All-in trade idea: Harden for ....

[kelston827]

First, I loved the off-season moves and am as excited about Hawks basketball as I have been in a long time.

Second, I do expect them to exceed even the already “high” expectations of taking the next step to the playoffs. I think we’re better than Indy. And call me crazy, but I see Philly and / or Miami falling off this year.

All of that said, we can’t compete with Raptors or Celtics or Bucks. Is there a move that doesn’t kill our depth but still puts us in a better spot for a shot at the title? How about Harden for Hunter, Okungwu, Huerter, 1st? Would expect Rockets to demand Cam, but I wouldn’t make that deal. I would, however, not think twice about trading Hunter, Huerter, 1st. Losing Okungwu hurts, no doubt. But you don’t acquire someone like Harden without giving up talent.

Thoughts? I just don’t see us competing for a title, even with the recent improvements, without more.

Edited December 9, 2020 by kelston827

[kg01]

When has a harden-centric team competed for a title?

[NekiEcko]

I got one thing to say

[kelston827]

23 minutes ago, kg01 said:

When has a harden-centric team competed for a title?

So by that logic, Lakers never should have signed AD.

[NBASupes]

Atlanta is not on his list. It's best to avoid altogether for the Hawks

[BangHolman]

29 minutes ago, kelston827 said:

So by that logic, Lakers never should have signed AD.

That's a LeBron-centric Laker team, not an AD-centric. Some guys are just Robins.

[kg01]

58 minutes ago, kelston827 said:

So by that logic, Lakers never should have signed AD.

Wrong.  AD worked because he bought in due to his relationship with lebron.  I see no suggestion that'd be the case here, especially considering (as @NBASupes mentions) ATL isn't on his "list".

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, kelston827 said:

First, I loved the off-season moves and am as excited about Hawks basketball as I have been in a long time.

Second, I do expect them to exceed even the already “high” expectations of taking the next step to the playoffs. I think we’re better than Indy. And call me crazy, but I see Philly and / or Miami falling off this year.

All of that said, we can’t compete with Raptors or Celtics or Bucks. Is there a move that doesn’t kill our depth but still puts us in a better spot for a shot at the title? How about Harden for Hunter, Okungwu, Huerter, 1st? Would expect Rockets to demand Cam, but I wouldn’t make that deal. I would, however, not think twice about trading Hunter, Huerter, 1st. Losing Okungwu hurts, no doubt. But you don’t acquire someone like Harden without giving up talent.

Thoughts? I just don’t see us competing for a title, even with the recent improvements, without more.

Gonna be a hard pass for me. I'm not willing to give up on this group before they've even played a single game.  While they aren't winning a title this year, I'm not so sure they couldn't down the line. 

[Atlantaholic]

Harden is yesteryear's star. We got the next one coming and he has a chance at being better than Harden. Only way we get Harden is by giving up Trae and that ain't happening. 

[capstone21]

No interest in an iso aging Harden ... I don’t think he would mesh with our guys

[bleachkit]

Harden's ball dominant style concerns me. Heck, even Trae's ball dominant style concerns me a bit. 

[capstone21]

Plus, there isn’t many players I like watching less then Harden.  He is boring, iso, doing the lame falls for fouls, constant complaining to refs and his complete laziness on d.

[AHF]

Feel like people are going overboard with the Harden hate here.  His teams have won a ton of games without him having a true second star.  He is a superstar.  
 

I agree he probably isn’t the right fit for our team but you do a deal if the price is right and he wants to be here.  I suspect he doesn’t want to be here but let’s not pretend like he is Zach Lavine or Andrew Wiggins or something.  

[capstone21]

30 minutes ago, AHF said:

Feel like people are going overboard with the Harden hate here.  His teams have won a ton of games without him having a true second star.  He is a superstar.  
 

I agree he probably isn’t the right fit for our team but you do a deal if the price is right and he wants to be here.  I suspect he doesn’t want to be here but let’s not pretend like he is Zach Lavine or Andrew Wiggins or something.  

It doesn’t make him less boring

[kg01]

33 minutes ago, AHF said:

Feel like people are going overboard with the Harden hate here.  His teams have won a ton of games without him having a true second star.  He is a superstar.  
 

