The Next Move.

[Diesel]

It's almost written...

Our next move will be Gallo + Bogo, Cam, Hunter, or Huerter or a combo for a Star Player... Somebody that has been to an allstar game. 

Here's an example. 

 

I think LAC has given up.  With Kawhi out for the season and windows closing.. they may be having a moving on sale.

Gallo+ Bogo + Picks for PG13...

or something like that.. that brings in a legitimate Allstar. 

 

[sturt]

[kg01]

First, as a disclaimer, I don't think this is happening because I don't think anyone will come available who's worth that.

But, just for fun, let's list out who could conceivably pop loose this season ..

Simmons (PHI) - well, duh.  I think he's actually good enough to take a team to a next level.  However, the 'when' depends on when he accepts the mental help.  And 'when' he accepts he's not a pg.

Lilllllllard (POR) - I know a lotta folks still fall for his Kemba act but I see him for what he is .. Kemba 2.0, aw dang I spoiled it.

Beal (WAS) - EZPass Lane.  If he accepts the role as the 'Zards centerpiece, that tells me (again) he's all about the stat$ not the winz.

Mitchell (UTA) - Interesting although he seems to still be into all that Jazz - which, if we're being honest, won't see the heights they reached last reg season.  Their playoff choke job should be more of a 'story'.  They lost to a Kawhi-less Clippers team that's known for chokin' their dang selves.

Porter, Jr. (DEN) - An interesting one.  I think the Nuggs will see a fall this year with their coach continuing to player-blame the whole way.  He goes to that well way too much and I expect Porter to draw his ire.

Towns (MIN) - will he get tired of the losing?  If he's a competitor, he should've already grown tired of 'Sota's act.

Siakim (TOR) - Eh, not a "star" and all he does post-Kawhi is keep proving that out.

Lavine (CHI) - I'm done bashing the guy.  He seemed to take a step last season.  This could be one to watch out for.  Shocking to hear that from me, I know.

Grant (DET) - Eh, he's aiight but I think in a winning role his numbers are much less poppy than this past season.

That's pretty much it, as far as I can see it.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

Well, I wouldn't say that he has developed Gallo or Bogo.   However, Cam, Huerter, Hunter... may just be the economics.   All of these guys will be looking at Pay days.   If Gallo + One can be moved for a bonafide allstar I think it's more like an offer you can't refuse.   I think the economics will become very dicey when Hunter goes up.  Let's say we extend Huerter to something like 36 Million over the next 4.   Just saying.   Even with the expected dropouts of CC and Gallo.. it's going to be hard to give Hunter what he is due and keep everybody.   Hunter is probably the best 2 way player we have.   It would be easier to move one of these deals...just so the economics can work out. 

We build all of this star power.. but at some point, they have to leave the rookie contract nest. 

 

 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

First, as a disclaimer, I don't think this is happening because I don't think anyone will come available who's worth that.

But, just for fun, let's list out who could conceivably pop loose this season ..

Simmons (PHI) - well, duh.  I think he's actually good enough to take a team to a next level.  However, the 'when' depends on when he accepts the mental help.  And 'when' he accepts he's not a pg.

Lilllllllard (POR) - I know a lotta folks still fall for his Kemba act but I see him for what he is .. Kemba 2.0, aw dang I spoiled it.

Beal (WAS) - EZPass Lane.  If he accepts the role as the 'Zards centerpiece, that tells me (again) he's all about the stat$ not the winz.

Mitchell (UTA) - Interesting although he seems to still be into all that Jazz - which, if we're being honest, won't see the heights they reached last reg season.  Their playoff choke job should be more of a 'story'.  They lost to a Kawhi-less Clippers team that's known for chokin' their dang selves.

Porter, Jr. (DEN) - An interesting one.  I think the Nuggs will see a fall this year with their coach continuing to player-blame the whole way.  He goes to that well way too much and I expect Porter to draw his ire.

Towns (MIN) - will he get tired of the losing?  If he's a competitor, he should've already grown tired of 'Sota's act.

Siakim (TOR) - Eh, not a "star" and all he does post-Kawhi is keep proving that out.

Lavine (CHI) - I'm done bashing the guy.  He seemed to take a step last season.  This could be one to watch out for.  Shocking to hear that from me, I know.

Grant (DET) - Eh, he's aiight but I think in a winning role his numbers are much less poppy than this past season.

