KEEPERS !!

[JeffS17]

The only person I can see getting traded, assuming he would agree, would be Bogi.  He's sort of the odd man out in terms of age, timeline, and overlapping skillset.  I don't want to trade Bogi, and I don't think we'll trade Bogi, but if we were to land an all-NBA type player in a trade, I feel like he'd be the centerpiece and a bunch of picks/filler.

[RandomFan]

First, let's look at the key dates for the offseason: 

• July 23 to Aug. 8: Toyko Olympics
• July 29: 2021 NBA draft
• Aug. 2: Free agency negotiations can begin at 5 p.m. Central
• Aug. 3: Official start of 2021-22 league year; brief moratorium period begins on transactions
• Aug. 6: Moratorium period ends at 11:01 a.m. Central, allowing free agents to be signed and trades to be executed
• Aug. 8-17: NBA Summer League in Las Vegas
• Sept. 28: Training camps open
• Oct. 19: Regular season begins

I bring this up to point out the draft happens before free agency; our draft pick will likely influence how we fill out the remaining roster, whether he's a player we think can be in the rotation, or a guy that needs time in the G league, or a draft and stash euro. Whoever he is, it's gonna affect our other free agent decisions because unlike previous years when we had spaces galore for just about anyone, our roster is deep now and spotss are limited. 

I personally think we are going to draft a Guard because Travis already said the backup PG spot is our biggest need and it's a deep draft for that position so we should still get good value there at #20. Obviously if there is a better player at a different spot then we have to take him, but Guard is my current guess. 

If not guard, then I'd guess probably a potential stretch 4 as an eventual Gallo replacement (likely after the 2021-22 season). A Wing is probably our least preferred option behind Cam, Hunter, Bogi, Heurter, and Mays/Dunn. 

1. Trae
2. Hunter
3. Bogi
4. Huerter
5. Cam
6. Okongwu
7. Gallo
8. Capela
9. 1st rd pick #20

10. Collins: re-sign or match offer. Even if it's a ridiculous offer we have to match it for at least this season to run this group back to see how far we can get. Unless there is a ridiculous offer to SnT him, which most likely won't happen. We can always trade him in the future if needed when salaries start adding up in the luxury tax. 

11. Backup PG: whoever it ends up being. It could be #20, but I highly doubt we're gonna go into a title contending season with a #20 rookie as our primary backup PG option. If we get someone we really like for this spot at #20, then bringing back Lou for a 1 year stop-gap season makes sense. Or it could be a higher profile vet like D. Rose or McConnell, possibly still with a #20 rookie behind him. Again I think the draft will influence this. If we don't draft for this spot, then we need to spend some money on a decent backup on a 2 or 3 year contract, someone we can keep around a few years. 

-- The rest really depends on our draft pick at #20, and if Dunn opts in and/or if we keep or trade him.

12. Nate Knight (or another big man with Knight going back to the G-League on a 2-way contract)

13. Solo - I want Solo on this roster. When contracts start adding up you are going to be forced to have players on your roster that are on veteran minimum contracts. He plays for that, and while he clearly has his limitations, you aren't going to find many better players at that price point.  He's good in the locker room, takes younger players under his wing, can still give us regular season minutes, just keep him away from floor in the playoffs. 

14. Dunn: Will 99% for sure pick up his player option after his lost injury season since he won't sniff a $5M offer on the open market. Good chance he is traded if he picks up his option, but we'd likely have to attach an asset like a 2nd round pick to move him. If he returns, don't even count him in the PG rotation. Travis said it last season when he signed him, Dunn is an off-guard that is in for defense not to run the point. Maybe he can be the emergency 3rd PG if we don't fill that spot, but that's about it. 

14. Mays (If Dunn stays on the roster it would be very hard to keep Mays on the active 15. We might have to risk moving him to one of our 2-way contracts and let him get more playing time in the G-League. I do think he has a shot at joining the rotation at SG in the 2022-23 season *IF* we are forced to part with Bogi due to contract issues and if Dunn isn't still around. 

