Hawks draft pick grades (Jalen & Sharife)

[Peoriabird]

13 minutes ago, Sothron said:

He barely shot the 3 and was clearly hesitant to shoot from outside. His percentage is far too small a sample to draw upon to conclude he'd shoot like that in the NBA. 

That being said we clearly took BPA at #20 and if Jalen applies himself to his game we could look back at this in two years as a runaway grand slam pick just like Collins was at #18.

Right!! So I can't understand why there was a conclusion drawn at all. And I don't want to hear about anyone's high school stats

[AHF]

38 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Right!! So I can't understand why there was a conclusion drawn at all. And I don't want to hear about anyone's high school stats

Scouts are paid to assess a player's ability.  They have watched (or reporters have gotten feedback from scouts/personnel execs who watched) his high school and college tape and his pro workouts and view his jumper as a weak point today.  Nothing more complicated than that.  

[swanlee]

We filled some of our biggest needs like a great passing backup PG, got 2 lottery talented players, and did not have to trade anyone

Easy A+

 

 

[Spud2nique]

Took me a while but I have them both A’s. Neither was on ANY of my boards at all. I didn’t even scout Jalen closely until we picked him. He was supposed to be a top 12 or 14 pick so BPA we get an A+ there. Okongwu is hurt till February so that’s drafting for need as well (2 birds one stone) A+. 

Jalen: A+
 

Round 2. We didn’t trade up or down stood pat and took a player who was supposed to go 20( earlier in some mocks) to 35, we got him at 48. BPA A+. We needed a 2nd and 3rd string point guard. Again 2 birds one stone. A+
 

Sharife: A+
 

 

[marco102]

I was listening to a podcast on Jalen today.  I was surprised to hear that in catch and shoot attempts (2 &3's) he was in the 99th percentile for college players by shooting 59%.  He has a significant amount of work to do off the dribble, but the first year or two if he can hit spot up shots, he'll get more playing time.

Sharife - He shot the ball much better in the EBYL from three he was 20 of 57 or 35%.  That's respectable enough to make teams guard you and if a team is forced to guard him on the perimeter, it'll open up so much of his game. 

A's for both these guys.

[Diesel]

To me.. Jalen is not an A+ Or an A.  He's more like a C.   He's an experiment.   

[nathan2331]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

To me.. Jalen is not an A+ Or an A.  He's more like a C.   He's an experiment.   

I didn't have Jalen Johnson on my radar, but he's no more of an experiment than any other prospect we could have drafted. He does a lot of things that will allow him to contribute when given minutes. Who would have rather seen the Hawks draft?

[Gray Mule]

Opinions on our draft picks are all over.  

At #20, Hawks chose Jalen Johnson.  Some see him as a head case.  They believe that is the reason he fell to #20.  Some one said we are going to be happy with how great he is as an athlete.  Others have said he isn't at all.  I've seen him rated as A and C or D.  

At #48, Hawks chose Sharife Cooper.  Why did he fall?  Some reason that he was drafted too high.  They just can't believe that he can be as good as some of us believe.  That he will be a G League player all season and some believe he will play himself into the #2 PG for the Hawks.

Will these two be on the Hawks or on the Skyhawks.  Will we find out that we get an A for this draft?  Or, as some have posted, are these two good but not nearly as great as some believe?

I trust Travis to know what he's doing.  So far, he's shown me that he is worthy of my trust.  However, no one is perfect and he could be due for a dud.  I hope not.  I believe they are both rated as A+ picks.

[thecampster]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

To me.. Jalen is not an A+ Or an A.  He's more like a C.   He's an experiment.   

I get your grade. I think its 100% wrong but I get it.  Jalen is (IMHO) the best prospect in the draft. I was so sure he going top 10 despite the negative press, I forgot he was on the board. Revisit your thoughts after summer league.

 

He is just too strong for these other 19 year olds he's going to be going up against.

[AHF]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

To me.. Jalen is not an A+ Or an A.  He's more like a C.   He's an experiment.   

