes. 

There are flashes of quick hip turns / feet even with the bad stance he currently has, but they are few and far between – there might be another level of quickness to unlock here with hip mobility work (and improving his overall stance), working on his stance, and improving balance / coordination.

 

Like I said, he has limited defensive potential. I project him to top out at a 6 and for a PF, that's not good at all. He does have one defensive swing which is defensive playmaking that he can potentially reach. Even then, I wouldn't exactly count on him reaching it but it's close enough to where he can sooner than later. 

Here are the list of career defensive's 6s: Frank Kaminsky, Kelly Olynyk, Cody Zeller, Kevin Love, Trey Lyles, Markieff Morris. He compares very favorably on defense to Kelly Olynyk based on college metrics. For me, I don't think he will reach his defensive potential playing with Trae Young of a 6 and I think he will hit a 6 based on hitting his defensive playmaking swing if he played in Atlanta. 

I do think Obi would be better on defense playing for other teams than the Hawks. That said, to maximize his offensive value, Atlanta is the perfect fit offensively along with GS. Realistically, a 6.5 is highly possible for Toppin in Chicago and San Antonio on defense. Most of these teams in the top 10, are bad fits defensively for Toppin. While Capela is an excellent fit for him on defense, Trae completely erases that. Offensively, Atlanta is tied as his best fit with Golden State. It's just that his defensive fit in Golden State is even worse than in Atlanta. Him playing the 5 on defense is a terrible situation and one that should be avoided at all cost no matter which team.

 

That's my take on this. I should be easy to see why I love the kid. He's an offensive gem. 

Edited June 12, 2020 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

Exit interviews with the media are ongoing for the Hawks this week. We’ve already spoken with Lloyd Pierce, Travis Schlenk and Trae Young. On Friday, the media is scheduled to speak with John Collins, De’Andre Hunter and Clint Capela.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

Quote

If you had to pick a star player who could theoretically be available in two to three years, who would fit this roster & most importantly fit with Trae Young the best? 

The one player who has been on my mind since it became clear that Young is legitimate and headed for superstardom is Devin Booker..... a maestro off the ball ..... has averaged nearly seven assists the past two seasons, also has playmaking abilities and could allow Young to move off the ball, .....What I would potentially worry about with a Young-Booker backcourt is the defense.  I’ve mentioned numerous times that finding a secondary creator and scorer next to Young is what the Hawks should be searching for when building out their roster.

 

Do you think the Hawks will be in the playoff race next year?  

I don’t see why they couldn’t be, especially if they spend their money wisely and add talent to the bench. The depth on the bench this season was mostly horrid, so just getting quality players to fill out the roster would go a long way.

 

Any chance that the Hawks will get Fred VanVleet to come to Atlanta? 

VanVleet is one of the best unrestricted free agents on the market, and he could command a salary of around $20 million per year. I don’t think giving that kind of money to VanVleet would be wise because I’m not sure how well he would fit next to Young in the backcourt.

 

Are the Hawks looking for vets who can start or vets who will add depth to the roster? — 

TS said in late April that if he believes there are veterans who can help the team win games, it wouldn’t impede his decision to sign them if it meant there might be competition at some positions..... The only players who don’t have to worry about competition in terms of starting or coming off the bench are Young, Collins and Capela. The others haven’t proven anything yet and shouldn’t be immune from competition.

 

Gut feeling — who starts at shooting guard? Huerter or Cam Reddish? 

As of today, my prediction would be Huerter....underrated playmaker whose shooting ability is important for this team. If he can grow defensively, Huerter would be someone you would want to have next to Young in the backcourt. Long-term, if Huerter doesn’t get better defensively and Reddish’s shooting improves, Reddish likely would be the starter.

 

I like Collins, but I wonder how much his scoring stats are the result of Young’s elite passing and overall wizardry. 

