Snell will be squeezed out of minutes upon DAH & Cam's return for this reason

[Atlantaholic]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Bogi is still a streaky shooter and that has played out throughout his career.  Sure he has had a good stretch but so has many of the Hawks.  Cam is a better defender and is probably more valuable to the team once he gets coached up by Nate.  Everybody was ready to leave Okongwu for dead until Nate coached the guy up.  I would rather see a CAM-Hunter wing combo

of course you would, but no one else in their right mind would sub out Bogi out of the starting lineup for Cam or Huerter atm. Especially not Nate. 

[gHost83]

3 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

He is streaky, but Heurter is even more streaky, and his cold streaks are way worse than Bogi's cold streaks. Bogi may be in a hot streak right now but the fact is he has scored over 20 points in 5 out of his last 10 games VS. Huerter who has scored 20 or more points in 5 out of his last 50.

Agreed bro. Huerter can't get to the line or facilitate like Bogi can when his shot isn't going down. 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

He is streaky, but Heurter is even more streaky, and his cold streaks are way worse than Bogi's cold streaks. Bogi may be in a hot streak right now but the fact is he has scored over 20 points in 5 out of his last 10 games VS. Huerter who has scored 20 or more points in 5 out of his last 50.

Huerter is young but like I said my preference is Cam at the 2.  Imagine what Cam would have done to Curry.  Huerter couldn't guard him and Bogi is a worse point of attack defense player than Huerter.  The question might be whether to chose Huerter or Bogi long term.  I say Huerter because Hueter's problem is that he is still weak and hopefully over time he will get stronger.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

of course you would, but no one else in their right mind would sub out Bogi out of the starting lineup for Cam or Huerter atm. Especially not Nate. 

Why do you guys have to talk like this all of the time

[Atlantaholic]

2 minutes ago, gHost83 said:

Agreed bro. Huerter can't get to the line or facilitate like Bogi can when his shot isn't going down. 

Bogi is a much more versatile offensive player overall. I actually do think they are similar players, but Bogi is just a little better pretty much at everything including defense. Cam is a work in progress, in the bottom 10th percentile in every metric that exists save for defense. 

[Peoriabird]

Just now, Atlantaholic said:

. Cam is a work in progress, in the bottom 10th percentile in every metric that exists save for defense. 

So was Bogi at one point this year

[Peoriabird]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

So was Bogi at one point this year

But last year, Cam had a stretch just like Bogi and every one was excited about Cam too

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Bogi is a much more versatile offensive player overall. I actually do think they are similar players, but Bogi is just a little better pretty much at everything including defense. Cam is a work in progress, in the bottom 10th percentile in every metric that exists save for defense. 

In fact, Cam's run last year was a much larger sample size than Bogi's this year.

[Atlantaholic]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Why do you guys have to talk like this all of the time

Apologies, but if you can't recognize Bogi has played stellar basketball during what has now become a lengthy stretch, you aren't being very objective. Bogi last year was ranked as  top 85 player in both net Raptor and WAR, while Heurter and Reddish didn't crack the top 210. Even if we disregard his hot streak and assume he will regress to his career mean he is still historically much more valueable than anything Huerter or Cam have shown. Yes, we all agree Reddish has fantastic potential and could become the 2 guard of the future over Bogi, for sure. But atm, Bogi is by far the most accomplished 2 guard and the hottest 2 guard on the team. Those are facts.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Atlantaholic said:

Apologies, but if you can't recognize Bogi has played stellar basketball during what has now become a lengthy stretch, you aren't being very objective. Bogi last year was ranked as  top 85 player in both net Raptor and WAR, while Heurter and Reddish didn't crack the top 210. Even if we disregard his hot streak and assume he will regress to his career mean he is still historically much more valueable than anything Huerter or Cam have shown. Yes, we all agree Reddish has fantastic potential and could become the 2 guard of the future over Bogi, for sure. But atm, Bogi is by far the most accomplished 2 guard and the hottest 2 guard on the team. Those are facts.

I've acknowledged Bogi's hot streak but i also acknowledged Cam's hot streak which was much longer.  Right now, Bogi is the better offensive player but Bogi is below average on defense..  Lou William is a better offensive player than all of them so based on your theory, Lou Should be starting at the 2.  And clearly Gallo is a better offensive player than Solomon Hill.  My point is that your starting line up has to be balanced.  I think that Cam balances this starting line up more than Bogi does.

