Thoughts on Okongwu?

[benhillboy]

Got a little notice with the ESPN power rankings.  Noted he’s shot 50% or above in every game.

His Win Share/ 48 is now a nice and even .200.  That’s Montrez Harrell impact (and twice that of Jordan Clarkson). If OO stays healthy and ain’t a serious candidate for 6th Man they stupid.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 1/27/2022 at 9:45 AM, marco102 said:

I don't like this idea. Our frontline can be a major strength for us going forward.  Maybe trade Clint 23-24 if he's starting to decline or you have to pay OO, but for now we are fine.  Our SG and SF position has been fine after we've become healthy.

I'd prefer 48 minutes of well above average center play than 32. 

We will also need to find someone to rebound Clint.  OO's a solid rebounder, but he's no where near what Clint is.

 

I agree.  Keep both of them together for the next 2 or so years.  If anything, OO becomes the starter and Clint becomes the backup.  Or we have a situation in which Clint starts the game, but OO finishes it and plays the most minutes.  

[Atlantaholic]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

I agree.  Keep both of them together for the next 2 or so years.  If anything, OO becomes the starter and Clint becomes the backup.  Or we have a situation in which Clint starts the game, but OO finishes it and plays the most minutes.  

Of course that's ideal, but Clint is still young and playing for his next contract. You'll think he'll be kosher with taking a backup role? 

[Sothron]

17 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Of course that's ideal, but Clint is still young and playing for his next contract. You'll think he'll be kosher with taking a backup role? 

Clint got an extension. He's good. It is OO I am worried about.  You don't come out, completely outplay the starter and be told "you are just a bench player" year after year. 

[marco102]

9 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Clint got an extension. He's good. It is OO I am worried about.  You don't come out, completely outplay the starter and be told "you are just a bench player" year after year. 

That's the thing.  OO brings energy and is performing well. However, we saw him against Miami and the Timberwolves and he got completely loss when he wasn't defending the post up player.  There are still plenty of things that Clint does as far as defensive communication and recognition that he is way better at. 

OO can get mad all he wants, which I don't really think he does, but the Hawks have him under control for at minimum, the next four to five seasons. 

[Sothron]

4 minutes ago, marco102 said:

That's the thing.  OO brings energy and is performing well. However, we saw him against Miami and the Timberwolves and he got completely loss when he wasn't defending the post up player.  There are still plenty of things that Clint does as far as defensive communication and recognition that he is way better at. 

OO can get mad all he wants, which I don't really think he does, but the Hawks have him under control for at minimum, the next four to five seasons. 

You don't want to sour him on our franchise by then though. If we can find a deal in the offseason to move Capela and start OO then I would do it. I'm not saying we give Capela away because he certainly has value.

[Atlantaholic]

22 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Clint got an extension. He's good. It is OO I am worried about.  You don't come out, completely outplay the starter and be told "you are just a bench player" year after year. 

Clint signed just a two year extension he's a free agent in 2025 when he'll still bu just 30 years old. I don't think he will be thrilled to be a 20mpg guy for us pending his next free agency. 

[Sothron]

1 minute ago, Atlantaholic said:

Clint signed just a two year extension he's a free agent in 2025 when he'll still bu just 30 years old. I don't think he will be thrilled to be a 20mpg guy for us pending his next free agency. 

All the more reason to move him. OO is our future at center not Capela. OO is clearly better than Capela. Yes, it is great to have a 1/2 punch at center but that can't last forever nor should it. 

[marco102]

12 minutes ago, Sothron said:

You don't want to sour him on our franchise by then though. If we can find a deal in the offseason to move Capela and start OO then I would do it. I'm not saying we give Capela away because he certainly has value.

Why do y'all want to make this team weaker? 

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, Sothron said:

All the more reason to move him. OO is our future at center not Capela. OO is clearly better than Capela. Yes, it is great to have a 1/2 punch at center but that can't last forever nor should it. 

Yea, if this was NBA2K franchise mode then yes, we are sitting pretty. But as we've just seen with Cam Reddish in the NBA having a bunch of talent at the same position rarely equates to a harmonious environment where everyone is happy and maximized. Young players want their big first contract and old vets are also desperate to get as much as they can on what may be their final big deal. Unless we move on from John Collins and free up the PF spot for OO the notion we will be keeping both Clint and OO for many years seems incredibly unlikely to me. 

