Well.. It doesn't look like we need anything. We are a team headed to the Chip!!

[bleachkit]

I love our young core, but I do think there is definitely a tendency for fans to overrate their own young talent, I'm probably as guilty as anyone.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Pilo... I appreciate you.  And I agree with a lot of what you say.

I even agree with Young, Cam, and Collins... with the understanding that Cam and Collins can be moved in the right deal.   I have no loyalty to Capela.  IF he can make a good trade happen for us... then let's do it. 

Yes.  The right Deal You need real value for the young assets. 

At the trade deadline: some here were to hot to trot to trade #17 and Cam for Drummond, talk about a SERIOUS OVERPAY.  

Drummond was traded for  Brandon Knight, John Henson and a 2023 2nd Round pick. 

In the end, the Hawks it seems were willing to trade #17 for Drummond but they couldn't get to a consensus on what his new contract would look like, he wanted $30 million, Hawks declined.  Hawks declined and traded #17 for Capela who has a long term reasonable contract.

[LucastheThird]

@Diesel you've had this problem for the last few years now. Your trade ideas aren't being as well received as they used to years ago and you feel like @NBASupes doesn't actually have a source. We'll never know 100% if he does or not, but his scoops have started to be backed up a bit by @thecampster.

 

As far as your talk about sacred cows:

Trae: Not going anywhere. 

Collins: Has been in trade discussions for months now.

Huerter: Been requested to be in trades by multiple teams and many posters here are willing to let him go for the right players. 

Cam: Only had one year and really impressed at the end. Needs more time to see development. 

Hunter: Same as Cam needs more time to see development. 

Capela: HAS NOT PLAYED A SINGLE MINUTE OF BASKETBALL AS A HAWK. We need to see his actual impact on the court. He has been in trade talks but the return needs to be adequate for a player of his skill level.

 

We are looking to add vet players but not at the cost of also draining our cap flexibility as well as our carefully built young core. 

Edited November 6, 2020 by LucastheThird

[warcore]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

Listening to the Hawks fans here.

1.  We can't move Capella.  - So  keeping Capella Means that we are good at C. 

2.   We can't move Collins.  - So  keeping Collins Means that we are good at PF. 

3.  We have enough Tweeners.

4.  We don't want a SG like Bradley Beal  or Joe Harris.   So we're good at SG.

5.  Trae is a superstar in the making.

 

Therefore.. if we have all of those positions covered plus we have highly sought after Depth..  Then this team is headed to the Chip in Hawks fans eyes!!!

 

Where is this mention of depth in your famous 5 point plan, Damone?

[thecampster]

45 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

@Diesel you've had this problem for the last few years now. Your trade ideas aren't being as well received as they used to years ago and you feel like @NBASupes doesn't actually have a source. We'll never know 100% if he does or not, but his scoops have started to be backed up a bit by @thecampster.

 

As far as your talk about sacred cows:

Trae: Not going anywhere. 

Collins: Has been in trade discussions for months now.

Huerter: Been requested to be in trades by multiple teams and many posters here are willing to let him go for the right players. 

Cam: Only had one year and really impressed at the end. Needs more time to see development. 

Hunter: Same as Cam needs more time to see development. 

Capela: HAS NOT PLAYED A SINGLE MINUTE OF BASKETBALL AS A HAWK. We need to see his actual impact on the court. He has been in trade talks but the return needs to be adequate for a player of his skill level.

 

We are looking to add vet players but not at the cost of also draining our cap flexibility as well as our carefully built young core. 

Thanks buddy,

 

Let me expound on the Supes thing. I don't think either of us really thinks we're insiders or anything. I have a few friends with connections.  Most of my information is highly credible 3rd hand. I've used this example before but let me share it now.  People in marketing firms are given information from time to time and ask to test sample that information. This happened before the Drummond trade last year. About 3 weeks before the trade happened, I got wind that Drummond was actively shopped to a few teams and there was enough interest that marketing groups did insertion tests to see how much buzz that player would receive in certain markets.  Most NBA trades are made with 1 of 3 motives....to get better...to save money...to sell tickets. That's it...pretty much all NBA trades fall into those 3 categories when you get down to the nuts and bolts (first person to throw out an outlier gets punched in the testicles...I'm in no mood for that nonsense today). So going back to the Drummond trade, it was leaked well in advance so that teams could gauge potential fanbase interest. No one believed the Drummond trade was going to push them over the top. Drummond's salary required the acquiring team to give up enough that the acquisition was probably a net zero talent wise. So the acquisition was purely about marketing. This is why you saw tons of leaks on it. It's why I mentioned he was moving, we were in the mix but not a lock 3 weeks in advance. It was a purposeful leak to gain interest.