That's pretty much it, as far as I can see it.

 

Simmons - I would take him. 

Lillard - i agree with you. 

Beal - Pass Also.

Mitchell - He will retire in Utah.   They are not letting him go. 

Porter Jr...  Nah.

Towns -No.

Siakim - Interesting. 

Lavine - He's now somebody that Chicago would not move.

Gtant - No.

PG13 - Don't think that this can't happen.   Gallo, Bogo, and Cam with a first will get him here.   I would hate to try to face a Hawks team with Hunter and PG13 on the wings and OO in the middle.   We would be a defensive nightmare.

Bam - Sounds silly.. for next season but Miami is one of those teams that will implode after a bad playoffs.

Luka - After Kidd, he will probably force his way out... but I say.... NO WAY. 

SGA-OKC... There's a team younger than ours that will have draft picks until 2030. But they won't give him up. 

I want no one from Boston. 

 

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

 

Simmons - I would take him. 

Lillard - i agree with you. 

Beal - Pass Also.

Mitchell - He will retire in Utah.   They are not letting him go. 

Porter Jr...  Nah.

Towns -No.

Siakim - Interesting. 

Lavine - He's now somebody that Chicago would not move.

Gtant - No.

PG13 - Don't think that this can't happen.   Gallo, Bogo, and Cam with a first will get him here.   I would hate to try to face a Hawks team with Hunter and PG13 on the wings and OO in the middle.   We would be a defensive nightmare.

Bam - Sounds silly.. for next season but Miami is one of those teams that will implode after a bad playoffs.

Luka - After Kidd, he will probably force his way out... but I say.... NO WAY. 

SGA-OKC... There's a team younger than ours that will have draft picks until 2030. But they won't give him up. 

I want no one from Boston. 

 

George isn't a leader so I wouldn't want him coming in tryna assert himself and mess up team chemistry.

I think DAL may have signed Loouka's proverbial death certificate with the Kidd hiring.  Not that he'll ask out but that their team is not likely to contend for years now.  Not that they were anyway, but Kidd assures it.

Bam I think is in the Siakim category.  Not a 1 or 2 but is billed as one.

I want to see SGA this year.  His first as the unquestioned #1.  I wanna see him 'carry' as Trae has since day 1.  Many think he can.  I want to see it.  And, no, he doesn't get the 'OKC is tanking' excuse if they lose.  Trae didn't.

[sillent]

42 minutes ago, Diesel said:

It's almost written...

Our next move will be Gallo + Bogo, Cam, Hunter, or Huerter or a combo for a Star Player... Somebody that has been to an allstar game. 

Here's an example. 

 

I think LAC has given up.  With Kawhi out for the season and windows closing.. they may be having a moving on sale.

Gallo+ Bogo + Picks for PG13...

or something like that.. that brings in a legitimate Allstar. 

 

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Altering the course more than likely may not even work in our favor.

One wrong splashy move could see all of our current core eventually walking out the door possibly to even team up with each other elsewhere.

Ala (OKC), the Pacers with Kawhi & George (I definitely know Dre and Cam love being on the same squad). One wrong move could make it all tumble down. I hate to take another teams slogan but trust the process.

Edited August 17, 2021 by sillent

[sillent]

26 minutes ago, kg01 said:

First, as a disclaimer, I don't think this is happening because I don't think anyone will come available who's worth that.

But, just for fun, let's list out who could conceivably pop loose this season ..

Simmons (PHI) - well, duh.  I think he's actually good enough to take a team to a next level.  However, the 'when' depends on when he accepts the mental help.  And 'when' he accepts he's not a pg.

Lilllllllard (POR) - I know a lotta folks still fall for his Kemba act but I see him for what he is .. Kemba 2.0, aw dang I spoiled it.

Beal (WAS) - EZPass Lane.  If he accepts the role as the 'Zards centerpiece, that tells me (again) he's all about the stat$ not the winz.

Mitchell (UTA) - Interesting although he seems to still be into all that Jazz - which, if we're being honest, won't see the heights they reached last reg season.  Their playoff choke job should be more of a 'story'.  They lost to a Kawhi-less Clippers team that's known for chokin' their dang selves.

Porter, Jr. (DEN) - An interesting one.  I think the Nuggs will see a fall this year with their coach continuing to player-blame the whole way.  He goes to that well way too much and I expect Porter to draw his ire.