-- Counted Dunn and Mays both as #14. We can probably keep one, not both. 

15. Probably Depends on the #20 draft pick. If we draft a PG, then this probably needs to be a backup Center or Wing. If we don't draft a PG, then this needs to be PG #3 unless the team gets a whole lot more confidence in Dunn for that spot (not likely). 

2-way contract potential: Knight and Mays. I've currently got them on the team (depending on Dunn) but I could easily see us sending one or both of them to the G-League if we can add some higher caliber backups for their spots. Depends how much of our salary space we spend on the backup PG spots. 

Don't re-sign: 

• Snell
• Goodwin (going with Supes info that he won't be back, was an LP pet project). 
• Lou possibly
• Bruno (while he's currently under contract I highly doubt he returns. His salary isn't far off from an empty cap charge, so even if we can't trade him, releasing him and then signing a vet minimum player is close to the same thing. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by RandomFan

[Final_quest]

40 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

The only person I can see getting traded, assuming he would agree, would be Bogi.  He's sort of the odd man out in terms of age, timeline, and overlapping skillset.  I don't want to trade Bogi, and I don't think we'll trade Bogi, but if we were to land an all-NBA type player in a trade, I feel like he'd be the centerpiece and a bunch of picks/filler.

I want to see if Bogi comes back healthy and can consistently be a best in class 3 point threat.  He nearly led the league in 3 point shooting the last 2 1/2 months.  

No one else on the team is high volume and high percentage shooter like him.   

[Peoriabird]

34 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

First, let's look at the key dates for the offseason: 

• July 23 to Aug. 8: Toyko Olympics
• July 29: 2021 NBA draft
• Aug. 2: Free agency negotiations can begin at 5 p.m. Central
• Aug. 3: Official start of 2021-22 league year; brief moratorium period begins on transactions
• Aug. 6: Moratorium period ends at 11:01 a.m. Central, allowing free agents to be signed and trades to be executed
• Aug. 8-17: NBA Summer League in Las Vegas
• Sept. 28: Training camps open
• Oct. 19: Regular season begins

I bring this up to point out the draft happens before free agency; our draft pick will likely influence how we fill out the remaining roster, whether he's a player we think can be in the rotation, or a guy that needs time in the G league, or a draft and stash euro. Whoever he is, it's gonna affect our other free agent decisions because unlike previous years when we had spaces galore for just about anyone, our roster is deep now and spotss are limited. 

I personally think we are going to draft a Guard because Travis already said the backup PG spot is our biggest need and it's a deep draft for that position so we should still get good value there at #20. Obviously if there is a better player at a different spot then we have to take him, but Guard is my current guess. 

If not guard, then I'd guess probably a potential stretch 4 as an eventual Gallo replacement (likely after the 2021-22 season). A Wing is probably our least preferred option behind Cam, Hunter, Bogi, Heurter, and Mays/Dunn. 

1. Trae
2. Hunter
3. Bogi
4. Huerter
5. Cam
6. Okongwu
7. Gallo
8. Capela
9. 1st rd pick #20

10. Collins: re-sign or match offer. Even if it's a ridiculous offer we have to match it for at least this season to run this group back to see how far we can get. Unless there is a ridiculous offer to SnT him, which most likely won't happen. We can always trade him in the future if needed when salaries start adding up in the luxury tax. 

11. Backup PG: whoever it ends up being. It could be #20, but I highly doubt we're gonna go into a title contending season with a #20 rookie as our primary backup PG option. If we get someone we really like for this spot at #20, then bringing back Lou for a 1 year stop-gap season makes sense. Or it could be a higher profile vet like D. Rose or McConnell, possibly still with a #20 rookie behind him. Again I think the draft will influence this. If we don't draft for this spot, then we need to spend some money on a decent backup on a 2 or 3 year contract, someone we can keep around a few years. 

