Free Agency 2020!!

[mrhonline]

6 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

What is a "team friendly" deal to you?

FWIW, the most another team can offer him next year is 4 yr, $120M (ish).  So, an average annual value (AAV) of ~$30M.

If the Hawks are willing to go to 5 years and offer the All-NBA escalators, they should be able to get that AAV down. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Dejay said:

I wish that you could record the conversation and download it here for us to listen to for kicks. Hayward turned heel on the Celtics like Ole Anderson did Dusty Rhodes at the old Omni.

Ain't it cool to see our team FOR ONCE go after (and actually sign) REAL players in the offseason? No more using Google to look up who Jim Les or Malcolm Delaney is or hope against hope that old Jerry Stackhouse, old John Bagley, or old Joe Smith got a little more tread left on the tires. 

IMHO, this offseason sends a clear message to the guys here, the fans, and the rest of the league that this isn't the Babcock, BK, or Rick Sund-era Hawks anymore. The years we spent on this board hearing them cry 'salary cap' while the East passed them by? Watching 1st round picks of theirs not working harder on their craft because their place in the lineup was etched in concrete? No more.

Feels good, doesn't it?

 

One of the all time great promos.  LOL @ the crowd chants.

 

 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

No way. 

Adebayo defends, scores on his own, and is dang near an elite playmaker for a big man.  Only Draymond Green is a better playmaker.

 

Capela can't do all of this.  And Draymond can't score like Bam can.

 

Bam is on track to being "mini-Giannis"

 

 

Capela is a real center though. He actually can shut Adebayo down. 

[Watchman]

5 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

No way. 

Adebayo defends, scores on his own, and is dang near an elite playmaker for a big man.  Only Draymond Green is a better playmaker.

 

Capela can't do all of this.  And Draymond can't score like Bam can.

 

Bam is on track to being "mini-Giannis"

 

 

And he is a comparable rebounder to Collins, and nothing near the scorer or perimeter shooter.  He is not even close to being the rebounder that Capela is.  He is not the shot blocker that either of them are.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

I like JC a lot, but to me the prudent thing to do is wait. Let's see how it all fits together this year before committing to a huge contract. Not sure why there's a rush to extend now just because you can. Remember JC and Capela haven't even played together. Let alone adding in Big O, Gallo, and the rest. 

Let it breathe. See how the season goes and then make your decision. 

I was an advocate of waiting until Schlenk decided to go all in with ALL our capspace this offseason. There really is no point it waiting until next offseason since we won't have ANY capspace to go after FAs. This is it. This is our team for the next year at $100.  We'll be locked in at $112 million (projected cap) with John's $12 mill caphold going into next season.

I say we have 2 years to figure out what happens with Huerter, Reddish and Hunter. Trae will have signed his early rookie extention, Collins extended (after the Bogi deal). Assuming no trades:

 In 2 years Gallo and Capela will both have 1 year left, Rondo and Dunn expired. Bogi with 1+1 left (if he signs).

Huerter will be a RFA - will he be a super sub or will he be to us what Bogi is the Sac, looking to move on for a starting spot. This year will tell a lot.

Reddish and Hunter will be eligible for early rookie extensions if they have been GOOD ENOUGH. If not they'll both hit RFA or we trade 1 or both like we did with Prince. 

Yes, we haven't seen the JC/Collins pairing, but why is the assumption that JC is the one that gets moved, maybe it's Capela. Just saying.

 

[REHawksFan]

17 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

LOL . . now it's "let it breathe".  The team wanted to get something done before the season, but now it's let's wait and see how he plays with lesser players?

What kind of message does that send to Collins, when all of the guys around him in his draft class are getting huge extensions?

 

So I look around the league, and I say to myself

"Self . . who are the big men ( PFs and Cs ) who are better than Collins"?

• Giannis
• Davis
• Jokic
• Towns
• Embiid
• Adebayo

Then I say . .

"Self . . would all of those guys get MAX contracts from a team"?

I say YES.

 

Then I look at this site:

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/playerstats/20/1/eff/1-1

and see that Collins ranks 12th in NBA efficiency . . . ( Trae is 15th, by the way )

((Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks) - ((Field goals attempts - Field goals made) + (Free throws attempts - Free throws made) + Turnovers)

 

Collins was the only player in the league last year to average more than 20 ppg, but have less than a 23% usage rate.  At that rate, he should've been averaging somewhere around 15 - 17 ppg, not damn near 22 ppg.

His numbers and efficiency SCREAM that he should be getting the ball more . . . a lot more . . . instead of deferring to guys who can't shoot or finish at the rim.  The 3 point volume should definitely be higher.

 

Just remember folks, paying these players MEGA dollars, is the cost of doing business as a playoff level team.   You don't win in this league without star power, and good complimentary guys.

Laugh all you want. The team controls JC. It makes little sense to extend him now. More info is always better than less info. Another season of data will help inform their decision. I'm not saying don't extend him. Just that now isn't the time. 

I don't care what message it sends to JC. If the Hawks want him long term they can sign him in a year. 

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, terrell said:

 

Rumor mill..lol

 

"Bogi just agreed to a 4yr 72mil deal. I’m guessing Bagley and John Collins are gonna be involved in that".

Who are these people....lol.

[REHawksFan]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I was an advocate of waiting until Schlenk decided to go all in with ALL our capspace this offseason. There really is no point it waiting until next offseason since we won't have ANY capspace to go after FAs. This is it. This is our team for the next year at $100.  We'll be locked in at $112 million (projected cap) with John's $12 mill caphold going into next season.