Towns (MIN) - will he get tired of the losing?  If he's a competitor, he should've already grown tired of 'Sota's act.

Siakim (TOR) - Eh, not a "star" and all he does post-Kawhi is keep proving that out.

Lavine (CHI) - I'm done bashing the guy.  He seemed to take a step last season.  This could be one to watch out for.  Shocking to hear that from me, I know.

Grant (DET) - Eh, he's aiight but I think in a winning role his numbers are much less poppy than this past season.

That's pretty much it, as far as I can see it.

Clear case of believing the grass is greener on the other side.

Which one of those players truly are a clear advantage over what we have?

Which one of those players have pushed their team over the edge and won a chip?

I wouldn't take Pascal Siacam over JC,OO,JJ and I doubt he'd play a role like Gallo off the bench.

Wouldn't trade Simmons for Cam, Dre, Huerter or Bogi for that matter. More importantly JJ can be a Ben Simmons with a J so he could be redundant.

I wouldn't take an aging Dame over Trae.

There's a reason Minny is at the bottom of the list season after season. As talented as KAT is he's puddy in the paint more often than not on the defensive end. That's the last quality you want out of a big man.

I'm not going to go down the list but it's a list full of one sided players and many are undersized and haven't accomplished anything big.

We have lengthy 2way players that are capable on both ends so it would be a subtraction move in my opinion.

Donovan Mitchell is the only player that has the youth and extra It factor to me and again he is undersized. We all know Trae's deficiencies which is why wings with the length of Cam and Dre are so important.

It's baffling to me but I can almost guarantee that people will be wishing they had our players over the players above in a few yrs.

 

[niremetal]

The one guy who conceivably could become available that I'd want is Sabonis. The Turner / Sabonis experiment in Indy has to end at some point, and Sabonis is the one who is likely to draw the better assets.

I think Sabonis would be an absolutely perfect complement to Trae offensively (especially if his deep ball continues to improve, which it should).  His passing and scoring ability in the post would give us dimensions to our game that we just don't have now. He is also one of the best big men in the game in handling the rock.

His defense is underrated--he's not a weakside/help rim protector like Capela, but he plays solid on-ball defense on both 4s and 5s and has dramatically improved in terms of moving his feet well enough to not be toast when he switches onto wings.

And of course, he's one of the best rebounders in the game already.

I think a Gallo/{Huerter or Reddish}/1st package would get the job done if Indiana looks destined to fall short of a guaranteed playoff spot this year, which I expect them to given that their hope for improvement basically rests on Chris Duarte having a ROTY campaign and Carlisle finding a way to squeeze more out of the roster. Alternatively, we could move Capela instead of Gallo, but that would certainly involve bringing in a third team.

At the very least, if we were to trade for Sabonis, we'd then have to move either Capela (who should be super easy to move given his skill and 2023 free agency) or Collins next offseason. I think Sabonis actually would work well alongside either in the frontcourt *if* he improves his deep ball to Collins-like levels. For now, I think the fit would be better with Collins, who I think could step up his weakside D if that's what we asked of him.

I know lots of people hate on Sabonis, but I think he's actually one of the more underrated players in the league, and would give us the most dynamic offense in the East, if not the whole league. We'd stay elite at rebounding and the defensive drop-off would be less than folks think (and more than offset by the huge offensive boost he'd give us).

Anyway, that's the only vaguely plausible consolidation trade out there that I like.

Edited August 17, 2021 by niremetal

[kg01]

7 hours ago, sillent said:

It's baffling to me but I can almost guarantee that people will be wishing they had our players over the players above in a few yrs.

 

That's kinda my point, in case it wasn't clear.

I dont think I'd prefer any of them dudes.  Maybe Lavine but thats a weak 'maybe'.

[bird_dirt]

I'd keep my eye on Ingram's availability over the next year, and Zion's in the next 18 months to 3 years. 

Pelicans always in a perpetual rebuild cycle.

 

[sturt]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

I wouldn't say that he has developed Gallo or Bogo

Right. No one would.

The model from his previous experience is to (a) start developing a core from the draft, and then, (b) to supplement that with vets.

Gallo and BogBog represent the second part of that.

And/but just as Iggy came and went... and a few less notable than him... so, likely, are Gallo and BogBog eventually.

 

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

All of these guys will be looking at Pay days.