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

I've acknowledged Bogi's hot streak but i also acknowledged Cam's hot streak which was much longer.  Right now, Bogi is the better offensive player but Bogi is below average on defense..  Lou William is a better offensive player than all of them so based on your theory, Lou Should be starting at the 2.  And clearly Gallo is a better offensive player than Solomon Hill.  My point is that your starting line up has to be balanced.  I think that Cam balances this starting line up more than Bogi does.

No, it doesn't because you are overrating his defense, it's as if Cam's defensive stinkers don't exist in your memory. Cam has been wildly inconsistent on both ends, and both this year and last year he has rated as a net neutral defensive player just slightly above Bogi, while also not being in the same universe offensively.

 https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/

[Peoriabird]

Just now, Atlantaholic said:

No, it doesn't because you are overrating his defense, it's as if Cam's defensive stinkers don't exist in your memory. Cam has been wildly inconsistent on both ends, and both this year and last year he has rated as a net neutral defensive player just slightly above Bogi, while also not being in the same universe offensively.

 https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/

My point has always been we shall see what Cam can do under Nate.  I think he has way more talent than Bogi but was utilized horribly under that coach who shall remain nameless

[AHF]

27 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

My point has always been we shall see what Cam can do under Nate.  I think he has way more talent than Bogi but was utilized horribly under that coach who shall remain nameless

I'm excited to see what Cam does under Nate but Bogi is the obvious best choice as our starting SG based both on what these 3 have shown over their careers and what they have done this season.  The ideal will be Cam continuing to improve to the point where he becomes the obvious "must-start" guy.  I see Huerter's role as a plus rotation player off the bench and have trouble seeing him ever winning out long-term over Bogi (who is better at basically everything other than shooting the ball today and I'm giving Huerter extra credit to be considered competitive in that category given how large Bogi's edge is in TS% for their 3 and 4 year track records).  Bogi sits over .550 while Huerter parks near .530 and that is a big difference but I'll give Huerter the benefit of the doubt that he can get to the line some more and do some things to bring that up over time.

Cam definitely has the highest upside of the 3 to me but Bogi is easily the best performer this year and career to date.  There is a point in debating who should be the guy in 3 years but for this season I can't see any justification for suggesting anyone but Bogi should be the guy this year outside of simply predicting a leap (which could be done with the same thought process taken one step further to advocate starting Bruno over Capela by predicting Bruno becomes the next Wilt all of a sudden).

We saw a segment of the Hawks fandom started reaching early this year when Bogi slumped and somehow disregarded his 3 years worth of track record to conclude he was a bust or the next [insert hated coach or player] or whatever insult came to mind.  Look at his track record and it should give you the best sense for the baseline of overall play you would suggest for him here.  It shouldn't be surprising to see his per minute and ratio numbers all coming into the realm of his career averages.  

If he can stay healthy, he should be in a good position to continue that improved play and maybe even end up exceeding what he has done career-to-date by some measure.  Because I think Nate is using him in a way that does a lot more to position him and the team for success than what we saw when he was hurt or when LP was calling the shots.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'm excited to see what Cam does under Nate but Bogi is the obvious best choice as our starting SG based both on what these 3 have shown over their careers and what they have done this season.  The ideal will be Cam continuing to improve to the point where he becomes the obvious "must-start" guy.  I see Huerter's role as a plus rotation player off the bench and have trouble seeing him ever winning out long-term over Bogi (who is better at basically everything other than shooting the ball today and I'm giving Huerter extra credit to be considered competitive in that category given how large Bogi's edge is in TS% for their 3 and 4 year track records).

Cam definitely has the highest upside of the 3 to me but Bogi is easily the best performer this year and career to date.  There is a point in debating who should be the guy in 3 years but for this season I can't see any justification for suggesting anyone but Bogi should be the guy this year outside of simply predicting a leap (which could be done with the same thought process taken one step further to advocate starting Bruno over Capela by predicting Bruno becomes the next Wilt all of a sudden).

Lets just talk 2 years from now...What do you do with Huerter and Cam.  Both will have either received their extension or up for extension.  Put your GM hat on...What do you do?  Do you resign Huerter and Cam or just 1?