I agree he probably isn’t the right fit for our team but you do a deal if the price is right and he wants to be here.  I suspect he doesn’t want to be here but let’s not pretend like he is Zach Lavine or Andrew Wiggins or something.  

Regular season Lion-O, postseason Snarf...snarf.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Feel like people are going overboard with the Harden hate here.  His teams have won a ton of games without him having a true second star.  He is a superstar.  
 

I agree he probably isn’t the right fit for our team but you do a deal if the price is right and he wants to be here.  I suspect he doesn’t want to be here but let’s not pretend like he is Zach Lavine or Andrew Wiggins or something.  

He's 100% a superstar. Sadly, Harden comes with baggage. A lot of it. 

[RandomFan]

 

[thecampster]

10 hours ago, kelston827 said:

First, I loved the off-season moves and am as excited about Hawks basketball as I have been in a long time.

Second, I do expect them to exceed even the already “high” expectations of taking the next step to the playoffs. I think we’re better than Indy. And call me crazy, but I see Philly and / or Miami falling off this year.

All of that said, we can’t compete with Raptors or Celtics or Bucks. Is there a move that doesn’t kill our depth but still puts us in a better spot for a shot at the title? How about Harden for Hunter, Okungwu, Huerter, 1st? Would expect Rockets to demand Cam, but I wouldn’t make that deal. I would, however, not think twice about trading Hunter, Huerter, 1st. Losing Okungwu hurts, no doubt. But you don’t acquire someone like Harden without giving up talent.

Thoughts? I just don’t see us competing for a title, even with the recent improvements, without more.

First of all - I love your enthusiasm.

However, the NBA salary cap is an odd thing and unlike NBA 2k, you can't keep asking for the player you want and get him when the computer finally accepts on the 1% chance. There are rules. The Hawks are currently 5 millionish dollars over the nba salary cap. The Rockets are 29 million ish over the cap. Any trade between the two would need to be for within 25% of the incoming/outgoing salaries or in this case $4 million difference based on what Atlanta is sending out.  The players you suggested add up to $16 million in cap. Harden makes $41 million. We are $21 million away on salaries and as such is a non-starter.

 

"

Trading and the salary cap[edit]

• Teams below the salary cap may trade without regard to salary, as long as they don't end up more than $100,000 above the cap following a trade.
• Teams above the cap (or teams below the cap but would end up more than $100,000 over the cap following a trade) cannot acquire more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary they trade away. Under the 2011 CBA, teams that remain below the luxury tax threshold even after the trade can acquire the lesser of 150% plus $100,000, or 100% plus $5 million, of the salary they trade away.^[5] There is no lower limit—teams may divest themselves of as much salary as they wish (or can convince another team to take on) in a trade.
• No free agent signed in the offseason can be traded until December 15 of that year or until three months have passed (whichever comes later), a rule that prevents teams from signing free agents with the intent of using them strictly as trade fodder. For draft picks this moratorium lasts 30 days.
• If teams acquire a player in a trade, they are allowed to trade that player straight-up for another individual player immediately. However, if teams wish to package that player with another and trade for a more expensive player, they must wait 60 days before doing so.

The tight salary-matching rules of the 2005 CBA often required what NBA cap analyst Larry Coon called "trade ballast"—extra players added to a deal solely for salary matching, who would typically be waived by their new teams. Under that CBA, such players were restricted from rejoining their original teams for 30 days during the season or 20 days in the offseason. This led to what Coon called "wink-wink deals where players are traded with the full expectation of returning later." A notable example of such a deal occurred in the 2009–10 season, in which the Cleveland Cavaliers included Zydrunas Ilgauskas in their trade with the Washington Wizards for Antawn Jamison. Ilgauskas was waived a week later without ever appearing in a game for the Wizards, and re-signed with Cleveland after the 30-day waiting period passed. Since the 2011 CBA, a player acquired in a trade and waived by his new team cannot re-sign with his original team until one year after the trade or July 1 after the expiration of his contract, whichever is sooner.^[5]"

[JayBirdHawk]

11 hours ago, kelston827 said:

So by that logic, Lakers never should have signed AD.

AD requested a trade to LAL - big difference.

[macdaddy]

Harden makes zero sense in Atlanta and he doesn't want to be here so no.   But Harden could easily take the right team to the finals especially in the east.   If I'm the sixers i'm making it happen.