Which player does that not apply to... whether you drafted them, or whether you got them in FA, or whether you acquired them in trade, they're all going to have their current contract end at some point within a year or a few years.

So, the point from a roster management point of view is always to be getting the most talent for the least cost... and to forfeit the benefit of your rookie scale contracts on your payroll runs counter to that goal. So, you don't give up rookie scale contracts for upwardly-bound high-ceiling players just because some day their contracts end. Again--all contracts end eventually.

And veteran contracts are, practically by definition, overpays in terms of talent-per-dollar until you get up to the stratosphere of players who have proven themselves the truly elite, capable of putting a team on their shoulders and taking them to the top of the mountain... those guys who would be paid more if not for the limitations mandated by max contracts.

 

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

If Gallo + One can be moved for a bonafide allstar I think it's more like an offer you can't refuse.

Won't say no, but won't say yes... there are "bona fide all stars" who plausibly could help more than Gallo plus the one other, but without naming the all star and the one other, who's to say? There's always a talent side and a contract side to be evaluated in any deal. So, too many variables there to have any substantive discussion.

 

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

I think the economics will become very dicey when Hunter goes up.

We have two seasons before that happens. Why the strong desire to focus on 2023-24 when, truly, empirically, my most bestest chance to win a championship is this and next season?... and when 2023-24 gets here, that mentality would have us focus on 2025-26 instead of 2023-24?.... at some point, to get the desired result, the focus has to become the here and now.

So, yes, if that deal emerges that would get you an elite... not just an overpaid vet contract who has an ASG appearance on his resume', but someone capable of taking you to the top... if the price makes sense, go get him.

At present, I don't have a lot of confidence that we can do better than what we already have, and given the results of 2020-21, it strikes me that there is wisdom in patience to let more of our young players continue to assert themselves and demonstrate where their true ceiling lies...

As said in the thread I started yesterday, the aggregate ceilings on this current roster are flat-out AMAZING to behold. Eventually, some probably prove that their ceilings are lower. But to prematurely judge that, and to make deals that dispatch several of them, and to find out that all these players go to other teams and immediately excel when they could have been continuing to grow and excel beside each other in a Hawks uni... that would be tragic... and instead of finally claiming a NBA Finals trophy, we would claim a laughingstock "grass is always greener" trophy.

 

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

just so the economics can work out

Forgive if I've missed it, but as far as I know, I remain the only poster who has taken the time to put our payroll for this and next season to an Excel worksheet and project what that actually looks like.

Thus... it feels to me, then, that a lot of the conjecture in this vein is painting with a broad brush, and... no offense to any single poster here, Deez or otherwise... not actually especially well-informed because it's not grounded in the details that naturally get assessed when you do that exercise.

The salary cap grows, and possibly exponentially given the projections on the next TV contract. Players like Gallo and BogBog and Capela might get overtaken by younger players, and then become trade bait for draft picks that can help restock the depth chart with more rookie scale contracts... or maybe, our younger player become too good, and the more prudent play is to deal them.

It's not that the concern for what our roster will look like in two years is irrelevant. It's that it's premature at this moment, failing that opportunity to acquire a truly elite player at a reasonable cost. It's not anything deserving of attention for now.

And that's because we very legitimately could have so much star power from within that it exceeds even what Schlenk enjoyed in his previous job, and we bring home ATL's first NBA trophy. Get that trophy, then we can assess how we stay at the top of the mountain.

 

 

 

[Diesel]

9 hours ago, kg01 said:

George isn't a leader so I wouldn't want him coming in tryna assert himself and mess up team chemistry.

I think DAL may have signed Loouka's proverbial death certificate with the Kidd hiring.  Not that he'll ask out but that their team is not likely to contend for years now.  Not that they were anyway, but Kidd assures it.

Bam I think is in the Siakim category.  Not a 1 or 2 but is billed as one.

I want to see SGA this year.  His first as the unquestioned #1.  I wanna see him 'carry' as Trae has since day 1.  Many think he can.  I want to see it.  And, no, he doesn't get the 'OKC is tanking' excuse if they lose.  Trae didn't.

 

I don't think George has tried to assert himself anywhere he has been.  Wouldn't do it in Indy.  Didn't do it in OKC.  Hasn't done it in LAC.  In Indy, the ear blower was more of a leader than he.  IN OKC, he followed Westbrook's lead.  IN LAC, he was happy that Kawhi was there.   I think he'd fit nicely under Trae's reign.  He could be our Iguodala. 