I say we have 2 years to figure out what happens with Huerter, Reddish and Hunter. Trae will have signed his early rookie extention, Collins extended (after the Bogi deal). Assuming no trades:

 In 2 years Gallo and Capela will both have 1 year left, Rondo and Dunn expired. Bogi with 1+1 left (if he signs).

Huerter will be a RFA - will he be a super sub or will he be to us what Bogi is the Sac, looking to move on for a starting spot. This year will tell a lot.

Reddish and Hunter will be eligible for early rookie extensions if they have been GOOD ENOUGH. If not they'll both hit RFA or we trade 1 or both like we did with Prince. 

Yes, we haven't seen the JC/Collins pairing, but why is the assumption that JC is the one that gets moved, maybe it's Capela. Just saying.

 

All of that makes sense from a cap perspective. I'm just saying it benefits the Hawks to wait. If JC doesn't work with the rest they can trade him or capela. Easier to do if he's still on a rookie deal. Just don't see the benefit of extending him early.  

Heck he could get hurt or have another drug penalty. Any number of things could happen. If you don't have to extend, why do it? 

[AHF]

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Tatum, Fox, and Mitchell got their money.

Collins should get similar type of money.  

Pay that man and get it over with.

We need to do what we need to do to keep Collins but we don’t need to go that high to keep him.  He isn’t our best player 3 years from now (or today) like those guys are for their teams.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Capela is a real center though. He actually can shut Adebayo down. 

Capela is elite defensively no doubt on that.  He just doesn't have all of the tools that Bam has.

 

5 minutes ago, Watchman said:

And he is a comparable rebounder to Collins, and nothing near the scorer or perimeter shooter.  He is not even close to being the rebounder that Capela is.  He is not the shot blocker that either of them are.

While true, neither of them are the playmaker that Bam is, or the perimeter defender that Bam is.    If given the choice, I'm probably choosing Bam among the 3 . . despite loving Collins' offensive potential.

[mrhonline]

1 minute ago, REHawksFan said:

If the Hawks want him long term they can sign him in a year. 

That's a great way to get a team to offer your guy a 2+1 at the max. Then he's gone after two years.

[Watchman]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Capela is elite defensively no doubt on that.  He just doesn't have all of the tools that Bam has.

 

While true, neither of them are the playmaker that Bam is, or the perimeter defender that Bam is.    If given the choice, I'm probably choosing Bam among the 3 . . despite loving Collins' offensive potential.

Fair enough.  There are arguments for each of them.

[REHawksFan]

1 minute ago, mrhonline said:

That's a great way to get a team to offer your guy a 2+1 at the max. Then he's gone after two years.

Maybe. Maybe not. Hawks can still offer 5 years at the max. JC is all star capable but he isn't a superstar. 5 years means a lot more than 2 for guys like him. Just my opinion. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

12 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I was an advocate of waiting until Schlenk decided to go all in with ALL our capspace this offseason. There really is no point it waiting until next offseason since we won't have ANY capspace to go after FAs. This is it. This is our team for the next year at $100.  We'll be locked in at $112 million (projected cap) with John's $12 mill caphold going into next season.

I say we have 2 years to figure out what happens with Huerter, Reddish and Hunter. Trae will have signed his early rookie extention, Collins extended (after the Bogi deal). Assuming no trades:

 In 2 years Gallo and Capela will both have 1 year left, Rondo and Dunn expired. Bogi with 1+1 left (if he signs).

Huerter will be a RFA - will he be a super sub or will he be to us what Bogi is the Sac, looking to move on for a starting spot. This year will tell a lot.

Reddish and Hunter will be eligible for early rookie extensions if they have been GOOD ENOUGH. If not they'll both hit RFA or we trade 1 or both like we did with Prince. 

Yes, we haven't seen the JC/Collins pairing, but why is the assumption that JC is the one that gets moved, maybe it's Capela. Just saying.

 

 

Excellent post.

 

[mrhonline]

Just now, REHawksFan said:

Maybe. Maybe not. Hawks can still offer 5 years at the max. JC is all star capable but he isn't a superstar. 5 years means a lot more than 2 for guys like him. Just my opinion. 

If you're just gonna offer a 5-yr max...just do it.

If you wait a year, other teams can sign him to an offer sheet.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, REHawksFan said:

Maybe. Maybe not. Hawks can still offer 5 years at the max. JC is all star capable but he isn't a superstar. 5 years means a lot more than 2 for guys like him. Just my opinion. 

If a team offers him a 2+1 RFA deal and he signs, that's it...Hawks either match or don't. No other alternatives.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Excellent post.

Thank you, but note I want him extended, just not a full max .  To me that's reserved for your cornerstone/superstar piece, like Trae. 21% of the cap is where I have him slotted.

[Watchman]

1 minute ago, mrhonline said:

If you're just gonna offer a 5-yr max...just do it.

If you wait a year, other teams can sign him to an offer sheet.

If I am on a team, and they don't offer me a long term contract, to me, it implies that they don't respect me that much.  I think Collins is deserving of a max or near max long term deal.  20/10 guys who shoot 58%/40%/80% don't grow on trees.  

[REHawksFan]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If a team offers him a 2+1 RFA deal and he signs, that's it...Hawks either match or don't. No other alternatives.

I get that. My point is they can offer him 5 years as a competitive offer. I mean, sure, JC could choose the 2+1 over a 5 yr max but I'd take that chance. I can't imagine JC would be so upset about not getting an early extension that he would turn down 3 guaranteed years. 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I get that. My point is they can offer him 5 years as a competitive offer. I mean, sure, JC could choose the 2+1 over a 5 yr max but I'd take that chance. I can't imagine JC would be so upset about not getting an early extension that he would turn down 3 guaranteed years. 

Then just offer it now as opposed to him having to shop around next offseason. It's a bad look and it creates unnecessary tension.