I like the word gamble over experiment.  High upside, significant risk.  Experiment to me is more like trying Boris Diaw at PF/C or the early stretch bigs.  Ie, guys who don’t fit the mold for their positions.  I’m not so much seeing novel issues with fit as much as lots of unknowns which can mean great variance but the nice thing is he went from a top 10 guy in his class to lower due to his limited playing time the last two years but still put up some nice production when he did play.  

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

I like the word gamble over experiment.  High upside, significant risk.  Experiment to me is more like trying Boris Diaw at PF/C or the early stretch bigs.  Ie, guys who don’t fit the mold for their positions.  I’m not so much seeing novel issues with fit as much as lots of unknowns which can mean great variance but the nice thing is he went from a top 10 guy in his class to lower due to his limited playing time the last two years but still put up some nice production when he did play.  

Most of that production is terribly skewed as he was playing hurt.  The 2 games he wasn't hurt were NBA stat lines of 20+/15+/7.

The foot is the one thing that bothers me and that it wasn't disclosed what the foot issue was.

 

[kg01]

8 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

I didn't have Jalen Johnson on my radar, but he's no more of an experiment than any other prospect we could have drafted. He does a lot of things that will allow him to contribute when given minutes. Who would have rather seen the Hawks draft?

I didn't have him on my radar and wasn't happy with the pick at the time.  What I had to remember is this pick was never supposed to play in the short term, so a project is fine.

This kid is probably the best project/prospect so I got no issue with the pick.

All due respect to diesel but a C grade shows a bit of a lack of perspective.

[sturt]

More fodder to chew on...

 

If we kept the #20, it was always going to be the case that whoever we picked was going to be spending significant (and probably more) time in the Gateway Center at College Park. The minutes in State Farm just aren't going to be there to develop someone.

 

 

 

[Diesel]

9 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

I didn't have Jalen Johnson on my radar, but he's no more of an experiment than any other prospect we could have drafted. He does a lot of things that will allow him to contribute when given minutes. Who would have rather seen the Hawks draft?

The problem is that he dropped out of the Duke program after not looking so good there.   He did the same thing at the IMG academy during his senior year.  Let's think about it.  He leaves his high school to go to the famed IMG academy. Doesn't play a game for them, gets fed up with the coaching staff and goes back to his high school.  At Duke, he gets injured... Comes off of Injury puts up decent numbers... but drops out. 

Here's what I see.  He has high status from his high school years and he was afraid that a losing season at Duke would lower his status.   He's not a competitor... he's a primadonna.

C.

 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

I get your grade. I think its 100% wrong but I get it.  Jalen is (IMHO) the best prospect in the draft. I was so sure he going top 10 despite the negative press, I forgot he was on the board. Revisit your thoughts after summer league.

 

He is just too strong for these other 19 year olds he's going to be going up against.

You can have all the tools but not the mental or the toughness.  This guy may be like Josh Smith with no hops.   A primadonna head case. 

 

[kg01]

@Diesel, I had the exact same concerns but I read someone's rundown and it made me feel better.  Basically injury caused him to leave IMG and Duke, not necessarily prima donna-ness.

I think there's enough there to support being skeptical.  But I think you're taking it to another level.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I like the word gamble over experiment.  High upside, significant risk.  Experiment to me is more like trying Boris Diaw at PF/C or the early stretch bigs.  Ie, guys who don’t fit the mold for their positions.  I’m not so much seeing novel issues with fit as much as lots of unknowns which can mean great variance but the nice thing is he went from a top 10 guy in his class to lower due to his limited playing time the last two years but still put up some nice production when he did play.  