[Diesel]

9 hours ago, sillent said:

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Altering the course more than likely may not even work in our favor.

One wrong splashy move could see all of our current core eventually walking out the door possibly to even team up with each other elsewhere.

Ala (OKC), the Pacers with Kawhi & George (I definitely know Dre and Cam love being on the same squad). One wrong move could make it all tumble down. I hate to take another teams slogan but trust the process.

The Next Step is the Next Step.   The economics and the talent level will dictate what happens next.  It's not a process... we're there.   We have gone farther than the team with the process.   Now, either we can win with this or we have to look to get better.  I'm mister stay pat... but at the same time, when we have asessets that can be lost, we have to start considering what tweaks can we make to make us a whole lot better.   I see you talking strongly about our strength and depth in other threads.  Did you ever stop to think why teams don't remain this strong for long?  I mean...  OKC had Westbrook, KD, Harden, and Ibaka.  They also had Fisher and Perk.  Why couldn't they maintain??  Because once guys get to star status... playing the background and taking less money is not what they want to do.   Harden didn't want to come off the bench for the rest of his career.   Neither do Cam and Heurter.   That's why there were those Cam trade rumors this summer.  I don't think that was just conjecture.   I think Travis was looking at Deals and just didn't see anything that moved him.  But he knows... he has valuable talent on the bench.   It won't stay that way for long.   This year, he will let Dre and Cam continue to improve and show their stuff but by next season or maybe even by the deadline this year... moves will be made. 

 

[Gray Mule]

Patience grasshopper.  Hawks really need another great player to go along with Trae.  What we must remember, he may already be a Hawk.  So many of our current roster have as yet reached their apex.

Two new draft picks.  Truly needing to play and prove their value.  Others just now becoming very good.  Then we look at the others on our present roster.  How many "over the hill" players do we have?  Not many.

Check the grass here before going gaga over our neighbors field.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

OKC had Westbrook, KD, Harden, and Ibaka.  They also had Fisher and Perk.  Why couldn't they maintain??  Because once guys get to star status... playing the background and taking less money is not what they want to do.   Harden didn't want to come off the bench for the rest of his career. 

Our guys have to actually get there first.

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Patience grasshopper.  Hawks really need another great player to go along with Trae.  What we must remember, he may already be a Hawk.  So many of our current roster have as yet reached their apex.

Two new draft picks.  Truly needing to play and prove their value.  Others just now becoming very good.  Then we look at the others on our present roster.  How many "over the hill" players do we have?  Not many.

Check the grass here before going gaga over our neighbors field.

 

This statement is what I don't believe.   I don't believe in this big three syndrome that Lebron has created.   Lebron created this because he can't win on his own... Doesn't have the personality.   That's what Greek Freak was talking about.   Giannis said.. I could have went and joined a superteam but I believed in myself to know that I didn't need that.   

The same is true of Trae.  I believe if all Trae had was Solo, Hanno Mottalo, Kenny the Snake Norman, and Priest Lauterdale... he'd still find a way to win games...  Even if he had to do it by himself.  That's why we love Trae.   Fortunately, Travis has surrounded him with players that can hit shots and work with Trae.   I just tend to look at windows... and I don't see the Gallo and CC window staying the way that the are.  Fortunately, we have replacements for both of them... but that doesn't mean that we won't use them while they have value to get some better players. 

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Our guys have to actually get there first.

They are closer than you think. 

Not Harden/KD/Westbrook like but closer than you think. 

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

They are closer than you think. 

Not Harden/KD/Westbrook like but closer than you think. 

...and that maybe true but two of them (Hunter and Reddish) need to stay on the floor to actually prove it.  Hopefully they have as much success staying on the floor as Huerter did in year 3 after an injury riddled 2nd year.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, bird_dirt said:

I'd keep my eye on Ingram's availability over the next year, and Zion's in the next 18 months to 3 years. 

Pelicans always in a perpetual rebuild cycle.

 

I really hadn't considered Zion.. but why not...

I mean, if they don't get to the playoffs this year... he may want out.  It had to suck to see Jrue get a chip and you not make the playoffs... again.   But the real question is:

Would Zion be better for us than JC?

I don't know.....I like JC's shooting from distance.