-- The rest really depends on our draft pick at #20, and if Dunn opts in and/or if we keep or trade him.

12. Nate Knight (or another big man with Knight going back to the G-League on a 2-way contract)

13. Solo - I want Solo on this roster. When contracts start adding up you are going to be forced to have players on your roster that are on veteran minimum contracts. He plays for that, and while he clearly has his limitations, you aren't going to find many better players at that price point.  He's good in the locker room, takes younger players under his wing, can still give us regular season minutes, just keep him away from floor in the playoffs. 

14. Dunn: Will 99% for sure pick up his player option after his lost injury season since he won't sniff a $5M offer on the open market. Good chance he is traded if he picks up his option, but we'd likely have to attach an asset like a 2nd round pick to move him. If he returns, don't even count him in the PG rotation. Travis said it last season when he signed him, Dunn is an off-guard that is in for defense not to run the point. Maybe he can be the emergency 3rd PG if we don't fill that spot, but that's about it. 

14. Mays (If Dunn stays on the roster it would be very hard to keep Mays on the active 15. We might have to risk moving him to one of our 2-way contracts and let him get more playing time in the G-League. I do think he has a shot at joining the rotation at SG in the 2022-23 season *IF* we are forced to part with Bogi due to contract issues and if Dunn isn't still around. 

-- Counted Dunn and Mays both as #14. We can probably keep one, not both. 

15. Probably Depends on the #20 draft pick. If we draft a PG, then this probably needs to be a backup Center or Wing. If we don't draft a PG, then this needs to be PG #3 unless the team gets a whole lot more confidence in Dunn for that spot (not likely). 

2-way contract potential: Knight and Mays. I've currently got them on the team (depending on Dunn) but I could easily see us sending one or both of them to the G-League if we can add some higher caliber backups for their spots. Depends how much of our salary space we spend on the backup PG spots. 

Don't re-sign: 

• Snell
• Goodwin (going with Supes info that he won't be back, was an LP pet project). 
• Lou possibly
• Bruno (while he's currently under contract I highly doubt he returns. His salary isn't far off from an empty cap charge, so even if we can't trade him, releasing him and then signing a vet minimum player is close to the same thing. 

You think we would go with a rookie as our primary back up point guard?

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Final_quest said:

I want to see if Bogi comes back healthy and can consistently be a best in class 3 point threat.  He nearly led the league in 3 point shooting the last 2 1/2 months.  

No one else on the team is high volume and high percentage shooter like him.   

He obviously isn't that kind of shooter.  You can't just ignore 4 year of data and take only the 2 1/2 months.  Dude ain't Klay Thompson

[RedDawg#8]

Right now, everyone under contract is a keeper (except for Bruno), and I see no need to get rid of them any time soon.

For the one's not under contract:

JC is keeper, whether or not we come to a deal, he is a keeper and will be loss if we cant agree to a contract.

Lou Will, He deserves to get whatever contract he wants from whoever wants to pay him, but for us, he has to accept a vet min. deal or we will have to move on. His voice is the 2nd most important after Solo. But our resources have to go elsewhere.

Solo, I want him in the locker room. Don't want to have to play him, but I need his voice back.

Snell, love what he did when we were decimated with injury. We don't win 41 games without him. His contract is the biggest one we get to clear off the books. Thanks for your service.

Dunn, if he opts in, we could use him as that "Dawg" Solo said we were missing. Won't miss him if he decides to opt out.

[Final_quest]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

He obviously isn't that kind of shooter.  You can't just ignore 4 year of data and take only the 2 1/2 months.  Dude ain't Klay Thompson

He is hitting .388 for his career on 5.8 attempts.  
 

Last season was .438 on over 7 attempts.  That is close to Klay’s best season ever.  
 

Who on our team has had better numbers for their career with comparable volume?  

