Hawks Offseason Officially Starts!

[JayBirdHawk]

45 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It was shit posting, you know I hate shit posting. It's like comparing John Collins to Damian Jones, lol nbadraft.net. 

Or comparing Collins to Tyson Chandler? Or gulp Josh Smith?

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

I hate to be “that guy” here but can we stop the Star Wars/Star Trek gifs. Fine, I never watched any of them ok. I dunno maybe I’m a geek.

 

I don’t know whose got a more compelling case here between Supes and Buzz for Obi and Haliburton respectively. Both have really great offensive versatility that Schlenk likes but neither plays great D which Schlenk lately has been showing he doesn’t like in selecting Hunter/Cam, but before he went Trae. Honestly Schlenk is hard to read in a poker game. Which is good cuz he keeps other GM’s guessing.

What's crazy is, I see exactly why Buzz loves Hali. I just don't know if he would translate as a starter which has been my point for awhile and beyond that, I just don't value a PG knowing Trae is already the franchise player in a deep ass PG draft where you can get backups who could be good in time in the 2nd round. 

 

That said, people who love Collins don't value the PF position when I don't love Collins, I have many long term questions and I want a better player at his spot to be honest. If Obi wasn't an offensive monster, I wouldn't look twice at him with his defensive question marks. Just facts but I'll take two extremely elite offensive players (Trae and Obi) with an elite two way one potentially in Cam, with a 3&D guy in Hunter and a rim protecting big who can defend on switches in Capela any day of the week long term. 

I am an impact guy. That's what I've always been about since day 1. You will never be able to sell me on shit I just don't see because I look EVERYWHERE and watch everything I can get my hands on. 

[kg01]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It's so inaccurate that I'll just take it as Alex talking about Adreian Payne or Diesel with Shelden Williams ...

Whoa.  Now it's my turn to be offended.  I'm not delusional like those takes were.  I simply disagree that the heights you say Toppin will achieve are assured.

[kg01]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

What's crazy is, I see exactly why Buzz loves Hali. I just don't know if he would translate as a starter which has been my point for awhile and beyond that, I just don't value a PG knowing Trae is already the franchise player in a deep ass PG draft where you can get backups who could be good in time in the 2nd round. 

I think labeling Haliburton or Hayes a "point guard" prejudices them unfairly.  No one should expect either to come here and simply "play point guard".  They'd simply be joining the guard rotation.  They'd play with Trae, would backup Trae and could probably "play SF" to some degree.  Positional restrictions are less stringent nowadays.

This also reminds me of another draft podcast I listened to.  The hosts were discussing median outcomes and how that ranking differs from the "normal" ranking.  Each rated Haliburton relatively low saying, based on median outcomes, his offense would be too poor to rate him higher and his defense would not be impactful.

Just an interesting conceptual discussion.  Interestingly, they both rated Edwards in tier 1.  The rationale being that he has physical tools such that he has so many different avenues to success.  Even if he doesn't become a star, based on median outcomes, he could still be a useful player.  I dispute that because it assumes he learns how to play basketball in a role other than 'take ball, try score'.

[NBASupes]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Or comparing Collins to Tyson Chandler? Or gulp Josh Smith?

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/john-collins/

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I think labeling Haliburton or Hayes a "point guard" prejudices them unfairly.  No one should expect either to come here and simply "play point guard".  They'd simply be joining the guard rotation.  They'd play with Trae, would backup Trae and could probably "play SF" to some degree.  Positional restrictions are less stringent nowadays.

This also reminds me of another draft podcast I listened to.  The hosts were discussing median outcomes and how that ranking differs from the "normal" ranking.  Each rated Haliburton relatively low saying, based on median outcomes, his offense would be too poor to rate him higher and his defense would not be impactful.

Just an interesting conceptual discussion.  Interestingly, they both rated Edwards in tier 1.  The rationale being that he has physical tools such that he has so many different avenues to success.  Even if he doesn't become a star, based on median outcomes, he could still be a useful player.  I dispute that because it assumes he learns how to play basketball in a role other than 'take ball, try score'.

