Who do you want at #6?

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Lol, Cole Anthony is a good player. Injuries obviously hurt him and the lack of no F2F and no workouts will hurt him worse but he can play. In such a deep PG class. I mean, he's behind, Maxey, Dotson, Lewis Jr, and Maladon and that's just the 2nd tier in terms of team value.

Lewis Jr is the one I like. 

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Bring it.

I'm not sold on Nesmith.  I'm also not sold on Cole Anthony.  I just don't get the idea of selecting someone that high to groom as the 3rd pg.  What's the point?

He won't be going "high". He's going to go somewhere around/after pick 20 (20-25 ish more precisely). He'd be learning year one, getting some minutes year 2, Trae's backup year 3. That's not crazy for the 20th+ pick.

Edited August 27, 2020 by thecampster

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

But you kinda made my point for me here.  I'd take Maxey or Lewis ahead of him.  That said, I kinda feel like he'll get taken in the lottery just off name.  I don't want us trading back into the back of the lottery for him.  I certainly don't want us to make him our pick at 6 or using 6 (via trading back)

and at this point I'd be completely shocked if we stay at 6. Should probably get that out of your noggin right now. 6 is just a placeholder.

 

[kg01]

24 minutes ago, thecampster said:

He won't be going "high". He's going to go somewhere around/after pick 20 (20-25 ish more precisely). He'd be learning year one, getting some minutes year 2, Trae's backup year 3. That's not crazy for the 20th+ pick.

To me, that's more appropriate.  I just don't put it past GM's to do something dumb.

13 minutes ago, thecampster said:

and at this point I'd be completely shocked if we stay at 6. Should probably get that out of your noggin right now. 6 is just a placeholder.

 

I'm kidding, I know you didn't mean that as a slight.

Seriously though, I've been a staunch advocate of us trading down or out of this draft completely.  I'd be overjoyed if we trade down.  What I was saying was that I hope we don't trade down just to get Anthony.  Gimme that Spurs deal for 11 and Murray/White.  We can get something sexy at 11.

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

To me, that's more appropriate.  I just don't put it past GM's to do something dumb.

I'm kidding, I know you didn't mean that as a slight.

Seriously though, I've been a staunch advocate of us trading down or out of this draft completely.  I'd be overjoyed if we trade down.  What I was saying was that I hope we don't trade down just to get Anthony.  Gimme that Spurs deal for 11 and Murray/White.  We can get something sexy at 11.

I've been proposing this for about a month now .

33 minutes ago, thecampster said:

He won't be going "high". He's going to go somewhere around/after pick 20 (20-25 ish more precisely). He'd be learning year one, getting some minutes year 2, Trae's backup year 3. That's not crazy for the 20th+ pick.

Trade for Prince and #19...take Cole.

[thecampster]

14 minutes ago, kg01 said:

To me, that's more appropriate.  I just don't put it past GM's to do something dumb.

I'm kidding, I know you didn't mean that as a slight.

Seriously though, I've been a staunch advocate of us trading down or out of this draft completely.  I'd be overjoyed if we trade down.  What I was saying was that I hope we don't trade down just to get Anthony.  Gimme that Spurs deal for 11 and Murray/White.  We can get something sexy at 11.

No I get that and I'm a word smith, no hate in my body.

My bigger fear is we're trading down a few slots thinking there's a big man we want and it doesn't materialize. I'm always nervous about sliding down 5 only to find out the player you were targeting goes 1 slot ahead of where you landed.

I believe #6 is a trade down scenario to acquire a contributing player/salary and pick up a future pick (unless it's Boston and then we'd be grabbing 14 and future considerations). I think us getting in on picks 20-25 is a 2nd or Bruno (depending on what we're getting) to take on a contract and get a pick, maybe more.  Something like the Philly deal for 21 + Horford and we only give up a future 2nd.

[NBASupes]

46 minutes ago, thecampster said:

and at this point I'd be completely shocked if we stay at 6. Should probably get that out of your noggin right now. 6 is just a placeholder.

 

Okongwu is likely going 6. To us, probably not. There is suitors and TS wants a future 1st

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Okongwu is likely going 6. To us, probably not. There is suitors and TS wants a future 1st

As long as we end up Killian or Ball in that scenario, I'm completely fine with it. 