[RandomFan]

18 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

You think we would go with a rookie as our primary back up point guard?

 

53 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

11. Backup PG: whoever it ends up being. It could be #20, but I highly doubt we're gonna go into a title contending season with a #20 rookie as our primary backup PG option. If we get someone we really like for this spot at #20, then bringing back Lou for a 1 year stop-gap season makes sense. Or it could be a higher profile vet like D. Rose or McConnell, possibly still with a #20 rookie behind him. Again I think the draft will influence this. If we don't draft for this spot, then we need to spend some money on a decent backup on a 2 or 3 year contract, someone we can keep around a few years. 

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

He is hitting .388 for his career on 5.8 attempts.  
 

Last season was .438 on over 7 attempts.  That is close to Klay’s best season ever.  
 

Who on our team has had better numbers for their career with comparable volume?  

He isn't Klay Thompson otherwise he would have all star next to his name.  Plus you guys get too hung up over 3 point shots.  It is a low percentage shot that comes and goes.  Defense and easy shot creation is the name of the game.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

So you are paying a guy who has averaged 20 plus minutes per game for his career 5 mil not to play but once a month?  You Think Lou want to come back and not play?

He's not going to play once a month.  There's ways to get Lou in the game.  He just won't get 20 minutes a game.  If Lou is expecting that, he'll have to go somewhere else.

If he wants a shot to win a chip, we are as good of a place as any, for him to sign with.

[JeffS17]

Lou will get minutes if he signs with us, regardless of who the other PG we acquire is.  This offseason is another shortened one (much much shorter for us making it to the ECF) and you know Emory is going to have our guys missing every 5th game to let nagging injuries heal up so we're healthy come playoffs.

[Peoriabird]

12 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Lou will get minutes if he signs with us, regardless of who the other PG we acquire is.  This offseason is another shortened one (much much shorter for us making it to the ECF) and you know Emory is going to have our guys missing every 5th game to let nagging injuries heal up so we're healthy come playoffs.

I don't know.  the numbers just don't add up.  Trae misses very few games...less than 8 per season.  I don't think we need to spend what little resources we have on multiple vet. back up point guards. And we certainly don't need to sign multiple vet. point guard and then draft another in the 1st round.  The Hawks are small and that is what needs to be addressed not the team's strength.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

13 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Lou will get minutes if he signs with us, regardless of who the other PG we acquire is.  This offseason is another shortened one (much much shorter for us making it to the ECF) and you know Emory is going to have our guys missing every 5th game to let nagging injuries heal up so we're healthy come playoffs.

This will definitely be the case if our winning percentage is close to or above how we finished the regular season under Nate.

( .710 winning percentage = 58 wins )

Trae missed 9 games last season.  In a full 82 game season, I could see Trae missing 5 - 8 games, if he simply just has minor injuries or if the Hawks wanted to practice some "load management".

 

Anytime a guard is out ( point or shooting guard ), Lou's minutes will be extended, much like how Solo played anytime one of our SFs or PFs were out.  And this includes starters and the main backup.

[Final_quest]

21 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

He isn't Klay Thompson otherwise he would have all star next to his name.  Plus you guys get too hung up over 3 point shots.  It is a low percentage shot that comes and goes.  Defense and easy shot creation is the name of the game.

Listen.  My only point is if you are going to bring in career numbers, none of our wings have had numbers comparable to Bogi.  Until Cam Reddish starts hitting close to 40%, he's at 30% for his short career, we need a guy who can shoot like Bogi has statistically demonstrated he can for his entire career.  

When you brought up Klay Thompson, I only pointed out that he came close to matching Klay's best year as a 3 point shooter.  He's not Klay Thompson, but he's the closest thing we got.  Especially since no one is even advocating for bringing in another guy. 