I don’t think Collins’ growth from Year 1 to Year 2 to Year 3 has been directly correlated with having Young as his point guard. Collins obviously benefits from having a point guard like Young, and if Collins added a bit of playmaking and ballhandling to his game, it could change the opinion that he needs Young’s wizardry to score.

 

What’s the biggest position of need to address in the offseason? 

The biggest long-term need for the Hawks is finding a combo guard who could play with Young, whether that’s trading for someone who can fill that role or developing someone such as Huerter or Reddish. The Hawks need to lock down that spot.

 

What is your “perfect” (yet still realistic) roster for the Hawks next year?

C : Clint Capela, Dewayne Dedmon, Bruno Fernando

PF: John Collins, De’Andre Hunter, Skal Labissiere

SF: Cam Reddish, Joe Harris

SG: Kevin Huerter, De’Anthony Melton, Anthony Edwards 

PG: Trae Young, Kris Dunn, Brandon Goodwin

 

Who’s the most interesting player on the team, OFF the court? 

I like this question. The first person who immediately came to mind is Collins. He grew up in a military family and lived in Guam, Turkey and Tacoma, Wash. He can connect with any person he meets — from little kids to the elderly. He’s intelligent, very well-spoken and not afraid to say how he feels about anything you ask him. I’ve said it before, but he could have a career in broadcasting one day if it’s a path he pursues after his playing career is done. Fun fact: Collins told me that he thought about playing for Puerto Rico’s Olympic team because he was upset about not making it on the initial roster cutdown for the U.S. team. His mom is Puerto Rican, and he actually was strongly considering it but decided not to pursue that option.

 

Now that the Hawks’ season is officially over, when do you think we can expect to see the new uniforms and color scheme for the 2020-21 season unveiled? — Knox A.

My guess would be sometime closer to the start of next season. Maybe around August or September?

 

[macdaddy]

Hunter as backup PF ?  That would be really bad value out of that pick.  

[NBASupes]

Kevin over Reddish in year 2?

Collins isn't a product of Trae to a large degree???

He is starting to be that journalist who's friends with guys more than one that just does his job like he used to do.

[AHF]

24 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Kevin over Reddish in year 2?

Collins isn't a product of Trae to a large degree???

He is starting to be that journalist who's friends with guys more than one that just does his job like he used to do.

Agree with you that we should be coming in with Reddish in the lead in the race to start next season.  Huerter would have to blow LP away coming into next year to hold onto that spot.  (And even then Cam could outstrip that improvement with his own development).

Not sure why you think Collins is largely a product of Trae.  

JC scored 30+ points 42.9% of the time when Trae was out last season (3 out of 7 games).

JC scored 30+ points 11.8% of the time when Trae played (4 out of 34 games)

Overall was very similar:

21.9 ppg without Trae

21.5 ppg with Trae

[Peoriabird]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Hunter as backup PF ?  That would be really bad value out of that pick.  

Atlanta sports coverage is just bad.  I remember when Rowland and his cronies ( Seigel) were questioning whether other not John was a starter.  Then Rowland thought he was a center who couldn't shoot.  Then they started on Young.  The funny part is that they loved some of the bums like Muscala and Malcolm Delaney.  Continued to insist throughout the 2018/19 season that Bazemore was the best player on the team Trae's rookie season etc.

[NBASupes]

19 minutes ago, AHF said:

Agree with you that we should be coming in with Reddish in the lead in the race to start next season.  Huerter would have to blow LP away coming into next year to hold onto that spot.  (And even then Cam could outstrip that improvement with his own development).

Not sure why you think Collins is largely a product of Trae.  

JC scored 30+ points 42.9% of the time when Trae was out last season (3 out of 7 games).

JC scored 30+ points 11.8% of the time when Trae played (4 out of 34 games)

Overall was very similar:

21.9 ppg without Trae

21.5 ppg with Trae

I need a lot more data than this. Touches,  minutes, FG%, efficiency and 7 games isn't much of a sample size either.