@kg01  what moved you into the Ball camp?  Did you finally see his tape or do you still want to ultimately trade him?  Not to pat myself on the back, but I was on the ball train very early when the experts were saying he would be drafted in the 20's.  His passing is a very translatable skill.  Everything is a work in progress.

Edited August 27, 2020 by marco102

[thecampster]

Let me clarify that....the Horford deal is a real possibility, they just are a bit limited on what assets they can give up to dump him and its very dependent on if the NBA brings back the amnesty for a year to help teams deal with the new cap (very possible.

 

It would look like this

Philly trades Al Horford + the 21st pick in this year's draft 

Atlanta trades Cleveland or Atlanta's 2nd round pick in 2021 (whichever is lower).

 

Why Atlanta does it - Horford comes in and plays backup center/pf getting 15+ minutes per night for 1 year and is traded at the all-star break or season end as an expiring. Atlanta gets Cole Anthony.  Total cap cost to Hawks - (about $29.5 million)

Why Philly does it - Philly can't make any significant moves until Horford's contract is gone. Atlanta is one of only 4 teams that can clear the entire cap space.

[NBASupes]

10 minutes ago, thecampster said:

No I get that and I'm a word smith, no hate in my body.

My bigger fear is we're trading down a few slots thinking there's a big man we want and it doesn't materialize. I'm always nervous about sliding down 5 only to find out the player you were targeting goes 1 slot ahead of where you landed.

I believe #6 is a trade down scenario to acquire a contributing player/salary and pick up a future pick (unless it's Boston and then we'd be grabbing 14 and future considerations). I think us getting in on picks 20-25 is a 2nd or Bruno (depending on what we're getting) to take on a contract and get a pick, maybe more.  Something like the Philly deal for 21 + Horford and we only give up a future 2nd.

New York controls the draft. They can move up and change everything. I am hearing Minny is looking at moving down but they want a lot. For us, we gonna move back no matter what. We are New Orleans 2019. Our money is our greatest asset. Every damn body has been in contact with us. Our financial assets while having a core maybe a killer for free agents, it's a beast for teams in financial binding situation and want to get off some salary of some decent players. We are in a great situation. 

[marco102]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

Let me clarify that....the Horford deal is a real possibility, they just are a bit limited on what assets they can give up to dump him and its very dependent on if the NBA brings back the amnesty for a year to help teams deal with the new cap (very possible.

 

It would look like this

Philly trades Al Horford + the 21st pick in this year's draft 

Atlanta trades Cleveland or Atlanta's 2nd round pick in 2021 (whichever is lower).

 

Why Atlanta does it - Horford comes in and plays backup center/pf getting 15+ minutes per night for 1 year and is traded at the all-star break or season end as an expiring. Atlanta gets Cole Anthony.  Total cap cost to Hawks - (about $29.5 million)

Why Philly does it - Philly can't make any significant moves until Horford's contract is gone. Atlanta is one of only 4 teams that can clear the entire cap space.

If cap space is limited, why would it be easy for Atlanta to trade Horford and that awful contract?  It's not possible in my eyes.  Just let Horford rot in Philly.

[marco102]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

New York controls the draft. They can move up and change everything. I am hearing Minny is looking at moving down but they want a lot. For us, we gonna move back no matter what. We are New Orleans 2019. Our money is our greatest asset. Every damn body has been in contact with us. Our financial assets while having a core maybe a killer for free agents, it's a beast for teams in financial binding situation and want to get off some salary of some decent players. We are in a great situation. 

This confused me.  Are you saying our cap space will allow us to make many deals in the trade market and therefore won't really need to sign free agents?

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

If cap space is limited, why would it be easy for Atlanta to trade Horford and that awful contract?  It's not possible in my eyes.  Just let Horford rot in Philly.

He is just mentioning one option. Horford has some suitors. He's still an impactful player especially to young teams. 

There are a number of guys on the open market who are decent with no suitors at all

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

This confused me.  Are you saying our cap space will allow us to make many deals in the trade market and therefore won't really need to sign free agents?

FA don't really want to come to Atlanta this year. We don't have much PT available and they aren't going to be core pieces. If we are the only team interested, they will come but we just don't have many minutes available. 

