Official Game Thread: Hawks at Knicks

[Thomas]

8 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

On a positive note, Capela 25/22. Another 20/20 game he’s been a godsend.

Believe I said I would be quite about Capela for a while so....man, these urges.

[Atlantaholic]

7 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Julius Randle....ugh. Just can't believe this is the same guy that played for the Lakers. Remember many of us thought his stats were empty when he had them back then. Not now.

He was always good, but he's a completely different player now. I really can't recall a player just completely transforming their game the way he did 7 seasons in, it's incredibly impressive. He's been a top 10ish player this year. 

[Thomas]

The Knicks play like Pat Riley is the coach again. That was the mean version of Riley.

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, Thomas said:

The Knicks play like Pat Riley is the coach again. That was the mean version of Riley.

Yea, they are a very good team. Not better than us if we were halfway healthy, but still pretty good. 

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Yea, they are a very good team. Not better than us if we were halfway healthy, but still pretty good. 

Can't deny they're playing well.  Confident and hard-playing.

Seeing us seize control of the game until Trae gets hurt was pretty impressive.  I'd love to see us face off with our full compliment of players.

On a side note, how are people saying Randle is a guy that should be on 'the list' of MVP candidates but Trae isn't?

[Atlantaholic]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Can't deny they're playing well.  Confident and hard-playing.

Seeing us seize control of the game until Trae gets hurt was pretty impressive.  I'd love to see us face off with our full compliment of players.

On a side note, how are people saying Randle is a guy that should be on 'the list' of MVP candidates but Trae isn't?

Until Trae stops ranking bottom 10 in the entire NBA on defense, he won't be getting MVP consideration.

And I love Trae,, and think that without him we don't have a contender any time soon... but he isn't even the MVP on the team atm, that is Cap by an extremely wide margin. Without Randle the Knicks don't make the play in. Without Trae this Hawks team will be at around .500 IMO. 

Though I'd like to point out Randle is not in any shape way or form, in the running for MVP, so this conversaiton is a little strange. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Atlantaholic

[Thomas]

3 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Without Cap this Hawks team is battling the Raptors and Wiz for the last play in spot. 

Capela has made me forget those years just prior to him being on the floor for us. Night and day in the paint. A huge move up for us.

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Until Trae stops ranking bottom 10 in the entire NBA on defense, he won't be getting MVP consideration.

And I love Trae,, and think that without him we don't have a contender any time soon... but he isn't even the MVP on the team atm, that is Cap, by an extremely wide margin. Without Randle the Knicks don't make the play in. Without Trae this Hawks team will be at around .500 IMO. Without Cap this Hawks team is battling the Raptors and Wiz for the last play in spot. 

Agree to disagree.  As impactful as Captain Planet has been, the team still goes as Trae goes.

And Randle is a poor defender too.

To be clear, I'm not saying Trae should be in the conversation.  I'm saying, if Randle is then Trae should be as well.

[Atlantaholic]

8 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Capela has made me forget those years just prior to him being on the floor for us. Night and day in the paint. A huge move up for us.

He is our defense. Without him on the floor we are probably the worst defensive team in the NBA. Now Trae is definitely the offensive MVP, there's no doubt about that, but with Bogi coming on, Lou Will off the bench who can catch fire at any time, and if Gallo comes back, there is plenty of fire power that can make up for his absence, at least some games. Without Cap we are toast though, there isn't a single player on the squad that can replace his defensive contribution even remotely. 

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Agree to disagree.  As impactful as Captain Planet has been, the team still goes as Trae goes.

And Randle is a poor defender too.

To be clear, I'm not saying Trae should be in the conversation.  I'm saying, if Randle is then Trae should be as well.

Randle is not a poor defender. AT all. He ranks top 35 in defensive Raptor rating this year. Knicks overall 2nd in defensive rating as a unit. In regurlad defensive Rating he ranks second best behind Noel among regulars. Meanwhile Trae is worst among regulars. 

Oh, and niether player is in the conversation really. Right now it's between Nikola, Embiid and Steph Curry. But Randle would be more deserving of the two players for sure, at least going off of this year alone. Trae has been VERY up and down. Randle has been more consistent, and is a two way player this year. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Atlantaholic

[Dnice]

Mood til May..

 

 

[Gray Mule]

You know the old man says, "Hit your free throws if you expect to win those tight games."

Another one of those games.  Tied in regulation.  Missed free throws.  Loss in overtime.

Trae was carrying the team with his play, even if he was missing shots.  Insane Knickerbockers shooting from the downtown.  At one time, 80% and they still couldn't bury the Hawks.  They are very, very good and they proved it in overtime.  They won all their games against the Hawks.  Yet, we are only 1/2 game behind them.

From what the announcers were saying last night, Dunn should be available soon if this makes any difference now.  Maybe he can give us a minute or two here and there while Trae heals.

IF, and it ain't happening, if our team was 100% healthy we could beat NY.  If they end up 4th or 5th and we have the other spot, I believe 4th & 5th meet in the 1st round playoffs.  Ugh.

GET WELL ATL HAWKS !!

[Thomas]

4 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

From what the announcers were saying last night, Dunn should be available soon if this makes any difference now.  Maybe he can give us a minute or two here and there while Trae heals.