Some of those are negative leaks...as in the case of Gordon Hayward this week. I was 2 days ahead of that and what Boston was about to do with their picks.  This was another....does it move the needle with the fanbases type of leak. Many, many leaks are PR. These are almost always leaked to media surrogates. Remember back to when Josh Smith left the team. Bob Rathburn started complaining openly during broadcasts about Josh's shot selection. This was on purpose. It was to lessen the impact when they let him go. A great example of this was Josh Smith to Milwaukee that almost happened in his last season here. https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/2/21/4014574/josh-smith-nba-trade-deadline-hawks-bucks . The team felt it would have been a PR nightmare and backed out at the last minute.

Lets get to the ones that aren't solely about tickets and merchandising.  Prior to big trades, marketing firms, ad agencies and printing shops, jersey makers and a few select others are given courtesy information to get the ball rolling on PR.  These usually give you a 1 to 2 day rumor notice. The bomb is dropped in the acquiring team's city, not the sending. This is because the leaks are accidental, not purposeful. Someone in the small circle of merchandising slips up and says something or has outlets (like Supes) to share that info to. Usually its not for profit but for prestige. In some cases, its an organizational guy trying to prove he's a bigshot in the know and telling his friends stuff. They'll log on to sites like this to bask in the glow that they are an insider. I wouldn't be surprised if Supes' contact(s) log in here to smile at their handy work. In other cases it is purposeful as the sending team tries to use fanbase enthusiasm to drum up interest and hold the player hostage for more assets or spin him to another team for more gain. When enough of these come to pass, you start to trust that source as someone who has a guy.

The last trade type and the one you get the least advance knowledge of is the rebuilding trade because lets face it...nobody here did backflips when they heard we were acquiring Chandler Parsons.  The only thing you talk up in those trades is the potential draft assets.

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by thecampster

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 KAT is locked into a guaranteed contract for the next 4 years same as Buddy.  Beal has 3 years left (PO is year 3).

Missed that KAT contract... but that's good.   Even better that he has time. 

[thecampster]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

Listening to the Hawks fans here.

1.  We can't move Capella.  - So  keeping Capella Means that we are good at C. 

2.   We can't move Collins.  - So  keeping Collins Means that we are good at PF. 

3.  We have enough Tweeners.

4.  We don't want a SG like Bradley Beal  or Joe Harris.   So we're good at SG.

5.  Trae is a superstar in the making.

 

Therefore.. if we have all of those positions covered plus we have highly sought after Depth..  Then this team is headed to the Chip in Hawks fans eyes!!!

 

Let me address your points in order.

1. We can move Capella but it has to be for equal value. If we assigned a value to Capella on a 1-100 scale, he is a 70 (ish). Damian Jones is an 18, Lebron/Giannis are 100's. In any trade of Capella, our guy for 2x35's doesn't = 70.  2 x50's = a 70 because in order to make a slot for both players, you push out a 30. A 70 has way more impact than a 50. It isn't 20 better, its a sign curve with impact.

2. If Capella is a 70, JC is a 90...not because he's that much better but because he's at least as valuable now and younger, salary controlled by being on his rookie contract. Collins is mostly untradeable because his is a value ratio, not just value...its production to salary. JC currently makes 1/3 of Capella and is at least as impactful.

3. We are developing the Tweeners. In order to take time away from our tweeners, the incoming Tweener has to be much better. Nobody is saying we wouldn't sit Hunter for Giannis. But we aren't stopping developing Hunter and Huerter for Tobias Harris or Taurean Prince, no matter who is better today.

4. Same thing...we want to see what Reddish brings at that position and he needs minutes. Bringing in Beal means moving Cam to the 3 and shipping out either Hunter or Huerter to make room. I'm not against that, I just want to not give up the farm to do it.

5. Trae is superstar now. He's a huge draw. Attendance was way up in road games last year, Trae was the reason...it certainly wasn't our record. He's our point guard. There really isn't anyone we're trading for that is better. We need to solidify the backup position.

 

6...yah I know you didn't have a 6.  We really need to know what we have in Skal right now. He is our very possible surprise this year.

 

We have tons of money right now...we need to be smart with it so we can resign our own guys in 2 years +

Edited November 6, 2020 by thecampster

[AHF]

2 hours ago, gurpilo said:

About the examples you mention I would trade 6th pick, Huerter and Capela for KAT on a heartbeat. 

Me too.  Don't think Minnesota would bite but you'd see a lot of interest in this from Squawkers.

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

Long story long, no sacred cows but also no sacrificial lambs.

@kg01 with the perfect turn of phrase here.

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

We have tons of money right now...we need to be smart with it so we can resign our own guys in 2 years +

YES!!!!   This is the biggest point.   We can't eat up our cap with overpay guys who have long term deals.  We can overpay on a one  year for sure.  a la JJ Reddick with the sixers.