[Sothron]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Why do y'all want to make this team weaker? 

Because this isn't 2k22 where you can play two guys 24 minutes each and everyone is happy about it. OO needs more minutes to grow and mature as a player. Capela is a finished product. He'll never have any offense except as a rim runner. He will never improve his free throw shooting. He is a flawed player. He is a great rebounder and good defender so he has value.

But we have in OO a center that actually has touch around the rim. He is a rim runner AND can shoot the ball. He actually hits his free throws. He's a great defender and a good rebounder. He has so much more room to grow that only larger minutes and a larger role will bring out.

You can't keep two guys that should be starters forever. Unless they trade JC and put OO at PF then someone has to go at some point. Clearly that player should be Capela.

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Because this isn't 2k22 where you can play two guys 24 minutes each and everyone is happy about it. OO needs more minutes to grow and mature as a player. Capela is a finished product. He'll never have any offense except as a rim runner. He will never improve his free throw shooting. He is a flawed player. He is a great rebounder and good defender so he has value.

But we have in OO a center that actually has touch around the rim. He is a rim runner AND can shoot the ball. He actually hits his free throws. He's a great defender and a good rebounder. He has so much more room to grow that only larger minutes and a larger role will bring out.

You can't keep two guys that should be starters forever. Unless they trade JC and put OO at PF then someone has to go at some point. Clearly that player should be Capela.

Never said you couldn't trade Capela, but you don't weaken you team because someone isn't getting an extra six minutes a game.  The end game is to win a championship.  

Having two starting caliber centers in your rotations can do that.  If it's not broke, don't try to fix it. 

We aren't even a five hundred team and one of our biggest strengths you want to trade away, just because. 

Also, I'm pretty sure OO doesn't think he's better than Clint because he's said in plenty of interviews how Clint is teaching him so many nuances.  

Has OO been fantastic, for sure, but you might wish we had Clint when teams are killing us on the boards again. 

Edit:  This isn't saying you don't trade Clint, I just think this off season is a little early for that.  Unless you draft a center with projected similar rebounding ability.  Don't just trade Clint to create another issue.

Edited January 31, 2022 by marco102

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

Never said you couldn't trade Capela, but you don't weaken you team because someone isn't getting an extra six minutes a game.  The end game is to win a championship.  

Having two starting caliber centers in your rotations can do that.  If it's not broke, don't try to fix it. 

We aren't even a five hundred team and one of our biggest strengths you want to trade away, just because. 

Also, I'm pretty sure OO doesn't think he's better than Clint because he's said in plenty of interviews how Clint is teaching him so many nuances.  

Has OO been fantastic, for sure, but you might wish we had Clint when teams are killing us on the boards again. 

Bro, we are talking about in the future. We can't trade Capela this year. 

You know how many teams in NBA history have had two All-Star caliber centers on the team at the same time?

This stuff never happens for a reason. All-Star caliber players, which Clint is definitely IMO, don't like coming off the bench and tanking their value in the open market. Young All-Star potential players like OO don't like coming off the bench and nerfing their first big pay-day. These are realities of the NBA. 

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Bro, we are talking about in the future. We can't trade Capela this year. 

I'm aware of this. I'm talking about over the summer. It's way too soon in my opinion, unless we have another rebounding/ lob threat, they have in mind for cheaper. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by marco102

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

I'm talking about over the summer. It's way too soon in my opinion, unless we have another rebounding/ lob threat, they have in mind for cheaper. 

Firstly no one is saying we are in any urgency to get rid of anyone. However Clint is one of our most valueable trade pieces and he also happens to represent the clearest log-jam atm, so you can bet your ass we will be probing teams to gage his value starting this summer and throughout the length of his two year extension. 

Any trade that will get us another All-Starish type player say for example at SG where we have struggled to get consistent production would probably be a good move. Not saying this is a possibility but if we could get somone like Jaylen Brown for Cap and a pick or two... be stupid not to pull the trigger. 