Trae plays 33-35MPG. They won't get many minutes and the minutes they would get, they would have to play with Trae. Not a benefit for either prospect. Offensively, Trae dominates the ball. On defense, they play next to Trae. The fit just isn't natural although I can also make a case for them as well just not quite the case I can make for 

Edwards

Toppin

OO

Okoro

Deni

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Edwards

Toppin

I don't really know that much about Toppin to weigh in on his career prospects but if he's the best PF in the draft this is my choice too.   If we can get Edwards then we do it.   But given where JC is on his rookie deal and the need for a good backup PF this seems like the best thing to do.    If somehow we lose JC then we're left with just a large collection of guards and we'll be force to spend big money on a 4 when we've already got big money tied  up at the 5 and we'll be close to having to max Trae. 

[NBASupes]

37 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

You forgot OJ Mayo!

-Nancy 

O.J. was in the NBA with low trade value when I wanted him. That's not a miss unless you mean missed opportunity. 

[NBASupes]

https://theathletic.com/1721912/2020/04/03/2020-nba-draft-the-unconventional-top-5-in-a-very-unconventional-year/?article_source=search&search_query=obi toppin

[NBASupes]

36 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Whoa.  Now it's my turn to be offended.  I'm not delusional like those takes were.  I simply disagree that the heights you say Toppin will achieve are assured.

 

[bird_dirt]

49 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

You forgot OJ Mayo!

-Nancy 

Careful, @AHF is gonna come in and delete your post for bringing up 9 year old records.

[AHF]

12 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

O.J. was in the NBA with low trade value when I wanted him. That's not a miss unless you mean missed opportunity. 

 

1 minute ago, bird_dirt said:

Careful, @AHF is gonna come in and delete your post for bringing up 9 year old records.

Man - If we are going back 10 years looking for misses, the only ones who won't look like idiots will be the ones who have been here long enough to make predictions.  And for analysis of college prospects that goes double since the draft history is littered with big swings and misses even for teams of professional scouts.

[JayBirdHawk]

36 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/john-collins/

 Good try but not even the sam. That is a comparison BEFORE John has played an NBA game plays and who his NBA comp may be.  It's called a projection.

You made your JSmith/TChandler comparison AFTER you have seen JC play in the NBA. Two totally different circumstances.

[bleachkit]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

 

Man - If we are going back 10 years looking for misses, the only ones who won't look like idiots will be the ones who have been here long enough to make predictions.  And for analysis of college prospects that goes double since the draft history is littered with big swings and misses even for teams of professional scouts.

People always underestimate how much luck is involved with hitting on picks. 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 Good try but not even the sam. That is a comparison BEFORE John has played an NBA game plays and who his NBA comp may be.  It's called a projection.

You made your JSmith/TChandler comparison AFTER you have seen JC play in the NBA. Two totally different circumstances.

It was an impact comparison to Smith. Aka, lacking impact while putting up stats. Overpaying would be a massive mistake. 

Chandler was exclusively a style comparison in the fact that they were movement bigs. I don't remember why I used Chandler. That said, what does that got to do with the price of rice? 

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It was an impact comparison to Smith. Aka, lacking impact while putting up stats. Overpaying would be a massive mistake. 

Chandler was exclusively a style comparison in the fact that they were movement bigs. I don't remember why I used Chandler. That said, what does that got to do with the price of rice? 

You tell me...you're the one having the fit about the Toppin comparisons amd threw out a Collins/Jones comp. 

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You tell me...you're the one having the fit about the Toppin comparisons amd threw out a Collins/Jones comp. 

That was a scouting comparison to those saying Jabari/Obi. It's like Wilcox or Damian/John. It's a shit comparison. 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

O.J. was in the NBA with low trade value when I wanted him. That's not a miss unless you mean missed opportunity. 

Huh nah brother you missed on that one. Take the hit.

[Spud2nique]

Collins is possibly the 3rd best up and coming in the entire league. Maybe tied with Paskal. I’ll just put it this way, if we didn’t have Collins, we would be looking to trade for Collins. He’s just a perfect fit with Trae and the timeline fits. Why dip into the Obi pool. It’s redundant where we already have a potential all star and 20/10 guy in JC. I think we still go BPA obviously but if it’s between Obi and another prospect in a different position other than PF, I say we lean that way. We got PG and PF covered. Build in other areas now.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

 

Man - If we are going back 10 years looking for misses, the only ones who won't look like idiots will be the ones who have been here long enough to make predictions.  And for analysis of college prospects that goes double since the draft history is littered with big swings and misses even for teams of professional scouts.

My biggest mistake was Marvin. I was convinced he was a James Worthy type impact guy. Also thought AC Law was gonna be something nice with his ambidextrous ways. 
 

Ya we all miss. I’m pretty sure nobody is perfect around here.