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Me too.  Don't think Minnesota would bite but you'd see a lot of interest in this from Squawkers.

@kg01 with the perfect turn of phrase here.

If you paired Kat with Trae, others would line up to get in on that. Free agents would immediately want to be in that mix.

Edited November 6, 2020 by thecampster

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

If you paired Kat with Trae, others would line up to get in on that. Free agents would immediately want to be in that mix.

Like I said, Minnesota is the one who turns that down.  With them controlling him for the next 4 years, it is going to be very difficult for any team to get him unless he decides to burn the house down around him and force a trade.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, LucastheThird said:

@Diesel you've had this problem for the last few years now. Your trade ideas aren't being as well received as they used to years ago and you feel like @NBASupes doesn't actually have a source. We'll never know 100% if he does or not, but his scoops have started to be backed up a bit by @thecampster.

 

As far as your talk about sacred cows:

Trae: Not going anywhere. 

Collins: Has been in trade discussions for months now.

Huerter: Been requested to be in trades by multiple teams and many posters here are willing to let him go for the right players. 

Cam: Only had one year and really impressed at the end. Needs more time to see development. 

Hunter: Same as Cam needs more time to see development. 

Capela: HAS NOT PLAYED A SINGLE MINUTE OF BASKETBALL AS A HAWK. We need to see his actual impact on the court. He has been in trade talks but the return needs to be adequate for a player of his skill level.

 

We are looking to add vet players but not at the cost of also draining our cap flexibility as well as our carefully built young core. 

You are right and you are wrong.  I don't have a lot of seriousness to all of my trade ideas.   Meaning that I don't really think we should go after everybody.. but I do like to discuss the possibility of us moving pieces for skillsets that we don't have.  Since I have been on Squawk and actually AA before that my main thing was to get people to think differently because to hear the same dry arguments day after day is boring.  That doesn't mean that I don't research some ideas though.   It's not all tongue and cheek.  Some of it is just best guess based on what is going on with other teams.  For instance, my mind says... what would Philly do to get Harden and then how do they build after that?  There's where a Tobias Harris comes up... I could have easily said Horford and he could have possibly fit if I thought that Collins could play the 3 which I don't.  but it's too many Horford Homers to have that conversation around here.   Do I think we should do either... not really but I believe that it shows that with our position we can be more relevant than following the B.S. that agents put out because we're in the position that we're in. 

As far as Supes... you're right.   I've never felt that there was anything real about his insider.. who manages to have stayed relevant through 2 ownership changes and 3 GM changes.  When Supes came here his talk was about his insider.  He has always wanted some sort of attention for being an "inside guy".   So coming back to the Squawk and seeing that Supes has what he's always wanted... It's not surprising.   I'm just shocked that you don't just have a ask supes forum yet. 

What I do believe...

1.  I do believe that we need a vet who can be a solid secondary scorer to Trae.  I don't want to see us squander Trae's good years.

2.  I do believe that somewhere in our craw, we're hurt because of how good Luka turned out.

3.  I do believe that we as fans still have a love hate relationship with our own players whereby they are sacred cows when we're losing and they are in the way when we're winning. 

4.  I do believe that we have a weakness and it's our SG position. 

5.  I do believe that we can overcome our defensive woes without having to pick up a defensive specialist. 

 

[kg01]

9 minutes ago, thecampster said:

If you paired Kat with Trae, others would line up to get in on that. Free agents would immediately want to be in that mix.

I doubt guys wanna play with two ball-dominant guards that love to jak up 3's.

They'd essentially be signing up to be the guys doing the dirty work (and not shoot as much).

(There's a sick burn in here.  Let's see who finds it first.)

[AHF]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

I doubt guys wanna play with two ball-dominant guards that love to jak up 3's.

They'd essentially be signing up to be the guys doing the dirty work (and not shoot as much).

(There's a sick burn in here.  Let's see who finds it first.)

 

[kg01]

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

 

 

 

[Diesel]

39 minutes ago, AHF said:

 

I'm trying to figure out who else KAT could be??

Teague?

Brandon Knight?

Kyle Lowry?

Kyrie Irving?

Killian Hayes?

Tyrese Haliburton?

Trey Burkes?

Kemba Walker?

Just now, Diesel said:

I'm trying to figure out who else KAT could be??

Teague?

Brandon Knight?

Kyle Lowry?

Kyrie Irving?

Killian Hayes?

Tyrese Haliburton?

Trey Burkes?

Kemba Walker?

Hell, I would sign up to play with Trae and Kyrie Irving?  They are going to need some rebounds!!

[Gray Mule]

Two old / new Hawk players we have now:

Last season the Hawks were not great at the center position.  An injured Clint Capela was made available and Atlanta grabbed him.  He didn't heal up in time to play any last season.  Never played as a Hawk.