[Atlantaholic]

20 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'm excited to see what Cam does under Nate but Bogi is the obvious best choice as our starting SG based both on what these 3 have shown over their careers and what they have done this season.  The ideal will be Cam continuing to improve to the point where he becomes the obvious "must-start" guy.  I see Huerter's role as a plus rotation player off the bench and have trouble seeing him ever winning out long-term over Bogi (who is better at basically everything other than shooting the ball today and I'm giving Huerter extra credit to be considered competitive in that category given how large Bogi's edge is in TS% for their 3 and 4 year track records).  Bogi sits over .550 while Huerter parks near .530 and that is a big difference but I'll give Huerter the benefit of the doubt that he can get to the line some more and do some things to bring that up over time.

Cam definitely has the highest upside of the 3 to me but Bogi is easily the best performer this year and career to date.  There is a point in debating who should be the guy in 3 years but for this season I can't see any justification for suggesting anyone but Bogi should be the guy this year outside of simply predicting a leap (which could be done with the same thought process taken one step further to advocate starting Bruno over Capela by predicting Bruno becomes the next Wilt all of a sudden).

We saw a segment of the Hawks fandom started reaching early this year when Bogi slumped and somehow disregarded his 3 years worth of track record to conclude he was a bust or the next [insert hated coach or player] or whatever insult came to mind.  Look at his track record and it should give you the best sense for the baseline of overall play you would suggest for him here.  It shouldn't be surprising to see his per minute and ratio numbers all coming into the realm of his career averages.  

If he can stay healthy, he should be in a good position to continue that improved play and maybe even end up exceeding what he has done career-to-date by some measure.  Because I think Nate is using him in a way that does a lot more to position him and the team for success than what we saw when he was hurt or when LP was calling the shots.

Also, Sacramento was not using him that well last season he was there. I think Bogi's best basketball is yet to come personally, and I don't think he has shown his peak. 

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Lets just talk 2 years from now...What do you do with Huerter and Cam.  Both will have either received their extension or up for extension.  Put your GM hat on...What do you do?  Do you resign Huerter and Cam or just 1?

What you do depends on your options and player development.  If all 3 reach their potential, it would be great to have them all ala GS with Iggy, Durant and Klay all on $$ deals along with Curry and Green.

If you get a good enough offer to trade one of them, then that could be an option.  Between those 3, if I had to pick 2 of the 3 it would Cam and one of Huerter or Bogi.  

From a GM perspective, you are going to be dropping some big money off the table as Gallo's deal ends, etc. which should give you the flexibility to keep your guys until you decide you want to trade them or they become UFA and you can't control what they do.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

What you do depends on your options and player development.

This is what I've been saying...We have to wait and see

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

This is what I've been saying...We have to wait and see

We have to wait and see for 2 years down the road.  We don't have to wait and see for this season.  Bogi has separated himself from the pack for this year and it isn't close.

If this was the first time Bogi had put up these numbers in his career, I would agree that you need to wait and get a bigger sample size but what he is doing this year is what he has done before over 200+ games.  If he was deviating significantly from his prior 200 games (either significantly better or worse), then wait and see if the deviation represents a new baseline.  But he has returned to a baseline already established over a meaningful number of games and seasons, so I see zero reason not to buy into this right now.

[Spud2nique]

Cam and Bogi are different players but both really good ballers in my mind. We can’t sleep on Cam because he hasn’t played in a minute. At least I’m not sleeping on him. His tools are impeccable but he needs to put it all together and get healthy first and foremost to do so. 

[AHF]

23 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Cam and Bogi are different players but both really good ballers in my mind. We can’t sleep on Cam because he hasn’t played in a minute. At least I’m not sleeping on him. His tools are impeccable but he needs to put it all together and get healthy first and foremost to do so. 

I came into this year more excited about him than I was Hunter.  During that first stretch of the season, Hunter exceeded my expectations.  Year to date Cam has fallen well short of them.  I am still a Cam believer and wouldn't consider trading him right now (because I assume the offers would be garbage compared to what I think his ceiling looks like).  His development is important for our future championship aspirations.  No sleeping on him but man it has been a rough season for him offensively.  Hope when he eventually returns he is out of the rut that he was in.  He seems like a player whose shooting is really dependent on his state of mind and when he gets in a groove it is great but when he loses confidence it is really hard.