[marco102]

9 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Firstly no one is saying we are in any urgency to get rid of anyone. However Clint is one of our most valueable trade pieces and he also happens to represent the clearest log-jam atm, so you can bet your ass we will be probing teams to gage his value starting this summer and throughout the length of his two year extension. 

Any trade that will get us another All-Starish type player say for example at SG where we have struggled to get consistent production would probably be a good move. Not saying this is a possibility but if we could get somone like Jaylen Brown for Cap and a pick or two... be stupid not to pull the trigger. 

I see the point you are making, but have you looked at our shooting guard and wing production during the winning streak? It's been fine now that we are healthy.  

I just don't see the point of moving Capela because you want to give OO more minutes.  That says to me you are moving him to move him. If we are moving him for a clear upgrade at a position then, cool.  

But Soth seems to want to move Clint to give OO more minutes.  There isn't even a logjam for minutes between the two.  Whoever is playing the best will get more minutes and close the game.  Yesterday, OO closed the game.  It's kind of like what we have with Kev and Bogi at this point, whoever is playing better will close.  

I'm terrified of going back to days of being out rebounded by every team in the league. 

[Gray Mule]

Gorgui Dieng is 31 right now and drawing $4 mil. annual salary.  Hawks have 3 first round picks.  If we lose our 3rd string center, which I expect, a great big old boy who can rebound and hit his free throws should be one of the three that are drafted.  In fact, Hawks might trade, 2 for 1, and move up in the draft.

Posters who are draft savvy and know who is available can tell us who fits that description that might be available when we draft.  

0017 needs another season under Capela before he becomes our second all star.  

[marco102]

1 minute ago, Gray Mule said:

Gorgui Dieng is 31 right now and drawing $4 mil. annual salary.  Hawks have 3 first round picks.  If we lose our 3rd string center, which I expect, a great big old boy who can rebound and hit his free throws should be one of the three that are drafted.  In fact, Hawks might trade, 2 for 1, and move up in the draft.

Posters who are draft savvy and know who is available can tell us who fits that description that might be available when we draft.  

0017 needs another season under Capela before he becomes our second all star.  

Uh Jalen Duren is a 6'11" big in the mold of Capela.  He's not a good freethrow shooter or three point shooter.  He has the potential to be a defensive beast if he puts it all together.  He's super young too. 

Mark Williams at Duke is a 7'0" that rebounds well and shoots free throws around 70%.  Full disclosure, I haven't watched many scouting videos on him. 

[Sothron]

6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I see the point you are making, but have you looked at our shooting guard and wing production during the winning streak? It's been fine now that we are healthy.  

I just don't see the point of moving Capela because you want to give OO more minutes.  That says to me you are moving him to move him. If we are moving him for a clear upgrade at a position then, cool.  

But Soth seems to want to move Clint to give OO more minutes.  There isn't even a logjam for minutes between the two.  Whoever is playing the best will get more minutes and close the game.  Yesterday, OO closed the game.  It's kind of like what we have with Kev and Bogi at this point, whoever is playing better will close.  

I'm terrified of going back to days of being out rebounded by every team in the league. 

Again, I did not say nor have I ever said we should just give Capela away. OO does need more minutes. Capela is going to take away valuable minutes that OO should get starting next season.  If a trade presents itself in the offseason where we can improve one of our other positions AND it moves Capela off the team so OO can start that's a win/win. 

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

I see the point you are making, but have you looked at our shooting guard and wing production during the winning streak? It's been fine now that we are healthy.  

I just don't see the point of moving Capela because you want to give OO more minutes.  That says to me you are moving him to move him. If we are moving him for a clear upgrade at a position then, cool.  

But Soth seems to want to move Clint to give OO more minutes.  There isn't even a logjam for minutes between the two.  Whoever is playing the best will get more minutes and close the game.  Yesterday, OO closed the game.  It's kind of like what we have with Kev and Bogi at this point, whoever is playing better will close.  

I'm terrified of going back to days of being out rebounded by every team in the league. 

All we are doing here is pointing out the reality that having two great players at the same position in the NBA is always transitory it never lasts. There's a salary cap, there is players playing for their livelihood, there is ego's. We just traded Cam away for peanuts because he was unhappy about his playing time and role and he's a career 38% shooter.