Players on contracts have no say. 

[kg01]

11 minutes ago, marco102 said:

As long as we end up Killian or Ball in that scenario, I'm completely fine with it. 

@kg01  what moved you into the Ball camp?  Did you finally see his tape or do you still want to ultimately trade him?  Not to pat myself on the back, but I was on the ball train very early when the experts were saying he would be drafted in the 20's.  His passing is a very translatable skill.  Everything is a work in progress.

It's not so much that I now like him, necessarily.  It's just that I've always considered his playmaking as an elite skill.  I don't think anyone else in the draft has an elite skill.  He wins by default, I guess.

[thecampster]

57 minutes ago, marco102 said:

If cap space is limited, why would it be easy for Atlanta to trade Horford and that awful contract?  It's not possible in my eyes.  Just let Horford rot in Philly.

Assuming a cap of $109 million (6 million less than this year). Only Atlanta, NY, Detroit and maybe Sacremento/N.O. would have enough cap space to absorb all of Horford's salary. Of those, only Atlanta and NY have enough room to still make moves after.  Atlanta has about $45 million cap space all things being equal. If they acquired Horford and the 21st pick, they would still have about $16 million more to play with. For the Knicks its a bit more complicated because it requires them to not resign players they want to keep. But assuming they did that, they'd have $15 million ish after the acquisition. Pretty much everyone else either can't or it blows the rest of their cap. 

Horford's deal is for 2 more years guaranteed. After the 20/21 season, Horford will be on his last year guaranteed and will then be an expiring deal....this is very attractive to teams looking to make a run at the next year's free agents. So a Horford trade is really a 1 year rental.  Basically you'd be giving up a 2nd round pick and cap space for 1 year of Horford, the 21st pick and whatever long term contract you trade Horford for after 1 year. 

Horford is hard to trade out now because its 2 years of salary that affects 2 years of free agent classes. He's easier to trade next year because he's only 1 year of salary and then off the books for a team setting up for free agency.

 

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

FA don't really want to come to Atlanta this year. We don't have much PT available and they aren't going to be core pieces. If we are the only team interested, they will come but we just don't have many minutes available. 

Players on contracts have no say. 

Exactly, which is why we want to use our space to take on someone else's sacrifice to the LT gods.  An easy example is Andrew Wiggins. If GS can find a trading partner, he'll be sacrificed on the altar of of the LT Repeat Offender God (who happens to be a wrathful and unforgiving diety).

[marco102]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

Assuming a cap of $109 million (6 million less than this year). Only Atlanta, NY, Detroit and maybe Sacremento/N.O. would have enough cap space to absorb all of Horford's salary. Of those, only Atlanta and NY have enough room to still make moves after.  Atlanta has about $45 million cap space all things being equal. If they acquired Horford and the 21st pick, they would still have about $16 million more to play with. For the Knicks its a bit more complicated because it requires them to not resign players they want to keep. But assuming they did that, they'd have $15 million ish after the acquisition. Pretty much everyone else either can't or it blows the rest of their cap. 

Horford's deal is for 2 more years guaranteed. After the 20/21 season, Horford will be on his last year guaranteed and will then be an expiring deal....this is very attractive to teams looking to make a run at the next year's free agents. So a Horford trade is really a 1 year rental.  Basically you'd be giving up a 2nd round pick and cap space for 1 year of Horford, the 21st pick and whatever long term contract you trade Horford for after 1 year. 

Horford is hard to trade out now because its 2 years of salary that affects 2 years of free agent classes. He's easier to trade next year because he's only 1 year of salary and then off the books for a team setting up for free agency.

 

I must be misintepretating something.  Horford is signed through 22/23.  The final year 22/23 is guaranteed for $14,500,000.  

That's just too much for my  liking. I mean I do understand we could for Horford.  The cons out weigh the pros in my book.

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I must be misintepretating something.  Horford is signed through 22/23.  The final year 22/23 is guaranteed for $14,500,000.  

That's just too much for my  liking. I mean I do understand we could for Horford.  The cons out weigh the pros in my book.

You are correct, I have bad information. If waived in the last year it's partially guaranteed.

[thecampster]

I had it down as fully non-guaranteed (because I trusted color coding to be accurate).