2020-21 Game Log Table

Rk	Date	School		Opponent	Type		GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	2P	2PA	2P%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	2020-11-28	Duke		Coppin State	REG	W	1	35	8	8	1.000	7	7	1.000	1	1	1.000	2	2	1.000	4	15	19	5	0	4	7	2	19
2	2020-12-01	Duke		Michigan State	REG	L	1	22	4	11	.364	4	9	.444	0	2	.000	3	6	.500	0	4	4	1	1	2	1	2	11
3	2020-12-04	Duke		Bellarmine	REG	W	1	15	4	6	.667	3	3	1.000	1	3	.333	0	0		0	3	3	0	1	0	4	3	9
4	2020-12-08	Duke		Illinois	REG	L	1	23	3	10	.300	2	7	.286	1	3	.333	0	2	.000	2	5	7	1	2	2	1	3	7
5	2021-01-12	Duke	@	Virginia Tech	REG	L	0	4	1	1	1.000	1	1	1.000	0	0		0	0		0	0	0	1	0	0	0	1	2
6	2021-01-19	Duke	@	Pitt	REG	L	0	33	8	15	.533	7	14	.500	1	1	1.000	7	10	.700	6	10	16	7	2	4	0	5	24
7	2021-01-23	Duke	@	Louisville	REG	L	1	21	4	8	.500	4	6	.667	0	2	.000	1	2	.500	1	3	4	0	0	0	6	4	9
8	2021-01-26	Duke		Georgia Tech	REG	W	1	24	7	11	.636	7	10	.700	0	1	.000	4	6	.667	0	6	6	2	3	2	3	2	18
9	2021-01-30	Duke		Clemson	REG	W	1	28	3	7	.429	3	7	.429	0	0		3	4	.750	3	5	8	5	2	0	1	0	9
10	2021-02-01	Duke	@	Miami (FL)	REG	L	1	26	6	12	.500	6	11	.545	0	1	.000	1	1	1.000	2	5	7	2	1	0	4	2	13
11	2021-02-06	Duke		UNC	REG	L	0	24	6	12	.500	4	10	.400	2	2	1.000	0	0		2	3	5	5	1	1	2	3	14
12	2021-02-09	Duke		Notre Dame	REG	L	0	15	3	6	.500	1	4	.250	2	2	1.000	0	0		0	0	0	0	1	1	3	2	8
13	2021-02-13	Duke	@	NC State	REG	W	0	8	0	2	.000	0	2	.000	0	0		3	5	.600	0	0	0	0	1	0	1	0	3
	13 Games						8	278	57	109	.523	49	91	.538	8	18	.444	24	38	.632	20	59	79	29	15	16	33	29	146

Provided by CBB at Sports Reference: View Original Table
Generated 8/2/2021.

against every competitive team... he flowers.

If he would have finished out his season with Duke... and his averages remained the same or even dropped, would he still be top 10?

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

If he would have finished out his season with Duke... and his averages remained the same or even dropped, would he still be top 10?

You know college averages don't matter as much.  Raw tools would've remained the same.

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

@Diesel, I had the exact same concerns but I read someone's rundown and it made me feel better.  Basically injury caused him to leave IMG and Duke, not necessarily prima donna-ness.

I think there's enough there to support being skeptical.  But I think you're taking it to another level.

If it's the foot injury... then we should be concerned about that.  But he still doesn't impress me against competition.  As someone said, with his size, he should be dominant.  but he didnt' dominate any of the top teams.   We won't be playing Copin State or Pitt. 

 

[kg01]

Just now, Diesel said:

If it's the foot injury... then we should be concerned about that.  But he still doesn't impress me against competition.  As someone said, with his size, he should be dominant.  but he didnt' dominate any of the top teams.   We won't be playing Copin State or Pitt. 

 

I think it's reasonable to have questions about a foot injury.  Again, it was one of my concerns and I find it odd that no one has talked about it.

But, again, these are just reasonable concerns.  Not reasons to hate the pick as you seem to.

Why was he not dominant?  Eh, we'll see how he fares.  Again, this is a developmental prospect selected at 20.  If he had dominated, he would've been selected higher.

Don't make me do it, dies ... ah, you made me do it ... Giannis wasn't exactly "dominant" in that subleague he played in before getting drafted.  Let's just see how the dude pans out.

I think we can absorb an "L" picking at 20, if it comes to that.