Last season Skal Labissiere, who Travis had long wanted, became available.  Our GM quickly took him and he became a Hawk.  Like CC, he never recovered in time to play as a Hawk.  I sincerely believe that he will end up as a real steal for Atlanta.

These two Hawks give us hopes of being much better next season.  Our bench, one of our greatest weak links, already looks much stronger.  Our center position, our weakness, has become our strength.

No, we're not all set.  Not yet.  We still have our draft pick and / or the signing of one or two veterans.  Then, up to the trade deadline break, we play and see what we have and what's available.

This Hawk team is not great.  Not yet.  But, it is so much better than it was, it doesn't compare !!

[Sothron]

2 hours ago, LucastheThird said:

@Diesel you've had this problem for the last few years now. Your trade ideas aren't being as well received as they used to years ago and you feel like @NBASupes doesn't actually have a source. We'll never know 100% if he does or not, but his scoops have started to be backed up a bit by @thecampster.

 

As far as your talk about sacred cows:

Trae: Not going anywhere. 

Collins: Has been in trade discussions for months now.

Huerter: Been requested to be in trades by multiple teams and many posters here are willing to let him go for the right players. 

Cam: Only had one year and really impressed at the end. Needs more time to see development. 

Hunter: Same as Cam needs more time to see development. 

Capela: HAS NOT PLAYED A SINGLE MINUTE OF BASKETBALL AS A HAWK. We need to see his actual impact on the court. He has been in trade talks but the return needs to be adequate for a player of his skill level.

 

We are looking to add vet players but not at the cost of also draining our cap flexibility as well as our carefully built young core. 

To be fair Diesel didn't believe me when I had three separate sources back in the day in the Hawks and the arena and was getting verified information. So of course he's not going to believe supes.  

The only sacred cow we seem to have as fans here on this site is Trae. And he deserves that status.

[kg01]

41 minutes ago, Sothron said:

To be fair Diesel didn't believe me when I had three separate sources back in the day in the Hawks and the arena and was getting verified information. So of course he's not going to believe supes.  

The only sacred cow we seem to have as fans here on this site is Trae. And he deserves that status.

But who's the sacred cow of hawksquawk?

I vote ....

https://giphy.com/gifs/nickjonas-nick-jonas-9rhNJScGSlneHpLtnz

 

[LucastheThird]

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

You are right and you are wrong.  I don't have a lot of seriousness to all of my trade ideas.   Meaning that I don't really think we should go after everybody.. but I do like to discuss the possibility of us moving pieces for skillsets that we don't have.  Since I have been on Squawk and actually AA before that my main thing was to get people to think differently because to hear the same dry arguments day after day is boring.  That doesn't mean that I don't research some ideas though.   It's not all tongue and cheek.  Some of it is just best guess based on what is going on with other teams.  For instance, my mind says... what would Philly do to get Harden and then how do they build after that?  There's where a Tobias Harris comes up... I could have easily said Horford and he could have possibly fit if I thought that Collins could play the 3 which I don't.  but it's too many Horford Homers to have that conversation around here.   Do I think we should do either... not really but I believe that it shows that with our position we can be more relevant than following the B.S. that agents put out because we're in the position that we're in. 

As far as Supes... you're right.   I've never felt that there was anything real about his insider.. who manages to have stayed relevant through 2 ownership changes and 3 GM changes.  When Supes came here his talk was about his insider.  He has always wanted some sort of attention for being an "inside guy".   So coming back to the Squawk and seeing that Supes has what he's always wanted... It's not surprising.   I'm just shocked that you don't just have a ask supes forum yet. 

What I do believe...

1.  I do believe that we need a vet who can be a solid secondary scorer to Trae.  I don't want to see us squander Trae's good years.

2.  I do believe that somewhere in our craw, we're hurt because of how good Luka turned out.

3.  I do believe that we as fans still have a love hate relationship with our own players whereby they are sacred cows when we're losing and they are in the way when we're winning. 

4.  I do believe that we have a weakness and it's our SG position. 

5.  I do believe that we can overcome our defensive woes without having to pick up a defensive specialist. 

 

I just got back home and realized I came off a bit more harsh than intended. @Diesel I'm sorry. I never want to attack another Squawker. 

At the end of the day I don't want you to become disinterested with the board and leave for good. You were one of the posters who actually got me to sign up and join your thread over a decade ago. 

 

Let's keep talking trade ideas, anonymous sources, and things that may never happen. The Dieselputer still lives. We've talked through the Duckbutt and J Brick Era, the 60 win era, and now the dawn of the Trae era. Don't leave like Admin (who shall not be named), Coackx, Spud and other older Squawkers.