I want to see if Bogi can come close to his numbers from last year.  If he can hit at 40% on 7 attempts a game, why trade him?  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

8 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I don't know.  the numbers just don't add up.  Trae misses very few games...less than 8 per season.  I don't think we need to spend what little resources we have on multiple vet. back up point guards. And we certainly don't need to sign multiple vet. point guard and then draft another in the 1st round.  The Hawks are small and that is what needs to be addressed not the team's strength.

 

I would agree with you, if the team didn't have a tendency to collapse every time Trae came off the floor.  Even under Nate, the bench was unreliable in critical moments.  And a lot of that had to do with the PG not being a facilitator, but looking for his own shot.  If his shot was falling, we were good.  If it didn't, the offense struggled mightily.

As I said last week, if we're going to get a big, I want an IMPACT big.  And more than likely, we'll have to trade for a player like that.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Listen.  My only point is if you are going to bring in career numbers, none of our wings have had numbers comparable to Bogi.  Until Cam Reddish starts hitting close to 40%, he's at 30% for his short career, we need a guy who can shoot like Bogi has statistically demonstrated he can for his entire career.  

When you brought up Klay Thompson, I only pointed out that he came close to matching Klay's best year as a 3 point shooter.  He's not Klay Thompson, but he's the closest thing we got.  Especially since no one is even advocating for bringing in another guy. 

I want to see if Bogi can come close to his numbers from last year.  If he can hit at 40% on 7 attempts a game, why trade him?  

 

I agree with this.

I think we all would like to see Cam and De'Andre take their "rightful" spots in the lineup as starters.

And while both are potentially more skilled than Bogi, we can't say that they're better shooters than him.  And that's especially true with Cam, who has been injured, but also extremely up and down as a player.

I'm not for trading Bogi at this moment.  His shooting is definitely a need for this team.

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Listen.  My only point is if you are going to bring in career numbers, none of our wings have had numbers comparable to Bogi.  Until Cam Reddish starts hitting close to 40%, he's at 30% for his short career, we need a guy who can shoot like Bogi has statistically demonstrated he can for his entire career.  

When you brought up Klay Thompson, I only pointed out that he came close to matching Klay's best year as a 3 point shooter.  He's not Klay Thompson, but he's the closest thing we got.  Especially since no one is even advocating for bringing in another guy. 

I want to see if Bogi can come close to his numbers from last year.  If he can hit at 40% on 7 attempts a game, why trade him?  

Why do y'all act like wins and losses depend on Bogi shooting 40% from 3.  They don't.  The fallacy on this message board that Bogi is so import to this team's success.  That and the only way Cam can impact winning is by making 40% of his 3's

[Final_quest]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Why do y'all act like wins and losses depend on Bogi shooting 40% from 3.  They don't.  The fallacy on this message board that Bogi is so import to this team's success.  That and the only way Cam can impact winning is by making 40% of his 3's

Have you been following the NBA recently?  Elite three point shooters are essential for winning.  

Follow the wins and losses, then.  Bogi comes back from injury and we win with Reddish and Hunter out.  Bogi is out and we have a losing record.  
We’re not gonna win with Hunter and Reddish if they can only hit 32% of their threes.  Especially if no one on the bench can shoot either.  

 

[Peoriabird]

Just now, Final_quest said:

Have you been following the NBA recently?  Elite three point shooters are essential for winning.  

Follow the wins and losses, then.  Bogi comes back from injury and we win with Reddish and Hunter out.  Bogi is out and we have a losing record.  
We’re not gonna win with Hunter and Reddish if they can only hit 32% of their threes.  Especially if no one on the bench can shoot either.  

 

Well guess what happened in the playoffs.  The Hawks won 3 games in the playoff where Bogi did not even hit one 3

[Final_quest]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Well guess what happened in the playoffs.  The Hawks won 3 games in the playoff where Bogi did not even hit one 3

Great.  So cherry pick three games and ignore all the other months of games.  

We won games with Trae playing bad, too.  Would you want to trade him?