Proof is in the pudding....right?

[JayBirdHawk]

20 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Agree to disagree.  As impactful as Captain Planet has been, the team still goes as Trae goes.

This^^^.

Until the Hawks prove they can win (and win consistently) against the good teams without Trae - it's still him.

[Spud2nique]

37 minutes ago, kg01 said:

On a side note, how are people saying Randle is a guy that should be on 'the list' of MVP candidates but Trae isn't?

There is a thread on realgm that asks who should make up the 6 guards for the all NBA teams this year and some poster put Randle.  

Man, not only did he change his game over the past few years but apparently his position on the court as well. So is he like Magic Johnson now?  

Edited April 22, 2021 by Spud2nique

[kg01]

23 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

He is our defense. Without him on the floor we are probably the worst defensive team in the NBA. Now Trae is definitely the offensive MVP, there's no doubt about that, but with Bogi coming on, Lou Will off the bench who can catch fire at any time, and if Gallo comes back, there is plenty of fire power that can make up for his absence, at least some games. Without Cap we are toast though, there isn't a single player on the squad that can replace his defensive contribution even remotely. 

Randle is not a poor defender. AT all. He ranks top 35 in defensive Raptor rating this year. Knicks overall 2nd in defensive rating as a unit. In regurlad defensive Rating he ranks second best behind Noel among regulars. Meanwhile Trae is worst among regulars. 

Oh, and niether player is in the conversation really. Right now it's between Nikola, Embiid and Steph Curry. But Randle would be more deserving of the two players for sure, at least going off of this year alone. Trae has been VERY up and down. Randle has been more consistent, and is a two way player this year. 

Your most salient point is that neither guy is in the conversation so we really shouldn't be going at it over this. 

I agree our other offensive weapons should mitigate Trae's impact but saying what they should be ignores the fact that Trae's been present throughout their absences/struggles.

I reject, patently reject, defensive metrics because there's no true way to capture "defensive impact" analytically.  It's all subjective.  Randle's positive ratings are simply reflective of the equations(sic) including rebounding.  That's why, analytically, guys like Andre Drummond are rated well.

The fact that the Knicks are a good defensive unit boosts his ratings as well.

[marco102]

34 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

He is our defense. Without him on the floor we are probably the worst defensive team in the NBA. Now Trae is definitely the offensive MVP, there's no doubt about that, but with Bogi coming on, Lou Will off the bench who can catch fire at any time, and if Gallo comes back, there is plenty of fire power that can make up for his absence, at least some games. Without Cap we are toast though, there isn't a single player on the squad that can replace his defensive contribution even remotely. 

Randle is not a poor defender. AT all. He ranks top 35 in defensive Raptor rating this year. Knicks overall 2nd in defensive rating as a unit. In regurlad defensive Rating he ranks second best behind Noel among regulars. Meanwhile Trae is worst among regulars. 

Oh, and niether player is in the conversation really. Right now it's between Nikola, Embiid and Steph Curry. But Randle would be more deserving of the two players for sure, at least going off of this year alone. Trae has been VERY up and down. Randle has been more consistent, and is a two way player this year. 

It seems like you agreeing and splitting hairs. If someone is going to say Randle is in the mvp conversation because his team is in 4th, then Trae should be too. The point is they go to extensive lengths not to discuss Trae in high regard. I mean it is also because 70% of national media are Knicks fans, but still you shouldn't have Randle or Trae in a top five mvp.

Through three quarters yesterday, Trae had dominated the Knicks and Randle. It was D. Rose and the backups who kept them in that game. Trae mainly destroyed them with his passing. If Randle isn't scoring, he can't effect  the game like Trae, but we won't hear about that.

Edited April 22, 2021 by marco102

[Thomas]

Gonna say as both Trae and Clint go. We were pretty consistently losing (minus that late hot streak at the end of one year) before they were on the floor together. Can't afford to go into the playoffs without either one. With that note am so hoping Hunter, Gallo, Snell and Dunn are at least pretty close to 100% by that time. 

[Spud2nique]

The Knicks have big goofy that’s about the only thing I know about them. Oh, and they’ll get bounced in round one because they are one dimensional. 

[kg01]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

It seems like you agreeing and splitting hairs. If someone is going to say Randle is in the mvp conversation because his team is in 4th, then Trae should be too. The point is they go to extensive lengths not to discuss Trae in high regard. I mean it is also because 70% of national media are Knicks fans, but still you shouldn't have Randle or Trae in a top five mvp.

Through three quarters yesterday, Trae had dominated the Knicks and Randle. It was D. Rose and the backups who kept them in that game. He mainly destroyed then with his passing. If Randle isn't scoring, he can't effect  the game like Trae, but we won't hear about that.

This is a better representation of what I'm complaining about.  Pay attention to marco, @Atlantaholic, I'm rambling in our non-argument. 

[Thomas]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

The Knicks have big goofy that’s about the only thing I know about them. Oh, and they’ll get bounced in round one because they are one dimensional. 

Something in their favor for the playoffs is the way refs swallow the whistle in general post season. Want to face and upset the Boston fans first round though anyway.